Naruto 311

[shinta|hikari]

Its not like everyone wants naruto to learn that technique. Its just that, with the information we have, it seems to be the most logical guess.

Yes, I agree with you completely on this one. I didnt want naruto to learn the hiraishin, but maybe its too late now. During the years he spent with jiraiya, I was hoping he would learn a ton of jutsus, and maybe come up with ones himself and develop to an entirely new level as a ninja. But seeing as to how that didnt happen, they had to resort to this fucking cheap ass way to power naruto up. Unless its some new uber jutsu, or training that can reincarnate ninjas 10x stronger, hiraishin just seemed the only logical choice.

I in fact hate how naruto is just going along copying all the moves of the 4th. If he wants to be hokage, he shouldnt be the 4ths replacement. Like he said before, he should do it with his own way of the ninja.

[dragon608608]

...he should do it with his own way of the ninja.

I am completely with you here. If Naruto have ton of ninjutsu, what will he become? Another Orochimaru? or Sasuke? I think he shouldn't have to learn a lot of ninjutsu, instead, I want him to learn only few of them (each and everyone of them have to be bad ass of course), and refine them to take them to the next level to develop his own Naruto's style.

For those of you who thought Naruto using a cheap way to get stronger, I am in fact didn't think so at all. It is true that he need someone else (like Kakashi and Ero Sanin) to teach him the move, but Naruto learn and practice it with his own power. He even refuse to use Kuuybi's power during his encounter with Sasuke. Unlike someone that we know, who using drug and devil power (curse seal) to get stronger and still not having a second thought about it, Naruto is decent guy by my eyes.

[Zidarri the Exile]

His 'way of the ninja' is to "Never take back his words". So saying he should stop learning jutsu's of the Fourth, and use his own way, doesn't really work. He should do his best to be the best.

Sarutobi, Sandaime Hokage, knew every Jutsu of Konoha, or so it was said. Does that mean he did not become Hokage in his own way?


Yellow Flash was ALSO his nickname. So I am right, but wrong as well.

[shinta|hikari]

His way of the ninja isnt just to not take back his words. He basically says it anytime he uses his determination to achieve anything, and that example is just one of them.

Naruto is just copying all of the jutsus of the 4th, and of course becoming stronger. But being a hokage isnt just about being strong obviously. He is like becoming the 4th himself, instead of trying to become a hokage for the reason he had since the beginning, which is to be recognized.

The reason why people (like tsunade, sakura etc) think that naruto can become a hokage isnt because he is strong, nor is it because of the rasengan or frog summon. Its because of who he is, and 'his way of the ninja'.

That is why I mentioned that going this way seems to veer away from his own way of being a ninja. Obviously I am not saying that it is wrong for him to copy the jutsus, just that its boring and I dont like it. (He is becoming like a 4th clone, how the hell is anyone supposed to recognize him as naruto like that)

Sarutobi learned all of the jutsu of konoha. Come on think. Isnt that becoming a hokage in his own way in itself? Not all hokages learn all the jutsu of their village, and he actually did that, making him truly worthy of being hokage.

And you were completely wrong, because the point you were trying to make wasnt that his nickname was the yellow flash (which everyone knows), but that Hiraishin wasnt a jutsu. Completely missing your point cant be called being right in the least.

[The Master]

the foruth hokage was nicknamed konohas yellow flash and the technique he used was called body flicker

[shinta|hikari]

Ooops. I carelessly put yellow flash and hiraishin together in an earlier post. But yeah, Hiraishin was the jutsu, and because of that jutsu, he was called the yellow flash. I guess since it was because of Hiraishin that the nickname was coined that people have mistakenly associated yellow flash as a synonym for hiraishin. But its because of the jutsu, not his speed, that the 4th was known as that.

[bxgreatone87]

His way of the ninja isnt just to not take back his words. He basically says it anytime he uses his determination to achieve anything, and that example is just one of them.

Naruto is just copying all of the jutsus of the 4th, and of course becoming stronger. But being a hokage isnt just about being strong obviously. He is like becoming the 4th himself, instead of trying to become a hokage for the reason he had since the beginning, which is to be recognized.

The reason why people (like tsunade, sakura etc) think that naruto can become a hokage isnt because he is strong, nor is it because of the rasengan or frog summon. Its because of who he is, and 'his way of the ninja'.

