Forum Rules on Spoilers

[xDarkMaster]

Masa, I get what you are saying. But I'm not talking about speculation. I'm talking about someone actually spoiling, with or without bad intentions.

My point is in both situations the same amount of people would have read the first post.
Sit 1 - Read, it's a spoiler?!, removed after x amount of people have seen it
Sit 2 - Read, removed after x amount of people have seen it, goes back to thread, it's a spoiler?!

You guys seem to think contacting a mod is 10x faster then posting it, which isn't always the case. In all honesty I can see your points. Can you see mine?

[Munsu]

There may be numerous situations, so let's not go to the, "what if this happens"... Not revealing that someone is spoiling is the one that protects the most, and that's the way it's going to stay. It protects against morons that can't tell a speculation from a spoiler, which is what happens most of the times.

[Assassin]

XDM, i dont see what you're complaining about? Are you saying it would be better to identify something as a spoiler in the actual thread instead of quietly PMing a mod or the person to remove it?

[xDarkMaster]

I'm not saying that, don't put words in my mouth. I'm not complaining either. I'm simply trying to point out what I see wrong with the rule and the reason why, which none of you seem to even try and understand.

All you guys are just saying the same thing over and over again. I get your point and I get that I can't win this argument b/c you guys obviously don't care to change the rules.

So, bravo! Excellent rules, I'm sure no one will ever spoil on these forums again. >_>

[Munsu]

Maybe the problem is that you're not explaining your situation clearly because I really don't see the point you are trying to make, and apparently everyone else.

It's not a matter of winning the argument, it's a matter that I don't understand the problem you're seeing.

And it's not a matter of being quickly or not as you point out. It's a matter of the amount of people being affected by the spoiler. Because let's get practical, most people don't know what they are reading until it becomes a recurring theme, which is one of the things that gets avoided if people stop pointing to the same post as a spoiler.

And yeah, regarding this rule you won't win the argument, but I really want to understand what you mean.

[Assassin]

I'm not saying that, don't put words in my mouth. I'm not complaining either. I'm simply trying to point out what I see wrong with the rule and the reason why, which none of you seem to even try and understand.

No need to be hostile. I wasn't putting words in your mouth, i was just asking a question. Like Bud, i dont see what it is that you're disagreeing with. I was simply asking if you were suggesting we let people point out a spoiler rather then report it. Obviously thats not the case, so please tell us what it is you're trying to say.

[xDarkMaster]

Bud - That is one huge assumption.

Assassin - I'm not being hostile, just brusque.

Ok, I guess the point that I have been trying to drive at the entire time is this. Without speculation, without what ifs. I say spoiler and it's removed proves it was a spoiler. Mod removes b/c it was a spoiler proves its a spoiler. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Are you going to warn yourselves every time you prove something was a spoiler? I'm not saying it's better to post it's a spoiler rather than PM, I'm saying how can you punish someone that wasn't spoiling and trying to stop spoiling?

That said, let's let this go. It was already plainly stated this conversation can't go anywhere b/c the rule isn't going to change. At this point, I am just wasting my time and yours by going through this.

You mods can stop arguing with me and trying to convince me otherwise, I have already relented. Now it's your turn to get on with life.

[Assassin]

I say spoiler and it's removed proves it was a spoiler. Mod removes b/c it was a spoiler proves its a spoiler. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? Are you going to warn yourselves every time you prove something was a spoiler? I'm not saying it's better to post it's a spoiler rather than PM, I'm saying how can you punish someone that wasn't spoiling and trying to stop spoiling?

Ok i see what you're getting at. But heres the thing,

1. If someone posts a spoiler, we can't just leave it there obviously. It has to be removed. Someone will undoubtedly see it and that can't really be helped. The difference is, if you post in that thread saying "Thats a spoiler, please remove it", all that does is confirm it for those who might not have known. Whats worse is that it doesn't really help to solve the problem. Theres no gurantee that the person who posted the spoiler will see it rite away, and the same goes for the mods. If you PM a mod, we'll know about it a lot faster, instead of just randomly stumbling upon it. The spoiler will be removed in both cases, but with reporting its removed alot faster, and thus the number of people that could be spoiled is far less. Now the reason that we punish those who post instead of PMing is because they're really just wasting time by not reporting and hence helping to spoil more people.

2. I dont know about all the mods, but i for one dont remove something unless its an intentional spoiler. If someones speculation heppens to be correct, its still a speculation as far as the anime-only viewers are concerned. Even if that person intentionally posted a spoiler disguised as a speculation, the anime-only members are none the wiser. So by posting "thats a spoiler" you're the one spoiling technically. If you instead PM a mod we can quietly remove the spoiler, and in most cases the general public wont even know what part was removed. They'll know that the post contained a spoiler, but 99% wont remember what the spoiler actually was. We can even delete the entire post if need be, so no one except the user who posted it will know it was ever there. And in rare cases, if we see that the "speculation" poses no real threat we mite just leave it there. The options available to us are far greater then those available you the average user, so its just easier to inform the mods secretly rather then yeling it out.

