Customized computer?

[Buffalobiian]

I'm pretty close to pulling the trigger on this SSD: Patriot Wildfire. It uses the new Sandforce controller and has read/write speeds up to 500MB/s.

That's the sequential read/write max. What you really need to look at is 4kb random read/write performance since you'll encounter that more so than transferring movies in real life situations.

Thanks for the input David. I'm not tossing up between the Intel 510, Crucial M4 and Crucial C300 ~250GB models. The C300 is hard to find, and even when i do find it, its price isn't much of a bargain (if any) compared to the M4 at all. I don't know whether I should just jump on, or wait for a few weeks/months till price drops and reliability issues reveal themselves..

[Animeniax]

That's the sequential read/write max. What you really need to look at is 4kb random read/write performance since you'll encounter that more so than transferring movies in real life situations.

The Wildfire kicks ass at 4k random too, up to 85k IOPS which is twice most previous Sandforce models.

[David75]

That's the sequential read/write max. What you really need to look at is 4kb random read/write performance since you'll encounter that more so than transferring movies in real life situations.

Thanks for the input David. I'm not tossing up between the Intel 510, Crucial M4 and Crucial C300 ~250GB models. The C300 is hard to find, and even when i do find it, its price isn't much of a bargain (if any) compared to the M4 at all. I don't know whether I should just jump on, or wait for a few weeks/months till price drops and reliability issues reveal themselves..

Well, I mentionned the C300 because you sometimes have bargains due to its end of commercialisation, since the M4 is the replacement. The idea behind my answer to seek for good SSDs from last gen with 3Xnm nand flash, as 2Xnm nand flash seems to have performance and reliability problems...

The M4 is replacing the C300, should still be a good alternative, depending on customer service from Crucial.

The Wildfire kicks ass at 4k random too, up to 85k IOPS which is twice most previous Sandforce models.

The patriot still is a SF-2200 product, so I'm a little surprised they would get such high IOPS with the same controler/firmware unless they cheat somewhere (bench tool, or just a big lie?)
That also means you get the problems other SF based products get, so like for Crucial, you have to know wether Customer service is good when you have a problem and if they release firmwares once in a while...
SSDs remind me of the time when the HDD industry switched to PMR and reliability was sometimes poor (IBM GXP...)
It's very hard to know what products will be affected and how each firm will react.
I'm somewhat skeptical when with the same nand flash modules you see products from Intel perform 100 and SF products perform 200 for example... it's even more of a problem when you know that Intel manufactures those same modules...

So either there's a hidden truth, or there are reliability troubles coming... or both.

For example, just changing the sample size in a demanding SSD stress test shows that some SF products are tailor-made to do well in benchmarks... and their performance drops when you're out of the range of most benchmark tools. Behavior not seen on other products.

Example? 4kB random write with non compressible data at different batch size for the Vertex 3 240 GB:
- 1000 Mo : 72 MB /s
- 2000 Mo : 72 MB /s
- 4000 Mo : 52 MB /s
- 8000 Mo : 44 MB /s
- 16000 Mo : 44 MB /s

With the same test, the M4 is always at 58 MB/s
thing is, most benchmark tools use a small size batch...
(taken from the french site:http://www.hardware.fr/news/11462/ss...-x-benchs.html)
I'm quite lucky we have a very good french forum with quite skilled reviewers who can pinpoint problems in benchmarks and go beyond the usual press conference like reviews...
I think some of them were the first ones to pinpoint the JMF602 stuttering problem...

Still talking about benchmarks, it's always very strange to see many SSDs with very high synthetic results, not having a clear advantage over some intel SSDs that are supposed to be much slower on paper.

Be careful, we're in a bad phase for the SSD market. It's in full bloom and everyone wants their share with any means possible.
But I know no one wants to wait another 5 years so that things get clearer.

So, if you find a SSD with a good price, and nice customer support, it might be a safer bet than going for the "synthetic bench" beast.

[Animeniax]

The Wildfire uses a SF2280 controller and has posted excellent reviews with all the major review sites. Of course, since it's still fairly new, long term reliability and owner impressions are hard to find.

I just ordered the OWC Mercury Electra 6G 120GB. The benchtest numbers aren't as good as the Wildfire, but it's $70 less and has excellent reviews. Most importantly, it was recommended by some tech savvy guys at work.

[Archangel]

I'm pretty uneducated about this sort of thing but, in average, how much would it cost to buy a decent prebuilt PC?

