Customized computer?

[Buffalobiian]

My intel 510's been working fine since I sorted out the corrupting RAM that had been causing it to write incorrectly. I believe it's a marvell controller. I'm certainly sold on SSDs and boot speed is the least of my priorities since I reboot like once every 2 weeks or a month. Installation speeds, parrallel access and game loading times are just so much better. I could live without it, but I certainly wouldn't like to.

I'm tossing up between whether I want to upgrade my samsung 128 to a crucial 256 mSATA for my new laptop, but I think I'll wait till I run into space issues to see if I really need it. There's 40gb to spare on it right now and I can just use an external drive for media storage.

The bigger headache right now is whether I want to encrypt the entire system drive, or just some/all of the external one.

[Raven]

Hoping to get your opinions guys!

Deciding on a build for a new gaming PC after lots of reading of benchmarks, various forums and some conversations with friends.

I think I'm going mini:

CPU: Intel Core i5 3570K
Mobo: ASRock Z77E-ITX
RAM: G.Skill 8GB Kit (2x4GB) 2133Mhz DDR3
GPU: Gigabyte Geforce GTX670 Overclocked, 2GB
PSU: Corsair HX650
HDD1: Samsung 830 Series 128GB SSD
HDD2: Samsung 830 Series 256GB SSD
Cooling (CPU): Cooler Master Hyper 212
Cooling (case): Nexus Real Silent White LED 120mm Case Fan x 4
Case: BitFenix Prodigy Mini-ITX (white)

Things to think about:

- Is 8GB of RAM still enough these days, or should I be considering 16GB?
- PSU powerful enough, and "future proof" enough? The cost vs wattage increase doesn't hold up well as it goes higher than 650, IMO.
- Will all this hardware physically fit into the smaller case? Heatsink? PSU? From what I've read all signs point to yes.
- Single GPU solution - will it be powerful enough to run games at max settings at 2560*1440, if I decide to go down the path of a new monitor? Probably not all games, but I'll see how I go and maybe try out my friend's monitor on the machine before I buy one and do some tests. Can continue to run 1920*1200 in the mean time.
- This won't allow me to ever run SLI until I upgrade again entirely in a few years (new mboard and case at the very least). Am I OK with this? I suppose I can continue to upgrade the single GPU.

Decisions, decisions.

[Kraco]

I might end up building a new system soon as well, and the first thing I noticed when reading your post are the two Samsung SSDs. I intend to get those two as well, the smaller for system, the bigger for games. The CPU is the same as well, not that there were lots of realistic choices present at the moment. Different mobo, though, I'm considering ASUS P8Z77-V LE PLUS.

I'm looking at OCZ Fatal1ty Series 750W PSU, though. My current is 550W and I think 750W is the next logical step.

My current machine already has Antec KÜHLER H2O 620 closed water cooler for the CPU cooling and there's no way I'm ever going back to air cooling as long as CPUs require strong cooling.

I doubt I will go as high as you with the memory, though. Just 1600 with CL8 might be enough for me, although I still have to consider the options.

Edit: Maybe I should aim a bit higher with the memory as well, since it looks like a moderate price increase could buy speedier memory while still keeping CL under 10.

[Raven]

I've been reading a lot about RAM and it's apparent to me now that 1600 will be enough so I'm dropping it down a bit and saving some money.

I'm also going for an 80 plus PSU for more efficiency - looking at the OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W Modular.

This machine will hopefully be great for portability and going to LANs - the small light case with its carry handles and 2 SSD drives should make for an easy trip.

[Buffalobiian]

Are you going to have some other drive (network or external) for media storage?

It's not ideal to store GBs of movies on an SSD, and your set-up doesn't provide enough space for that anyway.

I might have gotten close to using 8GB of ram, but never over.