[xDarkMaster]

Ok, now I might start to get a bit hostile. I honestly don't know if you guys are reading past the first few sentences of my posts.

1) I know your arguments already, explaining them to me for the 5th time only with more words and buff isn't going to help you at all. I already acknowledged that PMing a mod is probably faster.

2) One of your arguments is by not telling the mods we are "helping spoil." Why not just go and ban all of GW that doesn't report it?

3) Of course you wouldn't stop speculation. The entire point of the forum is to discuss the episodes and speculate about what is going to happen. I wasn't suggesting you do anything of the sort.

4) Honestly, if you had paid attention to my posts you would have known I'm not talking about speculation. At all. NO SPECULATION. I'm talking about deliberate spoiling, w/ or w/o malicious intent.

5) Seriously, let's stop this argument. I understand you. You might understand me. We can stay here another year and nothing would change. I have heard and understand the reasoning of all your arguments, once again, why you feel the need to reword them into longer arguments is beyond me.

[Deadfire]

The main point here is that saying "stop spoiling" and/or the mod removing spoiler both proves it’s a spoiler and the rule that we are placing in is saying "stop spoiling" proves it’s a spoiler. It's a little hypocritical that our own action would show that in-fact we are covering it up, which in turn shows to the public that something about that post they just saw is amiss.

Now I understand that speculation and spoiling may not be done with malicious intent. However it wouldn't happen right away but at some point people would know not to say things like that but at the time we make these rules official it seems that we would be for lack of a better word overbearing.

We aren't trying to be here, so with us changing the way people post is not because we feel that it should be, it's also for the sake of the forum in general. GW is a really small community right now, and honestly it really is the noobs would spoil regularly. We would like it so that everyone would be on the same page somewhat as those that are new.

So in all honesty everyone will see that posting something like that should not be done. If that becomes true in most peoples minds then the actions on which we are having this discussion about would not happen.

[mage]

So the reason not to post that something is a spoiler is b/c it proves it a spoiler.

If I may say so, that is totally pointless. Assuming the person is actually spoiling and not speculating (Masa) then a person is supposed to PM them or a mod. Well, let's say someone goes Naruto kills the Fifth Hokage (obviously not true).

I PM the person and assuming he/she isn't a complete ass he/she removes the post. People thus know it was a spoiler.

I PM a mod, they remove it telling the person not to spoil again, people know it was a spoiler.

I post "That is a spoiler please remove it," (while not furthering spoiling) he removes the post, people know it was a spoiler. What's the difference?

When they remove the post, if they got to it in a timely manner, the majority of the forum probably would not have seen it. Also, some people may not realize it's a spoiler, but when someone posts "That's a spoiler," it makes it kind of obvious. Are you suggesting that the mods just leave the spoiler there for everyone to see?

[Assertn]

What comes to previews, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to be discussed. They are parts of the released, subbed episodes. Maybe there are people who religiously never watch them (I don't watch them if I have the next episode already on my HD), but you can't please everybody. And besides, it's not like the preview normally would even be the focus of the discussion.

This one I think is just rediculious. We have threads, populars threads at that in both the Bleach and Naruto anime section. Now I know as of late they have been unreliable, but it generates discussion and activity and it is a positive edition to the anime. Also I believe that no one minds about knowing the name of the title. The threads are labled properly, obviously stating that reading the title will give you some insight on what is yet to come. If you don't want to know just don't enter, it is simple as that.

Take Kraco's wishes with dragonrage's suggestion and you end up with the same preview discussion practice we've followed way back before the fillers started.

Would you object to that?

[Kraco]

After reading some posts here, I actually came to agree with the opinion that the title threads might not be needed anymore once the fillers are over. For my own part I'm not likely to visit them anymore even if they were allowed to persist. While they wouldn't do any damage at all in the ideal world since everybody could visit or not visit them according to their own desires, I can't honestly predict how things would go in reality, especially if lots of new people come pouring in once the manga based story returns.

Well, I change my opinion from supporting those threads to neutral. Somebody wiser than me decide.

[mage]

You can just move the Upcoming Titles thread to the Naruto Open section and make it a sticky, then make a Naruto Episode Preview sticky in the same section. This way, everyone would know that they would be entering spoiler territory to see them. Damn I'm smart. Praise be to Mage.

[dragonrage]

Assertnfailure :

ha ha ha.

I don't know if you lack the ability to scroll down or it might be your sense of humor, but you're about a few post late on that comment. But I do appreciate your comment, we all know that they are always well detailed.

masa:

I am satisfy with it staying where it is until the fillers end, if ever. But yea, they would be better locked than moved, atleast that is what I think.