That is why I mentioned that going this way seems to veer away from his own way of being a ninja. Obviously I am not saying that it is wrong for him to copy the jutsus, just that its boring and I dont like it. (He is becoming like a 4th clone, how the hell is anyone supposed to recognize him as naruto like that)

Sarutobi learned all of the jutsu of konoha. Come on think. Isnt that becoming a hokage in his own way in itself? Not all hokages learn all the jutsu of their village, and he actually did that, making him truly worthy of being hokage.

And you were completely wrong, because the point you were trying to make wasnt that his nickname was the yellow flash (which everyone knows), but that Hiraishin wasnt a jutsu. Completely missing your point cant be called being right in the least.

From what u are saying you make it seem like its narutos fault that his two teachers have taought him moves the 4th has know. What you want him to say no! i dont want to learn what u are teaching me. It makes no sense dont all ninja learn and become what thier teachers show them. S if naruto leanrs another move that the 4th had he is learning them from 1. the teacher of the forth and 2. a student of the fourth so wouldnt he basically be forced to learn abilities from the fourth. The only major thing naruto can learn from kakashi is something like chidori and he cant use it without sharigan anyway cause remember it can only be perfected if the user can obtain a high speed and also be able to move aound to avoid attacks which kakashi wasnt able to do until he obtained sharigan.The third hokage knew all the moves of konoha because he was tought by the 2 founders of the village and the first 2 hokages. The studen become the teacher so naruto learns from the teacher/stduent of the 4th makeing him like the 4th in the end.

[mage]

Did your net mess up and delete random letters and words from your post as well? It's barely comprehensible.

[darkmetal505]

From what u are saying you make it seem like its narutos fault that his two teachers have taought him moves the 4th has know. What you want him to say no! i dont want to learn what u are teaching me. It makes no sense dont all ninja learn and become what thier teachers show them. S if naruto leanrs another move that the 4th had he is learning them from 1. the teacher of the forth and 2. a student of the fourth so wouldnt he basically be forced to learn abilities from the fourth. The only major thing naruto can learn from kakashi is something like chidori and he cant use it without sharigan anyway cause remember it can only be perfected if the user can obtain a high speed and also be able to move aound to avoid attacks which kakashi wasnt able to do until he obtained sharigan.The third hokage knew all the moves of konoha because he was tought by the 2 founders of the village and the first 2 hokages. The studen become the teacher so naruto learns from the teacher/stduent of the 4th makeing him like the 4th in the end.

yes, but since when has Kakashi ever used a justsu of the Fourth?

The only major thing naruto can learn from kakashi is something like chidori and he cant use it without sharigan anyway cause remember it can only be perfected if the user can obtain a high speed and also be able to move aound to avoid attacks which kakashi wasnt able to do until he obtained sharigan.

I'm pretty sure that was Sasuke. They never said you need sharingan to perform chidori. Where did Kakashi copy his speed from? Gai? Sasuke used sharingan to copy Lee's speed because he was time pressed.

The studen become the teacher so naruto learns from the teacher/stduent of the 4th makeing him like the 4th in the end.

Using this theory, Orochimaru, Jiraya, and Tsunade are actually the 3rd! But they fight completely differently! ZOMG!

Contradictions suck.

Mage is right. Did your net somehow mess up your english?

[shinta|hikari]

From what u are saying you make it seem like its narutos fault that his two teachers have taought him moves the 4th has know. What you want him to say no! i dont want to learn what u are teaching me.

Err... I think darkmetal pretty much covered all the logical blackholes in your post, but just to clear things up, I never said anything about it being Narutos fault. I even said that Im not saying that it is wrong for him to copy the moves, since as you mentioned many ninjas do it. But, what I did say is that if that continues, it will just get boring and that I dont like the path naruto is taking. It is not naruto the characters fault, since obviously he doesnt have much choice, but the authors.

Being taught by two hokages doesnt guarantee you learn all the jutsus in your village. In fact, logically speaking that has no connection whatsoever. Rather than the teacher, the one to be recognized is the one who actually did that task.

Still, Im surprised how adamantly you defended naruto. Its like he was a real person that you know or something... I am not saying that is bad though (depends), but next time please understand the post before you let your emotions chew away at your brain. Maybe then you can write something more comprehensible.