I'm not entirely sure how "future-proof" the PSU is.. but it'll be enough for now. Depends on how badly graphics cards suck up juice in the future. The capacitors do age in PSUs, and I remember something like up to 20% loss by around 5 years or something.

edit: I'm also highly skeptical about trying to run max settings at Super-HD resolutions.. but I can't tell you exactly. My own monitor is small.. and for better or worse that means my graphics cards last for ages. :P

[Raven]

I'll have a second PC (my current one) for storage that I'll stream over my network (for watchable media, at least). This new box will be primarily for gaming, and after checking my gaming habits over the last couple of years 256GB should be enough. If necessary I'll just have to be more diligent about uninstalling things I'm not playing, keeping backups, etc. but hopefully it won't come to that.

[Buffalobiian]

I meant your current set up not having enough for using the SSD as media drives, but as you've said if you're streaming across networks and stuff, the two SSDs would be enough for programs and games. Hell.. I've still got a bit of room left on my 240GB SSD and it's got all my programs on it.

[Kraco]

I've been reading a lot about RAM and it's apparent to me now that 1600 will be enough so I'm dropping it down a bit and saving some money.

That's interesting. Your first post made me think, against my initial gut feeling, that the speed gain might be significant after all, but if studying the issue brought you down to 1600, then I think I'll also stick to it. And only put a bit more money in to get the lower CL. I was always more of a memory latency person than a memory MHz person anyway. For no particular reason. Thanks for the heads-up!

I'm also going for an 80 plus PSU for more efficiency - looking at the OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W Modular.

ModXStream Pro 700W indeed seems to be 80+. I decided to get 80+ Bronze this time. My current Corsair PSU is 80+, and it makes sense for me to always go up in level. It's not like the Bronze certificate would increase the price that much, but it will mean slightly better components/optimization resulting in a few percents more efficiency (82% -> 85%).

[Xelbair]

my sound card is dieing(rear output for 5.1 audio isn't working) and its out of warranty and i can't decide which card should i get to replace it...
requirements:
Digital IN(optical, not coax) <- total must for me
Digital out(optical, not coax)
7.1 output

would be nice:
support for Front panel from creative fatality champion series.

positioning of sound is more important than sound quality, but it would be nice if quality was great too.

I would get Xonar card... but not even of them one has digital in, out and 7.1 output...


also - my headphones are getting close to death too - i'll try to fix them but cable is broken in most annoying spot to fix..

[Buffalobiian]

The Xonar HDAV1.3, when paired with the accessory card, seems to have what you're after.

http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio...specifications

It doesn't support the front panel though.

edit: It has a front-panel header for connection to front panels of PC cases. I don't know if the Creative front panel devices require anything extra in order to run. If they don't, then this card at the very least can provide input to the front header. I couldn't manage to find the manual to download from Creative so I can't actually see what the connection options look like.

Dolby Headphone DSP on that card will let you use virtual surround sound via stereo headphones too. I've used it with a pair of Audio-Technica AD900s, and performance was superb. (Those headphones, along with the cheaper AD700 are totally suited for competitive gaming under virtual surround. The large drivers have the best separation and positioning I've heard, and the lower emphasis on bass means footsteps and reload sounds are heard over explosions far more easily).

[Kraco]

also - my headphones are getting close to death too - i'll try to fix them but cable is broken in most annoying spot to fix..

I have switched the cable of my MBQuart headphones twice (the first replacement wire I bought turned out weird by starting to bleed green alien blood like liquid after a year, not funny). I had to pretty much completely disassemble the headphones, which is kind of annoying but also highly understandable. It's not like headphones would have too many parts anyway, though, so it's not such a big deal in the end.

[Xelbair]

if it was just dissasembling the headphones i would've done it already.

in the middle of the cable i have control for volume, mic mute, mic jax for xbox and few other things.
it connects to DAC(pretty meh one) via midi/ps2 connector, and it has 2 jack outs for headphones(mic and stereo)... and jack-ins are in rubber-like plastic shell(cone shaped 2cm*0,5cm base with 2 cm height)... cable broke 1mm into the plastic shell(no idea why - must've been faulty from beginning because i keep the cable on my desk).
checking out the card right now.

