Forum Rules on Spoilers

[masamuneehs]

Due to several incidents in the Naruto anime thread and a couple other things, a bunch of the staff have been raising the idea that Gotwoot's spoiler policy needs an overhaul. Lots of ideas were thrown around and we came up with a tentative addition for the rules section.

But not including you guys in the process doesn't really seem fair. So here it is, your chance to add input to Gotwoot's almighty rules. Please try to take this seriously.

Currently the rules regarding spoilers are:
11. No spoiling WHATSOEVER. Spoilers are to be kept to manga/open discussion threads, or PM's.

Additional rules for Anime Fanart forum:
1. No use or posting of images that contain spoilers: If the anime has not shown it, please do not use it in your artwork. If you are sharing a piece that includes spoilers, please link it, and warn the members. This rule applies to avatars, signatures, wallpapers, or any other fanart.

The thinking behind the overhaul is that the rules on spoilers are way too general and need to be really fleshed out in order to work properly. While the staff could just arbitrarily say "Spoiler" "Not a spoiler", it'd be in everyone's interests to set up rules that all the users could refer to. Hopefully this will also reduce the number of spoilers made up of "i didn't know you couldn't do ___" rationale.

So, here's what we came up with so far.
Gotwoot Forums Policy on Spoilers

No spoiling is allowed on this forum whatsoever. Spoiling is regarded as providing information that would be otherwise unknown to the anime-only watcher by a person that has acquired such information from outside sources, for example the manga.

Those posts and/or comments that would be regarded as spoilers are but not limited to:

• Anything which reveals the solution of a current problem or puzzle, thus denying the reader the pleasure of working out the correct answer.
  
  
• Anything which reveals future, un-seen as of yet plot elements, thus denying the reader the proper suspense when reading the book or watching the movie.
  
  
• Identifying whether a character is in/not in the manga, especially when the comment reveals whether a character will become important in the future of the anime.
  
  
• Any reference to a person, place, or thing that is either in the manga and/or not yet in the anime. If it is in the anime, it is a remark that makes it out to be something that has not been shown yet.
  
  
• Any reference to an unsubbed episode/chapter of an anime/manga.
  
  
• A remark or quote that identifies a member's post as a spoiler. You may take this to our private message system and inform the user and/or a moderator that he/she is spoiling. Bringing this information forward on the thread in question will grant you the same warning as the person doing the spoiling.
  
  
• Revealing the titles of upcoming arcs or episode titles. Some arc/episode titles may not reveal anything about the future of an anime, but some do, and it's just best not to name them in anime only sections.
  
  
• Spoilers in thread titles. Remember, even if your thread is in the manga section, it can still be seen from the frontpage. Therefore all thread titles should not have any info outside of the anime.
  
  
• Spoilers in Sigs/Avatars/Pics
  NO Spoiling in sigs or avatars. None. No posting visible pictures that serve as spoilers. Links to pics with spoilers are fine, so long as they're properly labeled and posted in permissible sections. This part applies especially to the Anime Fanart area.

In sum, a spoiler is:
Any form of information that has not yet been mentioned in the anime, regardless of source.

Any such form from an anime episode that has not yet been subbed (in english).

One gray area is discussing episode previews. There used to be rules against discussing episode previews in the Bleach and Naruto areas, but they were infrequently enforced and never really official. Input on this is especially wanted.

Personally I think that discussion of episode previews should always be allowed, so long as no manga reader uses his/her knowledge and tries to mess things up. We trust that most of you aren't that kind of asshole, and won't spoil for everyone else. But if you are, and we catch you, expect a ban, straight up.

Well, I've said more than my fair share. Discuss!

[samsonlonghair]

Hmm... I feel that this discussion may be (at least partly) my fault. I pointed out to a new user that his sig may violate the spoiler rule. Though I did it without mentioning anything speciffic that could give away future plot points, in hindsight I probably should have kept it to PM. I apologize if I've caused any problems.

[Kraco]

A remark or quote that identifies a member's post as a spoiler. You may take this to our private message system and inform the user and/or a moderator that he/she is spoiling. Bringing this information forward on the thread in question will grant you the same warning as the person doing the spoiling.

This is indeed very important.

What comes to previews, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to be discussed. They are parts of the released, subbed episodes. Maybe there are people who religiously never watch them (I don't watch them if I have the next episode already on my HD), but you can't please everybody. And besides, it's not like the preview normally would even be the focus of the discussion.