[Divinity]

I don't have a problem with Naruto learning other jutsus from other people.

What is so wrong with that? I'm pretty sure every ninja in the show have many jutsus that other ninjas can use as well. Sure it's cool to be unique, but I think Naruto's Kage Bunshins are what make him unique already. He is the only one who is able to use it(at least so far we've seen) multiple times because of his unlimited chakra. Anyways... I have nothing against a subordinate learning the same jutsus from his trainers... To be honest, I think it's pretty cool taking after your trainers.

And yes, to darkmetal, the Sharingan was needed for Kakashi to fully master his Chidori. I think it was in the manga where the 4th told Kakashi. It's an incomplete jutsu because there are many openings to attack Kakashi from. When Kakashi got his Sharingan, he could see which openings were being attacked and he could dodge them while running with his Chidori.

[shinta|hikari]

Learning other jutsus from other people is fine. Its is what everyone does. But Naruto is learning only the 4ths techniques, and that is what I find irritating. I mean, there are tons of other jutsus out there, ones that would go well with his unique use of kagebunshin too, but all he keeps learning are the 4th jutsus. Taking after your master doesnt mean becoming them, which is what naruto is slowly but steadily doing.

Sharingan isnt necessary to do the chidori, but it is necessary to use it effectively (in kakashi and sasukes case at least). If you have something that will make up for its weakness (for example using genjutsu or summoning something to hold down your opponent which kakashi actually did), then sharingan isnt required at all.

EDIT : the reason I find naruto becoming almost like the 4th irritiating is because it seems to defeat his original purpose of wanting to be recognized. Even if he does become hokage, people will see him as the guy who is almost or as strong as the 4th, not as a completly separate ninja. Instead of his own merits, it seems like he just took the 4ths merits as well as his place as hokage. (this is of course if naruto does indeed learn the hiraishin, if not then anything new would be very welcome)

[chet_chetty]

Are we confusing Naruto w/ Sasuke here saying he'll become recognized "in his own way"? Of the many themes attached to Naruto's character, being recognized by being a unique ninja was not one of them. He mainly wants to become Hokage and be recognized simply because he is constantly underestimated.

I would personally like to see Naruto become as close to the 4th as possible because it is known the 4th was a badass ninja who was powerful enough to seal Kyuubi. We will never see the 4th in action outside of against some army in the Kakashi Gaiden.

If/when Naruto gets to the 4th's level, by imitating the 4th's style, it will be a sight to see.

[shinta|hikari]

Naruto always had his own style, in both character and his fighting. That is what made me like Naruto in the first place. I didnt say he had to be recognized as a unique ninja, he just shouldnt become the 4th. That is obviously different. No one in naruto has moves exactly like their teacher, (even though jiraiya and 4th have a lot in common though still a lot of differences) and naruto having the same ougis as the 4th is like cheapening his character because the author is tired of thinking of new jutsus.

Also, if you really think he should be like the 4th, he shouldnt imitate jutsus all the time. The 4th wasnt strong because he imitated jiraiyas jutsus, but because he created new very powerful ones (ie rasengan).

Sasuke never wanted to be recognized. He just wants his revenge. "in his own way" for sasuke never existed. He has sharingan for crying out loud.

I understand that you want to see the 4th in action again, but I dont think seeing that is worth reincarnating him in naruto. I would rather see new more creative jutsus that naruto came up with himself rather than the 4ths clone.

Naruto getting to the 4ths level IS a sight to see, but naruto becoming the 4th himself isnt.

EDIT : the reason naruto wants to be recognized isnt only because he is constantly underestimated. It is mainly because of the fact that he was shunned or either treated as non-existent by the villagers because of the kyuubi. Because of this, he didnt have friends and was always thought of as nothing. That is why he wanted people to know that Naruto existed, that naruto had worth.

He may get the recognition as a strong ninja if he became the 4ths clone. And no one would underestimate him again, but rather than Naruto himself having worth, it is like he just took the 4ths identity and became known for that.

[Edort4]

Dont take this bad but not by making lots of answers you are righter. In Naruto almost everyone has the jutsus of his parents or teachers. Is just common sense. If they already know good working jutsus they will teach or pass them, I think that if somebody knows the 4th jutsus and Naruto is able of doing them they should teach him everything.

