Forum Rules on Spoilers

[Animeniax]

Wow, I like it when mods can't be impartial and act like big babies like the rest of us.

Anyway, I think a thread title like "The Sixth Hokage" is pretty much a statement of future events. Whether they are speculative or actually have occurred in the manga, such statements will be taken as a spoiler.

I could go ahead and make a thread titled "Naruto beats Sasuke thanks to Jiraiya", then go on to make the thread a speculative topic about why Naruto would beat Sasuke with Rasengan in a fight. The casual forum goer who hasn't read the manga will assume that I've just posted a spoiler, and get very upset, even though the actual thread doesn't discuss future events (well, maybe).

[Yukimura]

It's not a spoiler if it's not true though. By definition spoiling should require that the spoiler in question give away information that is in the manga or something. Things like 'The Sixth Hokage' might be true, but just seeing the title doesn't imply that there will or won't be a sixth Hokage in the story. I don't think the goal of the spoiler rules is to protect people from idle speculation, it's to protect people from being exposed to ideas and having a very strong reason to believe that the ideas will take place in the anime before they actually do.

Example, around the time Sasuke gets put in the barrell if I werer to speculate "I wonder if we'll see Sasuke come out of the barrel and fight before this arc is over" people wouldn't have any reason to believe it was going to happen other than it being plausible. However if I were to say "I can't wait till Sasuke comes out of the barrell and fights Naruto" that would obviously be a spoiler, because 1) It was going to happen and 2) I imply that it will happen and that I'm just waiting to see it happen. Interestingly, if someone had used the spoiler wording on something that wasn't going to happen they might have been written off as speculative by a mod who had read the manga. The point being that the plot should be a surprise to anyone who only browses the anime forums.

[Munsu]

Point of the matter is that you don't have to concern yourself with there being spoilers on thread titles. We the mod are very aware of how thread titles are called and we act accordingly. In fact, if you have doubt of another thread title in the future and you bring it up, I'll consider that a spoiler instead. It pretty much goes along the lines of the spoiler rule "pointing out that something is a spoiler". So just sit back and let us do our job.

And just so you know, "The Sixth Hokage" is not a statement. It's a subject, so there's no spoiler in there. And as such, such "statements" as you call them will not be taken as a spoiler, if you're going to be paranoid about it be my guest, but that's your own fault. So I repeat once again, let us do our job and concern yourself with something else.

[Animeniax]

@Yukimura: valid points, but I don't agree that "it's not a spoiler if it's not true". Speculative statements based on future events can also spoil the storyline for non-manga readers. Like someone talking about a sixth hokage, I'd figure they are reading the manga and know the events leading up to a need for a sixth hokage. So as a non-manga-type, I can only (and justifiably) assume that future events take place that lead to the need for a sixth hokage. While there is no explicit spoiling going on, your average poster is intelligent enough to draw all sorts of conclusions from provocative statements, so why risk it by displaying thread titles?

@bud: Just because the mods don't consider something to be spoiling doesn't mean the vast majority of your community members agree. Like Yukimura said, even among the mods, there might be some who don't read the manga. So should we trust to mods that arbitrarily determine what is or is not spoiling, when that mod might not have read the manga, and thus doesn't know future events in the storyline, and can't say one way or another if "it's not a spoiler if it's not true"?

Btw, I'm not stating all of this just to be argumentative or to increase my post count. When I saw that thread title "The Sixth Hokage", I actually freaked and wondered what happened to Tsunade and the village of Konoha. I even went so far as to browse the thread to see what it was about, carefully skimming past any possible spoilers. As someone who doesn't even really care if the storyline gets spoiled, I was still annoyed that something as simple as a title listed as "last thread posted in" could lead to that.

[Munsu]

So should we trust to mods that arbitrarily determine what is or is not spoiling, when that mod might not have read the manga, and thus doesn't know future events in the storyline, and can't say one way or another if "it's not a spoiler if it's not true"?

Sorry to tell you, but most if not all the mods read the Naruto and Bleach mangas, and we do know when something is a spoiler or not. If you can't trust that might as well stop visiting the forums.

Btw, I'm not stating all of this just to be argumentative or to increase my post count. When I saw that thread title "The Sixth Hokage", I actually freaked and wondered what happened to Tsunade and the village of Konoha.

As I said before, you being paranoid about something is not our fault, deal with it.

As someone who doesn't even really care if the storyline gets spoiled.

Then why don't you just drop the shit and go do something more productive.

[Yukimura]

I just want to take this opportunity to distance myself from Animeniax. I thought it was pretty clear that my point was I don't think things that don't take away doubts are spoilers. Also I know most of the mods read Naruto and Bleach manga especially the ones actively involved in watching those respective threads.

@Animeniax:
Your points about drawing logical conclusions are flawed, as they ignore the eqully logical line of reasoning where you conclde that the Sixth Hokage thread is just speculation about who could/should follow Tsunade whenever she's not Hokage anymore. Either of these lines of reasoning has equal weight if you have no idea what's going on in the manga.

