front page, thing that says ch. 211 at the top of the page.
front page, thing that says ch. 211 at the top of the page.
R.I.P Captain America.
As much as I love watching anime and enjoy speaking with people who do. I live in another world as well. One that follows US laws and such. One where penalties actually have an effect. On the anime community, correction; on the online anime community it is very easy for me to break many laws. Get what I need an reassume a new identity. The consequences are minimal at best.Originally posted by: AssertnFailureBut as i mentioned, the law I reference is the one established through the anime community. I merely paralleled it with aspects of US copyright law as well. It's not hypocrisy if you interpret it with this regard.
But we are digressing a bit.
Your first post was not of legality. Breaking laws or any of this.
Your first post and original argument was that one should not donate to NarutoFan because the own may be lying about how much is needed to support the site. I would just like to note that the rest of the arguments we are having are by products and not your initial stance.
I'm saying that when it comes to business that if there is no transcendental force to regulate, that all is fair. Though, yes, many things may be unfair but life was never meant to be fair. There is no mythical universal creedo that says everything must be fair.Are you saying that fairness is only a concept for the self-centered? How about this take on it: I find it unfair that people who blatantly disregard rules are rewarded for it, while those more ethical, such as myself, am not.
Perhaps we should create a topic in the general forum as we are losing the subject of NarutoFan itself.
Here we have another clash of idealogies. I was taught to face tension and deal with issues. Underground communities hide. Hiding which is often attributed to cowardice. You're saying you'd rather lay low and let things be instead of standing up for what you believe is right.Another thing, I'm glad you brought up this argument, actually, as it further supports one of my earlier claims. As I said before, Narutofan brings an underground community to the surface. Those of us devoted to the anime cult are in a pretty good relationship with dub groups: Some of us that support localized distribution will purchase their products - Some of us that don't won't. If we don't then chances are we weren't their target audience anyway, and so the lost in profit from us obtaining our own free encodes is relatively negligable to the cost of enforcing any policy against us.
In the case of the anime community, the idea that anime should be free for those to enjoy.
People like me eh? So you're creating an us and them within the anime watcher group. My favorite fall back term elite or 1337. Are you judging me so harshly already based on one argument with some ideologies? I'm defending a man's business practice. He does not force people to donate or give him money. He does not make anyone do anything they don't already want to but you seem to be shifting this very personally.People like you, however, are the type that like anime, yet don't have the means to become part of the underground community. People like YOU are their target audience, and when your numbers dwindle in their profit margins, then that's when problems arise. If you wish to be part of this community, you have to make the sacrifices of learning how to navigate through its infrastructure. This is what seperates us from Viz's potentially marketable figures. Illegal licensed anime distribution was never meant to be a public invitation.
How do you think I've watched most of the series I've watched?
Before bit torrent, there was kazaa, before that I went to China Town in Manhattan and bought tapes, before that I borrowed from friends. What part of this string consitutes as them---oh wait "my people", no your term is fine; target audiences.
Target audience my ass. Not everyone is computer literate, right now you're being full of yourself. The number of people who don't know their ass from their elbows when it comes to computers could very well be happy in your "oh so elite underground community" but don't know or understand how. There are also people with things called lives. Not everyone can spend time and hours on end learning how to do this crap. Yes hours on end learning, just because you might have learned very fast does not mean everyone else does. Does this make you better than them, not really; it just makes you more skilled in one area.
The past few posts I've been civil and enjoying but this last one is quite offensive. Because you decided to end the argument the post before last, you now choose to attack me personal?
That is one of the points to posting on a message board.I'm glad you had fun.
To do so would bring that instantly in the lime light for other organizations which would defeat one of the arguments that AssertnFailure was standing behind.Originally posted by: Assassin
i think subbers should copywright thier subs. not the episodes, but the text files or whatever that they merge with the video. Since that is thier own work, they should be able to copywright it, and so no one would be able to get rich off thier hard work.
Im sure if you got a lawyer, he'd be able to find some way to accomplish this.