Not because I want Naruto to be like the 4th just to prevent those jutsus to be lost if Naruto is the only descendence of the 4th is common sense for him to learn his jutsus just like the rest of Konoha. For example if only jiraya knows rasengan and is killed that technique is lost. And that, I guess, is the reason for the families or clans in the ninja villages. To inherit the knowledge of all their ancestors. Some people can make new jutsus,even if as time goes by it must be much harder because lots of things are already invented.

So basically I would like some new unique techniques for Naruto and those could be 4ths or anyone elses techniques.

For the edited part: then you can say that almost everyone in the series isnt real, just clones of their teachers or parents... . It doesnt matter what jutsus Naruto learns he is Naruto the number 1º suprise ninja and that wont change. (I guess that if Naruto learns chidori that makes him a clone of kakashi... thats cool ).

[shinta|hikari]

Err, all of what you just said is just an opinion as well. Its not about being right or wrong, so please dont put that into the discussion. If you can actually read posts, read back a few and see what I was discussing from the very beginning. Just so you will understand, I will repeat what I said. I never said it was wrong for naruto to learn the 4ths techniques. Its that I dont like it, and I feel that it is boring. Arguing about it isnt about proving that my opinion is right, but rather defending why I think that way.

This was never about maintaining and inheriting jutsus. The whole discussion was about whether it would be better for the naruto as a character if he learned the 4ths jutsus or not.

Are you seriously thinking that naruto the surprise ninja didnt change? Its like you havent been reading the manga. For the whole of the last arc he was one big disappointment. Nothing was surprising whatsoever. Obviously that is not narutos fault (wouldnt want naruto fanatics like you to flame me for blaming him) but rather the authors.

Oh come on, about the edited part, what you just said is one of the most gigantic false generalizations I have ever heard. I never generalized that anyone who learns techniques from their master becomes them. What I was implying was that Naruto is becoming less and less himself (the guy we all knew and loved) as he learns all the 4ths techniques. If you dont believe it to be so, argue on this point, not by inserting irrelevant information. Really, I cant believe you took the word clone literally...

Also, even though the ninjas receive jutsus from their teachers, the great ones always rose up because of their own skills and jutsus.(kakashis chidori, the firsts wood jutsus, the 4ths hiraishin, the third for knowing almost all the jutsus of the village, and so forth).

And also, the more VALID reasons you state in defense of you answer, the more understandable and acceptable it becomes.

Finally, no offense but if you could fix the grammar a bit (especially in the first part) it would really be a big help in understanding your post.

[Edort4]

Sorry about my grammar english is my 4th language and I do a lot of mistakes. So dont hesitate to correct me .

What I said is not an opinion, is what happens in naruto. All the clans pass their jutsus to their descendants. Some of them to their pupils (i.e gay and lee). If what we all think is true , that naruto is the 4ths son, then is clear that he sould learn his techniques. Is not a matter of liking it or not is just how things are in the leaf village.

I agree with you about naruto changing, but if after 2.5 years he's still the same brat it would feel even more dissapointing. I like the little bit matured naruto we have now. Im not a fanatic of nothing dunno why you thought that. I understand that you would like naruto learning other jutsus and having his own style but its too soon to say that he hasnt his own style because he learns a new jutsus that we dont even know what is.

About the clones I was joking. I also agreed with you about having new own created jutsus. But as time goes by and people made more jutsus that gets harder. And naruto isnt a genius so I dont have any hurry in seeing him developing his own jutsus. Give him time.

[shinta|hikari]

He hasnt matured at all, that is the problem. I was referring to how he changed so much during the short time that was shown of him being a no one to the guy who was even recognized by the 5th. He is that kind of person, not a brat. But what happened to naruto was, he stopped changing, and for 2 years it seemed as if nothing happened.

Naruto isnt a genius, but he is quite talented in his own ways. He never needed time to learn the rasengan, and even the kagebunshin. What happened to all that? he suddenly learns at a turtles pace for those two years.

Naruto being the 4ths son isnt sure yet, so if the rest of what you said was based on that, its even worse than an opinion.

[ChaosK]

Umm sorry guys I seemed to have missed something but what is a hirasishin....thing?

[Edort4]

The definition for hiraishin is in some previous post if I remember correctly. Its the move the 4th used in the gaiden, that kind of teleport thing.

@Shinta is obvious that we read different mangas so there is no point in discussing.