[Assassin]

im fine with preview discussion in the episode thread as well. Since its part of the subbed episode, all anime watchers have the chance to see it. If you dont want to thats you're choice, but then you can't really complain about being spoiled. That would be like skipping a part of teh episode and then bitching when someone talks about it.

[Honoko]

Is asking for spoiler tags too much? I feel like there was a discussion on this a while ago but I can't remember what was the reason for not having them.

Besides, spoiler is so relative. If half of GW watches an anime series, and the other half doesn't, is the info given out in subsequent discussions considered spoiler? I'm inclined to say no but it is a bit annoying when looking for a new series to watch and checking through the threads and accidentally reading what's gonna happen next. Personally, it doesn't bother me too much but maybe some rabid purist out there might think otherwise =P

[xDarkMaster]

Is asking for spoiler tags too much? I feel like there was a discussion on this a while ago but I can't remember what was the reason for not having them.

QFT. Spoiler tags could help with fanart spoilers. It could also help if people want to discuss previews or reference manga points.

[Kraco]

I don't have anything against spoiler tags if they are forbidden in episode discussion threads, and only allowed in, for example, the fanarts section. Otherwise with the rules now in place there's no need for spoiler tags, because spoilers aren't allowed. And it's bloody annoying to read discussion threads filled with spoiler tags, and you never know what's under them before you click.

Besides, spoiler is so relative. If half of GW watches an anime series, and the other half doesn't, is the info given out in subsequent discussions considered spoiler? I'm inclined to say no but it is a bit annoying when looking for a new series to watch and checking through the threads and accidentally reading what's gonna happen next.

It's a conscious risk to browse through the whole series discussion thread when looking for a new series. Normally the few first posts are enough to both tell what the series is all about and what are the reactions by the first viewers. Any longer than that down the thread, and logically thinking the only things you could learn are spoilers, and little else. What else could there even be? Aside from some strange details like "in episode # the graphics were really bad, but according to the preview they are normal in the next ep...". Such things don't really help with choosing a new series to watch.

[xDarkMaster]

[*]A remark or quote that identifies a member's post as a spoiler. You may take this to our private message system and inform the user and/or a moderator that he/she is spoiling. Bringing this information forward on the thread in question will grant you the same warning as the person doing the spoiling.

Is this a remark like - That is a spoiler, take it out? Or something like - OMG that's ______ who appears in episode __ and kills _____. Take out your spoiler ?

Either way, I am assuming the reason we can't tell them their post is spoiler is b/c it'll...prove it's a spoiler? If not, what is the reason?

[dragonrage]

Revealing the titles of upcoming arcs or episode titles. Some arc/episode titles may not reveal anything about the future of an anime, but some do, and it's just best not to name them in anime only sections.

This one I think is just rediculious. We have threads, populars threads at that in both the Bleach and Naruto anime section. Now I know as of late they have been unreliable, but it generates discussion and activity and it is a positive edition to the anime. Also I believe that no one minds about knowing the name of the title. The threads are labled properly, obviously stating that reading the title will give you some insight on what is yet to come. If you don't want to know just don't enter, it is simple as that.

Also the titles that are stated are not that far into the future of what is going to happen. And infact it might help a person decide on whether of not to waste there time, hope, bandwith on said episodes.

I know for a fact that if the "Upcoming Naruto title" thread is moved to the Naruto general Discussion, not only will the activity in the thread decrease but members are more likely to run across spoilers. Specifically thread names. I know that thread makers in that section are asked to label the thread so that nothing is really given away to an anime only member, but somethings just can't be avoided in some cases. If you want an example of this I will be happy to pm it to you just ask.

Besides that I think the other are reasonable in some cases.

edit grammar

[Kraco]

Yeah. There's no reason to remove or move those specific episode title threads. Nobody with a decent amount of sanity will be surprised to find upcoming episodes titles if he decides to enter such a thread. Maybe upcoming episode titles could be kept out of regular episode discussion threads. There's no damage in that.

Those specific threads could be understandable exceptions.

[Munsu]

There's no need for spoiler tags in anime discussions period. Those forums are to discuss fansubs, not manga and not raws. There's no need to refference manga points, why? Because we are not fucking discussing the manga here. If you can't backup your points with anime information, then don't even try to argue something.

@xDarkMaster:

Yes, that's the reasoning behind why you can identify someone's post as a spoiler. That's why there's a pm system, a report system, and IRC. Get in touch with a mod, tell them which post is a spoiler and they'll handle it. Also, pm'ing the member who posted the spoiler might help to remove the spoiler. Just don't identify it in the thread itself.