[Kraco]

Hah. Today I ordered the parts for my new machine, including the two SSDs. And today I read that Samsung will begin shipping new models, 840 series, of their SSDs from mid-October. Oh, well. It's not like the old 830 wasn't good enough for me.

[David75]

The 840 pro seems to be a beast. But the 830 has a very nice history, has great performance/reliability and is less expensive.

For lurkers, beware, the 840 "non" pro will probably be a bad SSD due to the new TLC nand Samsung plans to use.

So forget the 840, be sure you have a "840 pro" if you get a next gen Samsung SSD.

[Raven]

So who's good with case cooling and setting up fans? I'm pretty noobish. Advice?

My plan is to have 4 x 120mm:
-one intake at the front
-one exhaust at the rear
-one exhaust on the top panel
-one attached to the CPU heatsink

Currently looking at the Nexus Real Silent 120mm x 4, which runs at 1000RPM.

From what I've read at SPCR, it seems to be a reliable unit with a good balance of performance/cost. However I want to avoid powering any of the fans directly by the PSU molex connectors as I'll have no control over them. The CPU fan can be powered by the motherboard of course, and my chosen board has a slot for one other. But the other two will go uncontrolled.

So, I'm also looking at the BitFenix Recon fan control system to allow me to maintain the speed of each fan to find a balance between performance and noise.

Am I approaching this correctly?
Is this model of fan recommended for my setup?
Is the Recon overkill for my needs? I'm interested in making use of its temperature monitoring capabilities but I'd have to research how to set that up properly. I like the idea of manually setting each fan speed and monitoring the temperature all in the one place.

[Buffalobiian]

My plan is to have 4 x 120mm:
-one intake at the front
-one exhaust at the rear
-one exhaust on the top panel
-one attached to the CPU heatsink

that would work. Whether or not it's redundant is something you'll have to find out with trial error. According to SPCR, my Antec P182 doesn't actually benefit from having a 2nd exhaust at all. I'm also using Nexus 120mm fans.

Below is my setup just for reference, but I think you're aiming more for performance while I'm heavily biased towards low nosie:

-1x120mm Rear fan, 7v
-1x120mm CPU fan, 7v
-1x120mm GPU fan, controlled via fan controller and ramps up after a temp threshold is reached.
-1x80mm Nexus fan cooling the graphics card's VRM. I think they're at 7v.. or maybe 5v. I forgot this part.


Note that the nexus fans produce a soft clicking sound when mounted horizontally (as do all conventional sleeve bearing fans I believe). I wasn't blown away by their performance, and have wondered whether I want to give Noctua and Scythe fans a try in my next build. Things is.. I kinda went and bought these fans in bulk and still have like 5 sitting in my cupboard unopened, lol.


You sound like you want good airflow (my system runs REALLY hot, just within specs to not burn up pretty much), I'd definitely start with 1 front, and 1 back fan. Consider adding the extra fan if cooling isn't satisfactory. I remember reading that building a positive pressure (more intake fans) performs better than creating a negative pressure (more exhaust fans). What does the layout of your case look like?

I've got a Scythe Kaze fan controller of some description (I don't think it's sold by pccasegear anymore). I don't regret buying it. It doesn't get tweaked at all after the initial setup - where I set the minimum speed of the fan, along with the temperature threshold at which it should start spinning up. (currently only applied to my graphics card, though I should expect better cooling if I hooked every fan to it as well.)

And that's how it should work IMO. Everything should be automated after you set it and forget it. The option's still there if you like tweaking I guess.

Is the Recon overkill for my needs? I'm interested in making use of its temperature monitoring capabilities but I'd have to research how to set that up properly.

I'm going to assume that the Recon functions similarly to my own fan controller. Each dial is associated with a fan (each profile for yours I guess since it's all touch screen?), and each of those is also associated with a temperature sensor. The sensor is a metal strip attached to wires that will lead back to the controller. You use tape to secure the metal strip to something (heatsink, case etc).