When you saw 'the Sixth Hokage' you got scared and thought you knew something that you didn't, you assumed that just b/c it was being talked about in the open section it was true, apparently you didn't think that it could just be a 'Hey what if, thread' It should not be the mods job to police your thoughts and teach you decision making.

And as to trust, if you don't trust the mods you shouldn't try and make them trustworthy by pleading you should find a forum where you do trust them.

[Animeniax]

@bud: naaah.

@yukimura: Why would there be a sixth hokage unless something happened to the 5th one? The logical line of thought is that she either dies or retires, since that is what happened to the previous 4 (the 3rd actually retired, then came back, then died). I don't think anyone would assume the hokage role is one that you could just quit if you felt like it, so that isn't something to consider. So am I that off base thinking that Tsunade dies or retires, when I see a thread titled "The Sixth Hokage"?

Why should I have any trust in the mods on this forum? From what I've seen, they're as petty and childish as the rest of us. Just because they've been around a while or they got the job because they know the owner of the forums doesn't make them above reproach, and it surely doesn't make them respectable or trustable.

And as for what constitutes a spoiler, I feel a lot more assured since "most" moderators read the manga. Too bad not all of them read it, then your theory would hold water.

[Munsu]

Alright, Animeniax, you've said your part... The thread titles rule is fine and there's no need for concern. Consider the matter closed, and I expect the above post will be the last we hear on the matter.
Come back when you have a logical and real argument, because you having a shitty thought process is nothing we have to concern ourselves for. A further post from you in this thread lacking the above elements will be deleted and considered spamming.
And yeah, this is my "childish" way of saying that ýour input is no longer wanted in this thread.

[masamuneehs]

...um... so, anything else?

Some good points were made for and against certain rules, but if anything this whole thread has made me less sure of some of the proposed rule changes. But, as is, the current rules are still very vague on spoiler rules, and it's time to do something about that, even if every issue is not addressed and finalized yet.

i would like to thank the people who particpated and put in their opinion, even if it got shot down or was something i personally went against. discussions like this are needed, and hopefully can continue to point out things that the staff by themselves don't see.

It's also introduced a whole new can of worms, spoiler tags.

I like the tags idea, but it's not just up to me and doesn't look to be happening in the immediate future. So the rules would be updated without those spoilers tags being brought into play. Keep clamoring for them and hopefully it'll be done.

other things that i've gathered from here, (feel free to tell me if i missed something/got it wrong):
spoilers in sigs/avatars are prohibited. fanart may contain spoilers, but must not be a picture on the actual forums and the link must be properly labeled with a warning that it contains a spoiler.

spoilers in thread titles also not allowed, for reasons pointed above. Speculation topics and episode preview discussion are fine as long as no actual spoiling goes on there.

Confirming a spoiler, quoting a spoiler = spoiling. sorry xdark.

The Upcoming Episode Title threads will stay where they are.

i know it's hard to quantify what's best or not so in matters of opinion, but I think the new rules on spoilers could only be a good thing and so they should be implemented asap.

[XanBcoo]

Concerning spoiler tags, I don't like the idea of every topic being littered with black bars, and you having to guess for yourself: "Would this be something I already know?" but there have been so many times I've encountered the need for a spoiler tag. But yeah...I can see how it would be abused by someone not familar with the forums.

Could there be a way to limit spoiler tag usage to certain subforums? Perhaps prohibiting their use in the Naruto Anime and Bleach Anime forums by creating a sticky that says "Do not use spoiler tags in this forum" or something to that effect. Outside the Anime discussion forums (like maybe in General Discussion or Fanart) could there be some way of distinguishing manga spoilers from anime spoilers? That way it could be made clear that a person who hasn't read the manga of such-and-such a series wouldn't be spoiled by highlighting that text.

Also, I don't see the need for moving the next episode discussions to the Naruto Open Discussion forum. I thought the way it was during the pre-filler episodes worked really well. You'd have a thread called "Episode 100 discussion" and "Episode 101 preview discussion", the latter being open to speculation (and speculation only) about the next episode. If you didn't want to discuss it, you stayed out of that topic. It's a small matter, but it was a system I liked.

[bagandscalpel]

Concerning spoiler tags, I don't like the idea of every topic being littered with black bars, and you having to guess for yourself: "Would this be something I already know?" but there have been so many times I've encountered the need for a spoiler tag. But yeah...I can see how it would be abused by someone not familar with the forums.

What about those particular spoiler tags that simply act as links that hide/unhide texts and other stuff? Those seem to be pretty effective and non-obtrusive, compared to the black lines.

[Yukimura]

This is in reference to the post herel by Psyke that was edited by some Mod.