@dragonrage:

You are relatively new, so you don't know how these naruto anime watchers get by the hint of anything being spoiled. Those rules are not in placed because we mods wanted them, it was because there have been lots and lots of complaints in the past about them getting spoiled because of it. You've only arrived at the Filler Era, and no one cares about that, but once it gets back to the manga story you'll see how many of them don't want to know the title of the next episode, heck they didn't even want preview discussions.

Hmm... I feel that this discussion may be (at least partly) my fault. I pointed out to a new user that his sig may violate the spoiler rule. Though I did it without mentioning anything speciffic that could give away future plot points, in hindsight I probably should have kept it to PM. I apologize if I've caused any problems.

Didn't see your post, so no, it wasn't because of you. All of the things explained in the thread had been old rules, we are just spelling them out more clearly for people that don't seem to understand them, and to give us mods more leverage when we decide something is a spoiler.

But people, this is the most important part of masa's post:

but not limited to

So, don't think that because a certain situation wasn't discussed in the rules, but it's still of spoiler nature that you won't be punished for it. So people, don't be jackasses and try to find loopholes because you'll pay dearly.

Besides, spoiler is so relative. If half of GW watches an anime series, and the other half doesn't, is the info given out in subsequent discussions considered spoiler?

What do you mean, if I suddenly went to a Utawarerumono discussion and said something along the lines of "This reminds me of the FMA ending when Al died when he got his head chopped off"?

[masamuneehs]

to address some of the things quickly:

Spoiler tags: I'm all for them. As long as they're used in compliance with the rules though.

Honoko's point: It's almost impossible to encourage good discussion of all the animes w/o their own sections and not allow detailed info to be shared. Entering the last pages of discussion on a show that's towards (or reached) its end is a risk the reader has to consider.

Identifying someone else's post as a spoiler: We have several ways that you can bring a spoiler to the staff's attention, reporting the post, PMing the staff or PMing the person.

If, for example in the Naruto anime thread, before the Chuunin Exam arc starts, someone posts: "You think ____ is a worthless character? Just wait until you see how much ass he kicks in the Chuunin Exam!" (before the Chuunin Exam's been done in the anime)

And then someone says: "____ getting to the finals of the Chuunin Exam is a spoiler"

They are both obviously spoiling.

But if for example someone started specualting on what might happen in later episodes with: "Maybe ____ will become the next Kazekage"

And someone quotes that and says: "SPOILER!" Then obviously only the idiot posting second is the one doing the spoiling.

Upcoming episode titles can have spoilers in them, and you all know that. Currently the episode title topics in Bleach and Naruto are fine, because the material is all fillers, and you can't really spoil those unless you've been secretly drinking with the monkeys who write those scripts.

But why would we need to know the names of upcoming episodes after the shows get back on track? At that point the Upcoming Episode Titles thread WILL almost certainly be moved to Open Discussion, because any discussion about those episode titles will obviously contain manga references and spoilers.

Consider this: Showing the title of episode 95 of Naruto BEFORE anyone even knows who Tsunade is.
Also, the "Soul Society arc" being referenced early on in Bleach.

Right now we have those threads in the Naruto and Bleach anime sections because the shows are in a lull and people want to know what's happening without having to watch the episodes.

If lots of people feel like posting episode titles in the anime only sections should continue, then it'll happen. But if one of those episode titles or arc names is a spoiler, would you say just leave it there?

edit - goddamnit Budweineken beating me to the punch!
But I still think moving the upcoming episode titles thread from Naruto anime to Naruto Open Discussion is advisable. Heck, the Open Discussion section exists almost exactly for threads like that. What to do with the Bleach one is more debatable...

[Munsu]

edit - goddamnit Budweineken beating me to the punch!
But I still think moving the upcoming episode titles thread from Naruto anime to Naruto Open Discussion is advisable. Heck, the Open Discussion section exists almost exactly for threads like that. What to do with the Bleach one is more debatable...

Yeah, I edited my post, I think you're right after reading your post.

For the Bleach one, I say simply lock it up once the fillers end.

Those threads are really not needed once the fillers end, else why do you think both of those threads only popped up once the Fillers started? Because there was no need for them before and also because it was against the rules.

[xDarkMaster]

So the reason not to post that something is a spoiler is b/c it proves it a spoiler.

If I may say so, that is totally pointless. Assuming the person is actually spoiling and not speculating (Masa) then a person is supposed to PM them or a mod. Well, let's say someone goes Naruto kills the Fifth Hokage (obviously not true).