When the temperature there heats up, the sensor will notice it and apply actions as per your profiles. I don't know if you can associate all fans with one single sensor, or if each fan must have their own. In my case, each fan must have their own sensor (I think).. which is why I didn't bother creating a mess with cables all over the place.

Once you physically stick the sensor on the heatsink, you'll need to fire up something like Furmark or Prime to see how the core temperature correlates with the measurements taken on the surface.

[Kraco]

You should use 140mm fans if possible, since they will move more air at lower rpm than 120mm. If I looked correctly at your case's specs, 140mm is possible. Although that means you'd need to leave unused the 120mm fans shipped with the case (why they included 120mm instead of 140mm in the first place is anybody's guess).

Another thing is that optimally you shouldn't have more exhaust than intake because otherwise the case will draw air in from all the holes instead of through the filters. You'll get more dust inside the case. The filter also hampers airflow, so it's not a simple 1-1 situation in any case.

I plan to start with two 140mm fans intake (though I might drop their voltages a bit) and one 140mm exhaust also driving the CPU cooler's radiator. I'll have to see how the temperatures react to that. Currently I have a top fan as well, but it really does wonders to make the machine more loud, so if it'd be nice to survive without it. Still, I plan to overclock, so who knows, I might need to put a low voltage 140mm top fan in the new system as well. It'll be Noctua. Noctua and Scythe are brands I trust, though especially Noctua is quite premium. The case comes with two Fractal's own 140mm, which I will leave in, though. At least their 120mm weren't too bad.

[Raven]

Thanks guys, good advice. Makes sense to have 140mm pushing more air at a lower speed. Yes Kraco, the case can take that size. I always planned to replace the stock case fans regardless.

So I want to blow in more air than is exhausted? Makes sense again. The reason I wanted the top exhaust in addition to rear is that my CPU heatsink will be very close to the roof of the case (just below where the top fan sits) so it seemed right to me to have something there directly above it to draw air, as well as behind it.

Noctua and Scythe are also my favoured brands, they're also quite expensive. In this particular instance someone recommended Nexus but I've never used them. It's probably worth it to put more money into this just for that guaranteed quality.

So with the temperature sensor, take the CPU for example, does it actually sit in-between the CPU and heatsink, or just near it? Never done it before, hence the reason for researching how to do it properly.

[Buffalobiian]

So with the temperature sensor, take the CPU for example, does it actually sit in-between the CPU and heatsink, or just near it? Never done it before, hence the reason for researching how to do it properly.

No, don't put anything in between the CPU and the heatsink (except thermal paste). The sensor (if you want to use the fan controller and not the mobo's CPU controller) can sit on a fin of the heatsink, or on top of the base like this:



I've never actually touched the base while the CPU is running, but I'm assuming that spot gets quite hot.

For my GPU I've just put the sensor on a fin. Putting it closer to the heatpipe rather than further should let it detect changes in temperature more sensitively.

As for your comment about having two fans at the top to try to increase airflow of the CPU, the main reason it doesn't work on some cases is that the intake is bottlenecking the pull anyway.

What does work rather well for CPU cooling, is to have one of those fans being an intake fan, blowing fresh air directly over the CPU, while the other is the exhaust fan that takes the air straight out again. The compromise is that the air doesn't flow from one side of the case to the other.. so you'll have to think about how you'd want to cool any other parts such as the GPU or the RAM.

Depending on your GPU cooling system, that may or may not be a problem. Conventional cooling modules on GPUs that use the small, high RPM, noisy fans have the advantage of pushing hot air straight out the back, while generally "custom" cooling solutions that sit a huge heatsink and fan on top toss the air back into the case and are more reliant on good circulation.

[Raven]

Awesome Bill, thanks. I'll keep all that in mind.

My GPU doesn't have an exhaust, and will definitely circulate hot air back into the case so a good overall efficient airflow system is a must.

I've been reading today about different fan bearing types and now I'm leaning towards hyrdodyamic even though it'll cost more. Jeez there's waaaay more to this than I thought, I clearly had no idea about cooling in my last build.