[mage]

Why would they be better off locked? If they're moved to Open then whoever wants to see/discuss them (such as myself) could go and do so. Personally, I think previews should be allowed to be discussed in the episode discussion thread since they're part of the episode, but as that goes against the popular opinion, a thread in Open should suffice.

[Yukimura]

I recently replied to a post by nests about spoilers in sigs, while I am completely outraged and think the rule is foolish, I know none of you mods care (for good reason) and thus I will put my energy into trying to understand instead. What exactly does a 'spoiler sig' entail.

Would any sig with some charachter X from manga Y be a spoiler? Or would it have to be something like Charachter's X and Y doing action Z from manga Q. I can see how something like a sig of Ichigo in Hollow form would have been a spoiler, however it feels wrong to say you can't have that art b/c it gives something away about a story, ESPECIALLY if you never post in the anime section. Also it could be fanart.

Example, I know that D. Grey Man is a popular manga that is going to be made an anime soon, if I had a D.Grey Man sig depicting some charachter from D Grey Man doing some type of thing that D.Grey Man charachters do (but not untill later in the story) would it become a spoiler sig by virtue of the anime being created?

General spoiler statement: Gotwoot has never seemed to be very manga orientated but there are still manga readers here, even manga only readers I would imagine. If the site is not primarily meant for these types of people as I think Bud mentioned, then why do we bother having any manga discussion at all?

Not that I want the gotwoot community to get any smaller, but all the manga threads and sections seems like a pretty big liability to the majority, the anime only watchers, who the site seems to be meant for. Hypothetically, if we eliminated all the manga sections we would eliminate much of the lure for manga readers, and thus reduce the pool of new people who might accientally spoil b/c they don't know the rules. Additionally I theorize that the people who read mangas as well as watch anime will be reluctant to speak about their manga knowledge knowing that no manga is discussed anywhere on the site. Only about 8% of the threads and about 12% of the site's posts are in manga topics (Bleach/Naruto Manga, General Manga, and the One Piece Manga Thread) wouldn't it be easier to just cut this part out of the site to help discourage people who know the future from polluting the anime viewers?

[Kraco]

Calm down, Yukimura. You aren't thinking rationally in your enragement. Just like you said yourself, this is an anime oriented place. But that doesn't mean there can't be anything else here. It only mean the anime is the standard, and other things are in a subservient position in relation to the anime. That's how things are and must be for there to be any order at all, because this is a site with a theme. However, it's just childish to say that since this is an anime site, why do we bother to have any manga discussion at all.

I'm a miserable manga reader, having finished only a handful of titles, but I never considered the manga should go away from here. It seems to have a solid foundation, and some of the members here are even running the excellent manga download site.

Yet still this is an anime site, and thus the only viable option is to monitor and enforce the rules from the anime's point of view, just like has been done in the past. That's no problem. Ordinary people must have their basic liberties even if criminals sometimes take advantage of that freedom as well.

[Honoko]

Here's another suggestion, albeit slightly ridiculous: have seperate threads for anime-only viewers and anime/manga viewers. That way, both sides can freely discuss and/or freely speculate what's going on during the series.

On a more serious note: for any other anime series besides Naruto, why not just have people start spoiler threads if they wish to discuss "what's already known." Like how movies or tv shows are noted in our general discussion section, we can have "Spoiler: (insert non-spoiling title of topic discussion here)." That way, we don't have to reorganize the entire site or add spoiler tags and people would automatically know that they are entering that particular thread at their own risk.

[Munsu]

Here's another suggestion, albeit slightly ridiculous: have seperate threads for anime-only viewers and anime/manga viewers. That way, both sides can freely discuss and/or freely speculate what's going on during the series.

And for what reason do we have the manga section? Feel free to discuss the anime counterpart in that section also if your discussion will involve spoilers. There's nothing stopping you.

On a more serious note: for any other anime series besides Naruto, why not just have people start spoiler threads if they wish to discuss "what's already known." Like how movies or tv shows are noted in our general discussion section, we can have "Spoiler: (insert non-spoiling title of topic discussion here)." That way, we don't have to reorganize the entire site or add spoiler tags and people would automatically know that they are entering that particular thread at their own risk.

No, this will discourage discussion of fansubs, and it will encourage the same shit to be discussed twice, which seems like a very bad situation to me. This is a forum to discuss fansubs, not to discuss RAWs or random spoiler information you found in the internet.
We don't like spoiler discussions period, and we sure don't like to encourage and facilitate it. “What’s already known” should be what you’ve seen in the fansubs, if you are impatient and went around to wikipedia and other sites to get yourself spoiled then good for you, but no need to drag everyone in the forums with you. And if what you know you got it from the manga, here’s a crazy idea, go and discuss it in the manga section.