I PM the person and assuming he/she isn't a complete ass he/she removes the post. People thus know it was a spoiler.

I PM a mod, they remove it telling the person not to spoil again, people know it was a spoiler.

I post "That is a spoiler please remove it," (while not furthering spoiling) he removes the post, people know it was a spoiler. What's the difference?

[Munsu]

The difference is that only one or two people got affected by the spoiler, instead of everyone that reads the thread.

[xDarkMaster]

...no.

Assuming all this happens in about the same amount of time, I fail to see your logic. If one tells the spoiler to remove simply by going "Spoiler, remove" (with NO further spoiling or referencing of the spoiler) and he removes it, everyone that reads the thread would know there was a spoiler posted, but how would they know what the spoiler is?

[dragonrage]

@ Budweineken :

You have raised some very good and sound points. You're right I am new to actually posting on the forums and not just lurking (DrAgE). You're right about it being more useful during this filler arc. Seeing that no one really cares or more importantly no one knows for sure what is going too happen. But when/if the anime gets back to the manga storyline, manga readers would have the upper hand and speculation will turn into spoiling. So the discussion in the thread would be utterly useless since it would not be about theories but about leaking the plot of the episode. I do recall a few heated discussion; if you can call it that about spoiling stuff that preceed episode 135.

But I still think the thread should be allowed, no discussion though, I know that would make the thread boring, but it would still serve to satisfy the curiousity of the interested. After all it would just be basically relaying the information that other sites provide.

I would like to ask that the thread not be dealt with until the anime actually gets back on track, if ever.

I do agree that the title would only be allowed in that specific thread and nowhere else in the anime only section.

@ masamuneehs

I disagree, I would rather see the thread be locked than be moved. Plain and simple there are and there will be alot of spoiler titles in that section anyways it would do more harm than good for the members that are actually interested in the thread. But I guess that is the very reason why that warning under the title of that section exist.

But like I said I ask that all decisions concerning this thread be put off until the anime actually gets back on track, because as for now it serves a good purpose as it is.


Edit: I see that you have already decided. If and when the anime gets back on track lock them.

[Munsu]

@xDM

They wouldn't, but lets say there's a lag in action from a mod... Then all of you that know that it is a spoiler keep refferencing and identifying a single post as a spoiler then the chances of other members of the community reading it and becoming aware of it will increase exponentially. Otherwise, the post might have the chance of going unoticed to the great majority, and that's what we want. That's only one of several advantages of having that rule in place.

[xDarkMaster]

I see your point, although I still don't agree. You seem to think that I am saying a mod will remove the spoiler after reading the post saying it was a spoiler, while I am saying the person that posted the spoiler would remove it. If not, w/e.

Let's leave it at that since you guys obviously aren't going to change these rules anytime soon.

[masamuneehs]

i made this topic because I am serious about using your input in the rules. But if you have poor logic behind your points, it's not going to happen.

xdark: Confirming a spoiler reveals to everyone who comes across it that it is a spoiler. PMing a mod/that person and having them edit the post does not. People will see that there WAS a spoiler there, but they won't know what it was, and therefore not get spoiled.

Example:
Idiot 1: "N@ruto k1llZ da 5th H0kagee!1"
Idiot 2: "OMFG that's a spoiler!"

Now everyone reading these posts is spoiled.

Example 2:
Idiot 1: "N@ruto k1llZ da 5th H0kagee!1"
Smart person: PMs a mod/reports the post/contacts idiot1
Mod/Idiot: Edits the post, so now it reads:
"Spoiler removed. Don't be an idiot and read the rules. Warned."

Remeber, sometimes someone will throw a 'spoiler' out there, even through random speculation. But if someone then comes along and verifies that that speculation is a spoiler, then people take it to heart and get spoiled.

I'm not quite sure how i can explain it to you. Do other people see why that rule would be in place?

Drage: don't sweat it, those threads won't be moved until fillers end. like you pointed out, for better or worse they do raise alot of discussion in their areas.

But once the fillers do end, and if those topics stay in the anime sections, do you really think people will only post episode titles, no comments or anything, in them?

Locking the thread post fillers is a pretty good suggestion actually... Moving it to Open Discussion means that anime only viewers would get spoiled by looking for future episode titles (as spoilers would be permissible if it was in Open)

It may be a huge headache to patrol an episode titles thread in the anime only section after the fillers end. If people want it to stay, it'll stay. But I'll be the first to say it's just asking for trouble.