So to reiterate your point only those who are literate with computer technology should be allowed to have easy free access to such material? Am I right? If so then those who arn't have to pay to get such things? Correct? If this is true then the argument at hand about giving money to NarutoFan; is one which your stance is "let it be cause they are unskilled enough to figure it out and pay?"Originally posted by: Cyberdude93
You're right. I'm sorry. In fact, I'd like to make an anouncement. All TV rippers and warez groups suck because they don't have direct downloads. Piracy shouldn't be hard, everyone knows that illegal activity should be as easy as possible. And if anyone wants them, I have a list a bunch of Paypal passwords I phished for.
No, just no. I know fansubs are different from other things in that they're significantly more moral, but the fact is it's illegal. One last analogy, ever been on an Xbox mod chip forum? They are filled with tonnes of people who just buy the mod chip and wonder why when they flash their BIOS with FlashBIOS, all that happens is FlashBIOS appears. That's people not reading filenames let alone googling information. Do you sympathise with them? And bare in mind that many people don't mod for pirate games, they mod to play freeware games, backup games and videos, which is just as moral and still illegal (to be detailed, assuming you use a hacked BIOS).
I never said it should be made easy access. I just pointed out the poor attitude within your post. Heaven forbid you had to farm your food for a living or something of that nature. I'm sure you'd be completely lost in the field (no pun intended). Same with many other fields as no one knows everything.
Alright. I apologize for complicating this. It was my backhanded method of calling you a pompous ass. See, there I said it. Insert and insult on me if you want to make it even or don't to feel superor. Are we done with this?
Who is this we getting ripped off? I've not gotten charged a single cent for any manga.Originally posted by: Knives122
Hey Assertn, I suggest you dl whats on the front page, you'll get the most "kick" out of this
Bleach 7
and it reiterates the fact that Narutofan is trying to rip us off.
"we" refers to anyone stupid enough to pay for it when they know that they can get it for free.
R.I.P Captain America.
Incorrect. The one and only point to posting on a message board is e-penis.quote:
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I'm glad you had fun.
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That is one of the points to posting on a message board.
Yes, because everyone else from this forum was already quite aware of the inappropriateness of the deception itself. You forced me to go above and beyond what I thought was the necessary degree of content to support my claim.Originally posted by: Mixairian
Your first post and original argument was that one should not donate to NarutoFan because the own may be lying about how much is needed to support the site. I would just like to note that the rest of the arguments we are having are by products and not your initial stance.
This statement contradicts the one below it, as you tell me here to accept tazmo's improperly advantageous position, while below you say to fight for what you believe in.I'm saying that when it comes to business that if there is no transcendental force to regulate, that all is fair. Though, yes, many things may be unfair but life was never meant to be fair. There is no mythical universal creedo that says everything must be fair.
I know which battles are worth fighting for, and which are hopeless causes. Don't be naive to think that Narutofan will be a revolution that will shake the very foundation of copyright policies that started nearly 300 years ago. Besides, I like copyright protection.Here we have another clash of idealogies. I was taught to face tension and deal with issues. Underground communities hide. Hiding which is often attributed to cowardice. You're saying you'd rather lay low and let things be instead of standing up for what you believe is right.
Communism seemed like a good idea at one point too.In the case of the anime community, the idea that anime should be free for those to enjoy.
You associated yourself with a crowd before I ever did.People like me eh? So you're creating an us and them within the anime watcher group. My favorite fall back term elite or 1337. Are you judging me so harshly already based on one argument with some ideologies? I'm defending a man's business practice. He does not force people to donate or give him money. He does not make anyone do anything they don't already want to but you seem to be shifting this very personally.
Still supports my point. These people are target audiences. If they're not dedicated to going through the extra effort, then they'd more likely go to their nearest suncoast and pick up a sub/dub dvd of the latest toonami craze. Most people who aren't familiar with the undeground community don't even realize that this stuff even exists for free. They lead happy ignorant lives through the companies that dub their anime.How do you think I've watched most of the series I've watched?