I'm counting on you to figure out what "decent" stands for in this day and age.

[Buffalobiian]

Even, I have to ask, 'decent' for the everyday Joe, or decent for a gamer?

[Animeniax]

Regional pricing would make it impractical to estimate a price for a decent PC. In the US, I'd say around $600 without a monitor or speakers.

I got the SSD in the mail. Unfortunately I forgot to get a mounting bracket with it so it's another reason I haven't bothered to install it. The main reason being that I just want a working computer to play BFBC2MP with and to get on the internet. Makes me feel like a bad nerd.

[Kraco]

I don't know just how much cheaper Portugal is compared to Finland, but I'd say at least 500-600 euros to get one that also runs games somewhat. If you go by DS's standards, any computer that turns on and boots when you press the power button is decent... Those you can find for little more than 200 euros. Without a screen, like Ani said.

[darkshadow]

What? I clearly remember saying 400, I even linked the whole 400 euro crysis pc thing ;/.

[Edort4]

I have been thinking about changing my pc it's going to make 4 years soon. What time of the year is best to buy a new pc? I have been recommended to wait until the end of summer, cause its a slow paced time with holidays, so september-october.

[Munsu]

I have been thinking about changing my pc it's going to make 4 years soon. What time of the year is best to buy a new pc? I have been recommended to wait until the end of summer, cause its a slow paced time with holidays, so september-october.

Wait for November and all the Black Friday deals, and Cyber (Mondays?).

[Archangel]

Is there any way Europeans could make use of those holidays? We don't really have any similar counterparts on my end.

[enkoujin]

Here's an up-to-date guide for computer parts and their price ranges in US/CDN currency. Use currency exchange and all your other factors that are applicable to where you live.

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/7372/guideu.png

As for Archangel's predicament, I strongly suggest that you ask a local or regional forum in the country of your residence for consumer sales. Otherwise, if you're strictly looking at a "decent" pre-built computer (Microsoft Office, media and some "gaming"), you're probably looking at something like this that will last you at least five years:

HDD: 1 TB (5400 RPM usually default).
RAM: 4-6 GB DDR3 (bus frequencies shouldn't matter at this point).
Case: Not too important, but the bigger it is, the more fans you can put in for cooling and is easier to upgrade should you want to do so; make sure it dissipates heat well, though, that's very important (either water cooler or multiple fans).
PSU: 550 W+, with as many fans as you can and see if it's energy efficient of at least 80%+ for a smaller electric bill.
GPU/Video Card: Most older games (pre 2003?) can play perfectly fine on your chipset and often, the pre-built computers don't come with a video card, so you'll have to buy it separately yourself (512 MB is the minima these days).
Socket: AM3 for now...
CPU: You're probably looking at an Intel i3 or i5 processor.
Motherboard: Shouldn't matter what it is, but you should know what kind of specs it supports if you would want to upgrade your parts in the future to make the best out of your motherboard.

By pure currency conclusion, you're looking to spend about 500 Euros without the graphics card. From the looks of Europe and their economic policies, that might be somewhere in the mid 600 or low 700 Euros for the same computer in the US.

[darkshadow]

uhh no, computer parts are pretty much $=€, and in most cases the euro price is a bit lower; a 500 dollar pc would cost ~500 euros.

[enkoujin]

Ohshi-

Alright, thanks for clearing that up, darkshadow.

[Animeniax]

uhh no, computer parts are pretty much $=€, and in most cases the euro price is a bit lower; a 500 dollar pc would cost ~500 euros.

Yes but since 1€ = 1.42$, a 500€ PC costs you $710 for the same PC we get for $500.

[darkshadow]

Yeah, thanks for stating the obvious.

[Animeniax]

Sorry man, but you were trying to pass it off like 500 lbs of feathers =/= 500 lbs of stone. $500 will buy you about $350 in computing power if you live in Europe.

[darkshadow]

don't act like a freaking dumbass, USA's economic enviroment =/= any random EU country's economy. Just because you happen to have 500$ in spending power does not mean that spending power is equal to only $350 in any of the 27 different countries.
When it comes to electronics €=$. Now go troll somewhere else.

[enkoujin]

Oh, I also forgot to add, Archangel, you should definitely research all you can about computer parts as much as possible even though you're not buying a customized computer or its computer parts. You do not want to be misled by the sales associates at the retailer you will be purchasing from - they are only interested in meeting their store quotas and do not care about what you want (like any other retailer).