Bleach 70 Discussion

[masamuneehs]

This has nothing to do about episode 70 (well, sorta, as Hanatarou is in this episode)

Call me crazy, but I believe that Hanatarou may very well be an agent of Aizen's. Why?

1. Hanatarou was in charge of cleaning Rukia's cell before she was moved to the Tower. Yes, menial jobs like this are usually given to the 4th squad. But Aizen was already in control of Central 46 and could have specifically picked anyone he wanted to keep an eye on his objective.

I see assigning Hanatarou to clean Rukia's cell as a way for Aizen to gain information about what happened in the outside world. Rukia wasn't going to talk about Ichigo and the events outside to just anyone. Someone needed to befriend her, someone who she would see everyday and gain a friendship with, and then she would divulge information. This info would be critical because the people Rukia would talk about would probably be involved in the rescue attempt.

2. Hanatarou helps Ichigo and Ganju.
I never accepted Hanatarou's proclaimed reason for aiding them. I know that he's supposed to embody the 4th Division and their benevolent nature, but for the guy to go and betray the Gotei 13 for a person he's known for only a few weeks? At that point in the story there wasn't any real division in SS over the execution. Even Renji, who loves Rukia, wasn't yet ready to go against SS. People were like 'Yeah, I don't like it', but none of them were ready to go against it, not even Shunsui and Ukitake.

The Ryoka were, as Aizen said "a diversion". But at the point Hanatarou joined them they'd only really defeated Ikkaku and some grunt Shinigamis. No biggie. Then Ichigo beat Renji. Aizen even described this as the event that made the Gotei 13 get really serious and focused on the Ryoka. Its at this time that Hanatarou heals Ichigo, making sure that the 'diversion' can continue.

Hanatarou also guides Ichigo towards the place where Rukia is being held. He shows them the path in the sewers so they can get to the Tower (and create a bigger ruckus), rather than get bogged down in fighting more grunts.

Hanatarou also gives a knockout pill to the guards at Rukia's chamber. I don't know how strong these guys were supposed to be, but if they're in charge of guarding a jail when enemies as strong as Ichigo and crew are roaming about, they probably weren't pushovers. Only a recognized Shinigami could get close enough (and only a medic/errand boy like a 4th Squad member) and be trusted by the guards, avoiding another meaningless battle. At this time Hanatarou also produces the keys to Rukia's cell. Did he steal them off the guards? I don't know, but if not it means that he'd grabbed the keys at an earlier time...

3. Hanatarou "got seperated from his group and stumbled into Ichigo and Ganju"
I don't buy that shit for a second. The guy stops to tie his shoelace, gives his comrades (who don't really like him) the chance to leave him behind. Then he 'wanders around' until he bumps into Ichigo and Ganju about to fight an army of 11th Division. Hanatarou 'stumbles' and while trying to regain control knocks down a large number of the 11th squad guys, pushing his way towards Ichigo and Ganju, and suddenly laying at their feet, all helpless and naive, making himself an irresistable hostage.

4. The conversation between Hanatarou, Ganju and Ichigo when he's 'taken hostage'
After they escape the 11th Squad Ichigo and Ganju are debating what to do. They want to leave Hanatarou there.
But Hanatarou simply exudes wanting to help them from the first second. He introduces himself to them, so polite and friendly. He goes out of his way to tell them where Rukia can be found. He also volunteers to lead them there, via a secret route that only he can navigate. More importantly, (and one of the reasons why they decide to take him along) is that Hanatarou keeps emphasizing how weak, picked-on and friendly he is. Ichigo and Ganju decide that 'he can't be any real threat'.

If Aizen wanted to learn more about Ichigo (the main threat as revealed by Rukia's stories) then Hanatarou would HAVE to go to lengths to stay with them all.

5. Aizen, Gin and Tousen have all left SS. Do you really think Aizen's stupid enough to not leave behind a spy? He's going to lay low for an entire year, without keeping tabs on what's going on in SS? The man's around proven to us that he is not that stupid.

6. It's nice to have a friend who can bring you back to life. No, seriously. A healer would be a great asset to any faction, Aizen's included.

I know this theory is a little wild. Maybe Hanatarou just is a super-nice, super-meek, super-naive, super-weak, super-clumsy, super-social retard with a heart of gold. Maybe he really did want to save Rukia, whose 'voice put me at ease'.
Or maybe he's the best spy you could ever want, the last person anyone would suspect.

[ChaosK]

1. i'm pretty sure that unohana chose someone from her squad to clean her cell, i dont think central 46 pick stupid things like that.

2. he helped them only to help rukia, i dont remember him fighting anyone so he didnt exactly betray soul society.
by the time ichigo beat renji, it proved that grunts wouldnt take more than a second of his time, hanatarou also couldnt know the location of every single grunt, what if one happened to be walking around by the tower where rukia was kept? (granted this time it was zaraki...)
knockout pill...right, umm you think ichigo who by this point also took out zaraki already, couldnt beat a few more grunts?

3. ...acctually i dont see whats so hard to "buy" unless you saying he knew where ichigo and ganju was, and if thats your case, aizen had no way of seeing which of them was strongest at that time, if he were to send hanatarou to get them, how would he know which one to send to? aizen also knew yoruichi was there, so technically the smartest thing to do would've been to tag along yoruichi, but then again, how do you tag on with a cat? wait i'm just ranting here...