Before bit torrent, there was kazaa, before that I went to China Town in Manhattan and bought tapes, before that I borrowed from friends. What part of this string consitutes as them---oh wait "my people", no your term is fine; target audiences.
Target audience my ass. Not everyone is computer literate, right now you're being full of yourself. The number of people who don't know their ass from their elbows when it comes to computers could very well be happy in your "oh so elite underground community" but don't know or understand how. There are also people with things called lives. Not everyone can spend time and hours on end learning how to do this crap. Yes hours on end learning, just because you might have learned very fast does not mean everyone else does. Does this make you better than them, not really; it just makes you more skilled in one area.
The past few posts I've been civil and enjoying but this last one is quite offensive. Because you decided to end the argument the post before last, you now choose to attack me personal?
EDIT: Mixairian, your approach to posting confuses me. You seem like someone who's knowledgable about what you speak of, yet you say things that just don't make sense. You accuse me of derailing my topic when I am merely responding to all your arguments (it just so happens that all your arguments focus only on the last line of my original post). You also claim to enter the discussion with no allegiance to either party, yet you make remarkably biased comments that translate to "It's ok for tazmo to lie because it's part of his business." Would you be ok with McDonalds starting a campaign proclaiming that a regular diet of their burgers can cure heart cancer? There's nothing wrong with that if it's for the good of their business right?
If I seem to be getting a little aggressive, it's because I'm frustrated at the low ratio of words typed from my fingertips to the words interpreted by your optic nerves. When I find myself arguing the same point repeatedly, it becomes less fun.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
If they aren't able to invest a couple of hours to learn how to use torrents, how are they capable of investing hours to watch the anime? I would think if somebody downloads anime, he also watches it. Especially if he paid for it. And it's not like they have to learn it anew every week. Only once is enough.Originally posted by: Mixairian
There are also people with things called lives. Not everyone can spend time and hours on end learning how to do this crap. Yes hours on end learning, just because you might have learned very fast does not mean everyone else does. Does this make you better than them, not really; it just makes you more skilled in one area.
These are the same bloody people who brilliantly contacted a band thinking a Naruto amv was an official work... And thus consequently and eventually caused damage to the amv makers. Cases like this prove illegal activities shouldn't be made too easy. You might call it elitism but it can also be called self-preservation.
As soon as that happens, anime would die. If it was free, no company could afford to make it. And the writers wouldn't do it if they starved making it.In the case of the anime community, the idea that anime should be free for those to enjoy.
The end.
Uh...no, my stance is that NarutoFan shouldn't exist. My stance on the people is that they should be willing to learn to get something illegalOriginally posted by: Mixairian
So to reiterate your point only those who are literate with computer technology should be allowed to have easy free access to such material? Am I right? If so then those who arn't have to pay to get such things? Correct? If this is true then the argument at hand about giving money to NarutoFan; is one which your stance is "let it be cause they are unskilled enough to figure it out and pay?"
First, from your 2nd to last post:I never said it should be made easy access. I just pointed out the poor attitude within your post. Heaven forbid you had to farm your food for a living or something of that nature. I'm sure you'd be completely lost in the field (no pun intended). Same with many other fields as no one knows everything.
I never actually assumed that, thought that, wrote that, etc.This is a rather unfair and arrogant statement to assume that all people are, can be and have the time to become online literate.
Secondly, quote from AssertnFailure:
I think that only the people who DO become online literate should be ABLE to get the illegal stuff. I know not everyone has time, but tough. Your farming analogy is pretty crap because food isn't illegal. If you don't want to play by the rules then you sure as hell shouldn't have it made easy for you. These people are becoming a risk to the fansub community provided there is someone willing to cater for them, in this case NarutoFan.He's bringing to the surface an entire community that for the most part operates underground and not in conflict with the dubbing companies, which will draw in too much attention from the companies as well as their target demographics. There's going to be a severe backlash, and I fear that it may extend to much farther than just Narutofan.com. If you can't see this, then you're the very type of naruto bandwagon fanboy I referenced in my previous post.