From what BioAlien said afterwards I'm guessing he (Psyke) provided a link to a site that has all the rules of the Death Note from the Death Note manga on it (two rules are provided with each new episode if you don't know). The link seems to have been removed and a reference to the spoiler rules was made. Now I've read the rules and I thought I understood them, but where does it say that links with warnings are not okay and are subject to deletion as opposed to a mod added spoiler warning? I don't know if Psyke gave a warning that it was a list from the manga or not and I know the rules are written for the lowest common denominator so I'm not trying to argue over this specific incident. However if providing a link to a place that has spoilers is not allowed shouldn't it actually be written in the rules? I know the rules clearly state that links to fanart containing spoilers are allowed if warning is given, but this phantom rule seems to contradict that.

While I wouldenjoy a nice flame war/argument about how unfair and contradictry this rule might be I am instead simply requesting that that if it stands, the rule (Formally: No links to sites that provide spoiler material will be tolerated, unless the material is fanart) be added to the list so people don't make the same mistake again.

[Munsu]

This will be a two point response:

• "No spoiling is allowed on this forum whatsoever. Spoiling is regarded as providing information that would be otherwise unknown to the anime-only watcher by a person that has acquired such information from outside sources, for example the manga."
  
  Warning or no warning, you are providing information unknown to anime-only watchers.

• "Those posts and/or comments that would be regarded as spoilers are, but are not limited to"
  
  Notice the portion that says "not limited to"? It's even underlined. That means we as mod can make judgement calls. I felt that providing the rules for the Death Note in the anime thread would make a mockery of the anime discussion, so I decided to remove it. I didn't even give Psyke a warning, seeing as this was a judgement call in my part. But the link to all the Death Note rules you have to agree that it provides very sensitive information.
  
  As you might remember the whole mess that happened in the Fate/stay night thread when someone provided a link to wikipedia, and then everyone in the forum visited the site and pretty much ruined all the surprises the anime had to offer.
  
  And if you read my comment properly, I said "Even if you put a warning," which pretty much is saying that I'm doing an exception of sorts and invoking my super moderation powers. It later on says "I won't allow all DN rules to be posted yet" which pretty much backs up what I mentioned above about this being very sensitive information.

[DarthEnderX]

If it matter, I don't watch episode previews and would rather people didn't discuss them.(I don't understand why people watch the previews to begin with, it's just a big 2 minute spoiler for the next episode).

I mean, shit, if I had the ability, I'd avoid see episode titles too. Those things are always huge spoilers. Pisses me right off, but there's nothing I can do to change that one.

If we did have spoiler tags, I'd be okay with them using them in a discussion thread to discuss the preview. As long as they mark that the spoiler pertains too.

So the post would look like:

*discussion about episode*

Preview spoiler
[spoiler]Man, did you see that one shot of whozits using that power on that guy![/spoiler]

*more episode discussion maybe*

*maybe a sig if the person is into that kinda thing*

[Kraco]

Well, previews are only good when you are watching a fine currently airing series and "can't wait for" the next week's episode. But nevertheless they are usually included in the subs, so they are valid material. Though it's a rough estimate, but I would say only 15% or so of episode impressions posts ever mention them, if even that.

I doubt any set of rules ever satisfy all the regulars, and when you fall into the minority (hopefully) not being satisfied, it's basically just tough luck. But all in all of all the anime forums I've ever visited, Gotwoot has clearly the most superior and most functional spoiler rules, and I'd say it's even partly due to the missing spoiler tags.

[Assassin]

This has already been discussed at length. Spoiler tags will do more harm then good here. It'll just give stupid users a reason to spoil and then try to justify it. As Kraco said, users who dont like preview discussion are in the minority, and there isn't too much preview discussion really, except maybe in the less mainstream stuff in General Anime. If you happen to be in that minorty, well, sucks to be you then. You'll just have to be careful i guess.

[Archangel]

More necroing

So when a member is continuously spoiling without realizing it... we leave it alone and hope nobody will notice it? I'm pretty sure not even he knows he's spoiling

[Ryllharu]

Out of curiosity, what context is this? Posts in a series anime thread (from manga or light novel knowledge), unrelated series posts ("This is just like when ___ happened in ___!"), or something else entirely?

[Munsu]

More necroing

So when a member is continuously spoiling without realizing it... we leave it alone and hope nobody will notice it? I'm pretty sure not even he knows he's spoiling

If someone notices, use the report function. What's the problem?

[Buffalobiian]

More necroing

So when a member is continuously spoiling without realizing it... we leave it alone and hope nobody will notice it? I'm pretty sure not even he knows he's spoiling

That last sentence doesn't quite make sense. By "not even he knows he's spoiling", do you mean:

1) The poster is not aware of the spoiling rules that apply in our forum and is knowingly cross-referencing information without knowledge of our rules, or

2) The poster has difficulty recognising what information is sourced from what material (anime or manga etc)?

#2 means he probably has some issue intrinsic to their mental capacity....