4. lets see, it was either help them, and save the girl he was already friends with...or stick around getting left alone, wandering around soul soceity some more and running into more 11th division people to beat on him...i'm pretty sure i would've chose the first one.

5. aizen described where he was going as above the heavens...what makes you think he cant see everything already? of course, he might not be able to, but thats as much of a inference as you saying hanatarou is a spy. i dont think aizen would leave behind a weak spy...and also, i'm pretty sure all who were paired up with aizen wanted more power too, by staying in soul society, that person would be excluded...so why would anyone do it??

6. sure a healer would be a great asset, but then why would aizen go for hanatarou? besides if people from 4th division can use their reiatsu for healing, why cant aizen?

i dont have anything against you, i was just pointing out how some of your points in this theory are invalid.

[Kraco]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
2. Hanatarou helps Ichigo and Ganju.
I never accepted Hanatarou's proclaimed reason for aiding them. I know that he's supposed to embody the 4th Division and their benevolent nature, but for the guy to go and betray the Gotei 13 for a person he's known for only a few weeks? At that point in the story there wasn't any real division in SS over the execution. Even Renji, who loves Rukia, wasn't yet ready to go against SS. People were like 'Yeah, I don't like it', but none of them were ready to go against it, not even Shunsui and Ukitake.

Hanatarou is a nobody. It's another matter for a captain or a vice-captain to rebel against the order than for a lowly relief squad's noname member. He probably didn't feel a huge sense of responsibility and loyality to the SS and Gotei 13, but much more for people like her captain, and then Rukia, and lastly Ichigo. If you don't see the whole big picture of how a large organization works, it's easy to just look at individual components and be awed by them.

As a meak and weak member of 4th squad Hanatarou probably had never achieved anything, yet now was filled with the urge to do something to save Rukia. And with Ichigo an opportunity was given. That need to do something overcame his fear of repercussions (maybe he trusted Unohana wouldn't kill him) and his questionable loyalty.

And other than that he simply existed to give the script writers better opportunities to write more realistic combats as there was somebody to fix up Ichigo. And also allow Ichigo to travel quickly through the SS without tedious fights at every corner, like you would have otherwise expected.

And those guard guys clearly were pushovers for two reasons: They looked like bullies and no real fighters would have been given such a boring job.

[el_boss]

The only good things about Bleach now are the stuffed animals and when they're at school. They should reduce the fillers to just these two things.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Shit episode, for the simple fact that Rukia was animated dog-ugly.

[Ero-Fan]

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Shit episode, for the simple fact that Rukia was animated dog-ugly.

Haha, I couldn't have said it better. They are going to fuck with the storyline just enough so that I have to actually keep these damn filler episodes instead of deleting them when fillers are over, aren't they? God, never thought I'd hear myself say it, but why couldn't they do these like Naruto fillers? All they do is shit missions, why couldn't they just kill a bunch of crap hollows?

[Darknodin]

I acutally found this interesting. granted the animation was not really good (although I never really cared for the animation for the fights in bleach except the one with Kenpachi... they are nowhere near the level of something like lets say, Samurai Champloo). And yea, the snakes and such are like Zanpakutohs (sp?), so that's why you can't cut them. its not a Bleach-style story (even if its a kind of undead), but its intriguing.

[Deadfire]

Originally posted by: el_boss
The only good things about Bleach now are the stuffed animals and when they're at school. They should reduce the fillers to just these two things.

Exactly... they should have done the fillers like Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu and just have it about their school lives and such. I'm sure it would make for good fillers

[heero]

1. yay gotwoot is back
2. this show is getting really gay

[Terracosmo]

Man I haven't watched 5 Bleach episodes. Amazing how easily you get behind when stuff like this starts. Guess I'll have to try and catch up...

...the fillers are ending soon right?

[Kraco]

It doesn't look like they will end any time soon. In fact the filler story is just starting.

[burnout]

I have some questions on Hanatarou that I would like people to answer if they can:
What exactly was Hanatarou doing/supposed to be doing when he bumped into Ichigo and Renji?
When exactly did Aizen take over Central 46? Was it before Rukia got sentenced to death?
Who healed Ichigo after the fight with Kenpachi? Was it Hanatarou or Unohana?
Does anyone remember what Hanatarou said to Ichigo regarding finding the Hollow mask while he was healing Ichigo after his fight with Renji?
When was the last time we saw Hanatarou in the SS arc? What was he doing?

I don't have those episodes with me, so if anyone has them on hand and feels like doing some investigating I'd appreciate it. I just don't trust Hanatarou...[/quote]


well out the top of my brain i could anser some of these questions

1. i think he was looking for a job or food (dunno for shure)
2. aisen took over cent.46 befor rukia got the death sentence(he actuelly made that order)
3. actuelly it was juritchy (or something like that )
4. i quote "you were lucky that you had this mask in you pocket or you'd be dead richt now
5. we saw him last at the last battle or just befor it

i know it has bin ansered but i wanted to anser it anyway [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

and i knoe my spelling sucks at some points but hey i'm dutch