Hell back on an Xbox analogy. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that the most the non-technical community have heard about mod chips (if anything) are about people selling them with hundreds of games who get arrested. THESE people are the main reason that people who want to legally use a mod chip to run Linux have to go FURTHER underground than they would have had to.
Now think of the sellers as Narutofan, the non-technical buyers as the Narutofan Plus members, the people who want to run Linux on their Xbox as us people who use IRC and Bittorrent. The people with no knowledge will make the knowledgable people's lives harder, which is pretty unfair seeing how we're the people who according to you take time out of our lives to learn this stuff.
Jesus Christ, stop with the whole "Waah everyone in the frickin' world will make groundless insults except me" approach, especially since neither me nor most of the people in this topic have resorted to that. How about you read someone's post(s) before deciding if they're that kind of person.Alright. I apologize for complicating this. It was my backhanded method of calling you a pompous ass. See, there I said it. Insert and insult on me if you want to make it even or don't to feel superor. Are we done with this?
As frustrating as this debate is getting for some people, I've been enjoying the quality of writing that it's brought. It is starting to get rather circular though. At some point, you might all have to agree to disagree or else this could go on forever.
Assertn breaks into his technical vocabulary! [img]i/expressions/heart.gif[/img]low ratio of words typed from my fingertips to the words interpreted by your optic nerves
Almost as awesome as the time you made that equation for when the Naruto anime would catch up with the manga (which might need some updating due to the plethora of fillers lately).
I think this discussion is getting too advanced. I propose that we post some hentai and have a party instead, celebrating that Terra is right.
Not that I remember what this is about, but you get the point.
[img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]Originally posted by: Terracosmo
I think this discussion is getting too advanced. I propose that we post some hentai and have a party instead, celebrating that Terra is right.
Not that I remember what this is about, but you get the point.
PARTY! PARTY!
but Terra can't come since he's still got that gay Raiden sig/avatar going on. Change that shit already man [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img]
I don't donate anyhow! This has gotten way too serious, even for me! Relax guy!
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
Perhaps we should get together and brush up on our linguistics sometime, kitkat. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]Originally posted by: KitKat
Assertn breaks into his technical vocabulary!
Almost as awesome as the time you made that equation for when the Naruto anime would catch up with the manga (which might need some updating due to the plethora of fillers lately).
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
I would pay good money to see that.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Perhaps we should get together and brush up on our linguistics sometime, kitkat.
The wise man himself speaks once again. YOU HEARD THE MAN! BREAK OUT THE HENTAI!Originally posted by: Terracosmo
I think this discussion is getting too advanced. I propose that we post some hentai and have a party instead, celebrating that Terra is right.
Not that I remember what this is about, but you get the point.
Just a reminder that hentai is NOT allowed to be posted on the forum. Do not take Terra's enthusiasm as a sign that you may break the rules. If you want to share hentai, do so over PM.
GotWoot Moderator
The fact that we had a 9 month filler streak pretty much proves that the anime will never actually "catch up" to the manga, because whenever it gets close, they will just insert more filler. Without the filler, the anime would have caught up already.Originally posted by: KitKat
Almost as awesome as the time you made that equation for when the Naruto anime would catch up with the manga (which might need some updating due to the plethora of fillers lately).
Sorry for not reading those huge ass posts but from the bits I have read, why don't we just leave it at the point where people who want to pay can pay and those who don't don't need to pay. As far as legality is concerned I'm sure whoever is the rightful owner of the intellectual property right will come forward to stop any illegal activity when they want to. Naruto Fan is arguably the most popular Naruto site around and it is probably already been seen by the appropriate people.
It would seem to me that the powers at be are letting this continue perhaps because Naruto Fan, by having a large following, is a form of marketing for Naruto. The rights owners probably have taken a decison to allow Naruto Fan to continue to continue to attract interest in the anime and maintain interest from the existing viewers.
Interesting little note about what he is doing there.
For the longest time what he was doing was completely legal for the most part due to japan's interesting and for some odd reason clumsily worded laws as far as copyrights go. Which is all well and good for this little punk until now. Due to naruto being licensed (not to mention all the other animes, but lets stay on point) the video portion of the show is now Co owned by the Licensee. The great thing about the United States is we have no such troubles as far as copyright violations work, especially when it comes to making money off of a copyright you do not own. That includes the distribution of for a profit. Remember when you were kids and rented the Disney movies on VHS and they used to have the FBI warning about display in public places and dsitribution? They aren't kidding about that.
A quick detour! As a master at arms in the U.S. Navy, One of the main things we are trained for on the legal end of training is to look for dirty money and how to identify why its dirty. Distributing licensed anime in the United States for Profit is a felony, even if the kid is in some little backwater jungle country using a telegraph machine to talk to a modem. Although with the amount being small in relation to the massive cocaine problem our country has, I doubt we will be drawing any extradition paperwork anytime soon for this little bitch, but if anime becomes as main stream as hollywood movies are, or if the Licensee is acquired by a studio with that kind of political clout, this little boy (or girl who knows?) may be facing some serious felony charges in the United States. Good, I hate when people steal the work of others in order to pad their pockets and know that they are doing it!
From reading several posts here wondering and theorizing why no one has taken legal action against the owner of Naruto fan, its quite simple. The United States has no trial in absentia laws, so a defendant has to be present to stand trail in civil and criminal court. Since the owner of the site is apparently a minor, even if evidence was mounting (and companies with large dollars usually hire law firms that will spend a few years researching every piece of dirty laundry the kid and his family have, then file 24 hours before the statue of limitations on the first offense expires). Extraditing a minor is a complicated and frowned upon process that the military and the state department (who would be fielding this one, since the kid isnt a war criminal, then my office would be handling it >_<[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]. Its entirely possible they are waiting till he is of age in his country of residence in order to not seem barabric in their extradition request.
However if he lives in the United States, they are likely waiting for him to no longer be a minor, so they can not only nail him in civil court, but charge him as an adult in criminal court to. Hmm 700,000 members assuming 200K are in the US, and lets assume they only download 5 fan subs and no manga a piece. Thats 1,000,000 counts of Felony copyright infringement (altho they could never ever charge anyone with such a ludicrous amount, and they will probably settle after they make their point). This kid really needs to wise up and cut the shit before his 18th birthday.
The series was licensed back when episode 55 (or was it 54) was released, which is over 110 weeks (2 years) ago. I'm pretty sure the plus member system started after that.Originally posted by: ImitationSanen
Interesting little note about what he is doing there.
For the longest time what he was doing was completely legal for the most part due to japan's interesting and for some odd reason clumsily worded laws as far as copyrights go. Which is all well and good for this little punk until now. Due to naruto being licensed (not to mention all the other animes, but lets stay on point) the video portion of the show is now Co owned by the Licensee.
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
Ummm...I actually thought it was some time in April, '05 or something. It was around that time when I finally got fed up with that site and left. I remembered that a few months before they introduced the plus memberships, they also dramatically increased their donation goals (this was all before grand prizes, such as i-pods).
I'm sleepy.
wait.......yeah.....im confused now......
I remember the series was licensed at some big event....I thought it was Naruto vs Kiba.....
But TW translated up to the 60s, so it couldn't have been there I guess.....
Was it when Aone and ANBU split up for a short period of time during the tsunade fight? That doesn't seem right, cause then they joined up again shortly after.
Edit: Apparently it was licensed last Feb. So I was probably thinking of the Kiba vs Sakon fight?
No wait.....actually I think there was a false rumor of it being licensed during the Naruto/Kiba fight. Then Animesuki took it down based on that rumor, but put it back up a week later....and people were freaking out.
Ehh....I'll stop posting now
10/4/04 - 8/20/07
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