Religious cartoon causes outrage in the muslim world

[Splash!]

The way the media represents it makes it seem that the whole Muslim world is using violence to make their point. I don't think that depiction can be justified, after all these specific examples come out of syria and palestine, which are troubled regions at the epicentre of most of this west vs Islam tension. I am pretty sure that the majority of the muslims offended are probably using peaceful means to make their point. One also has to recognize that the media plays an important part in creating part and whole fallacetic perceptions

[Dug88]

Originally posted by: splash
The way the media represents it makes it seem that the whole Muslim world is using violence to make their point. I don't think that depiction can be justified, after all these specific examples come out of syria and palestine, which are troubled regions at the epicentre of most of this west vs Islam tension. I am pretty sure that the majority of the muslims offended are probably using peaceful means to make their point. One also has to recognize that the media plays an important part in creating part and whole fallacetic perceptions

Yeah exactly and when the media is controlled by those who are either in power or by those who have connections to those in power the media will show only what the governments want to make it look like there is a threat and that the people need to be protected from it. It's not just muslims take the cold war for example how many Americans today are still afraid of communists? People need to make sure they understand all the facts before deciding what to do and not just take in what the news tells them.

[Deadfire]

Originally posted by: Dug88

Originally posted by: splash
The way the media represents it makes it seem that the whole Muslim world is using violence to make their point. I don't think that depiction can be justified, after all these specific examples come out of syria and palestine, which are troubled regions at the epicentre of most of this west vs Islam tension. I am pretty sure that the majority of the muslims offended are probably using peaceful means to make their point. One also has to recognize that the media plays an important part in creating part and whole fallacetic perceptions

Yeah exactly and when the media is controlled by those who are either in power or by those who have connections to those in power the media will show only what the governments want to make it look like there is a threat and that the people need to be protected from it. It's not just muslims take the cold war for example how many Americans today are still afraid of communists? People need to make sure they understand all the facts before deciding what to do and not just take in what the news tells them.

It's hard for people to do that unless raised that way. A person is usally must know what is happening in the world and because the media (in any form) give him/her the right for that knowledge. Some know that the media isn't telling everything, as well they know it's one-sided but that what the media has and always been like. Everything has more then 2 sides to it but the media for the sake of the people watching them pick one side and stick to it. Your of a group that knows there are more sides to it because the one side they protray is not one you see things though. Media is only as strong as those that use it. the side they protray is always the face of the socity they represent. So let thuse people think what they want to think because the media is only telling them what they want to hear.

[Dug88]

Originally posted by: Deadfire

Originally posted by: Dug88

Originally posted by: splash
The way the media represents it makes it seem that the whole Muslim world is using violence to make their point. I don't think that depiction can be justified, after all these specific examples come out of syria and palestine, which are troubled regions at the epicentre of most of this west vs Islam tension. I am pretty sure that the majority of the muslims offended are probably using peaceful means to make their point. One also has to recognize that the media plays an important part in creating part and whole fallacetic perceptions

Yeah exactly and when the media is controlled by those who are either in power or by those who have connections to those in power the media will show only what the governments want to make it look like there is a threat and that the people need to be protected from it. It's not just muslims take the cold war for example how many Americans today are still afraid of communists? People need to make sure they understand all the facts before deciding what to do and not just take in what the news tells them.

It's hard for people to do that unless raised that way. A person is usally must know what is happening in the world and because the media (in any form) give him/her the right for that knowledge. Some know that the media isn't telling everything, as well they know it's one-sided but that what the media has and always been like. Everything has more then 2 sides to it but the media for the sake of the people watching them pick one side and stick to it. Your of a group that knows there are more sides to it because the one side they protray is not one you see things though. Media is only as strong as those that use it. the side they protray is always the face of the socity they represent. So let thuse people think what they want to think because the media is only telling them what they want to hear.

Thats all well and good when it's just a small group of people but when you have the majority of a country believing something like that it becomes more serious because if the majority of a nation is uneducated to what is actually happening in the world then they will let not question when their leaders do something based on what they are telling them is true. Basically what I'm trying to say is that when the government controls the media and all you have is what they are telling you the government can get away with whatever they want because no one will question them because they believe it is right.

[Deadfire]

Because people as uneducated on world affairs are happier that way. Our goverment is formed because of Social Contract. It is one of the most influential theories of government in the past two hundred years, on which modern democracy and most forms of socialism are founded. The social contract theory holds that governments are created by the people in order to provide for collective needs (such as safety from crime, poverty, illiteracy) that cannot be properly satisfied using purely individual means. Governments thus exist for the purpose of serving the needs and wishes of the people, and their relationship with the people is clearly stipulated in a "social contract" (a constitution and a set of laws) which both the government and the people must abide by. If a majority is unhappy, it may change the social contract. If a minority is unhappy, it may persuade the majority to change the contract, or it may opt out of it by emigration or secession. Mass media plays a crucial role in forming and reflecting public opinion. (that same public opinion that made the goverment) It communicates the world to individuals, and it reproduces modern society's self-image. It has to be pointed out that because some of the mass media produce material which often is good, impartial, and serious, they are accorded a high degree of respect and authority. But in practice the ethic of the press and television is closely related to that of the homogeneous establishment, providing a vital support for the existing order. But independence is not  mere cover, it is central to the way power and ideology are mediated in societies like ours. The public are bribed with good radio, television and newspapers into an acceptance of the biased, the misleading, and the status quo. The media are not, according to this approach, crude agents of propaganda. They organise public understanding. However, the overall interpretations they provide in the long run are those which are most preferred by, and least challenging to, those with economic power.

[Dug88]

oops wasn't finished.

[Deadfire]

Originally posted by: Dug88
So basically you want a society where nothing is questioned and where society is ignorant of the decisions made by "those with economic power" while they decide how the life of the average person is ran the decisions being made are only for them to know about in full and so we end up in a world much like that where we are told what to believe and when.

That is what the average person decided to have, because that is what his society decided for him because of his actions or the actions he wanted to make. So yes a world of ignorance is bliss to him

[Carnage]

I think the whole world should just watch anime. Then people would be alot cooler.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Hhhhhhmmmm........I don't really like dumbfuck protesters (I am talking about the people in ero-fan's pics) who are SO offended by a comic which doesn't even threaten them. They could just ignore it. BUT THEN AGAIN! The publishers of the comic were dumb enough not to know this would happen. Unless the guys who put out the comic showed it on PURPOSE to rally up all the muslims because he is really a secerete spy from like Al-Qaueda. It'd be funny if that were true.

[Dug88]

So basically what you want is world where people are ignorant to the decisions made by "those with economic power"
and all their decisions about the lives of average people can be made while only telling us what they want. A society where everyone is told what to believe and when. While those select few control the world and everything that happens people are left with the "news" they are fed and their lives are controlled by these people. Yes I believe that it is a form of propaganda because we are not given whole truths we are only told enough so that when the government makes a decision we will go along with it. In that regards then there is no difference between democracy and the cruelest dictator either way they have absolute power it's just the means of control that are different.

[Dug88]

sorry double post

[Carnage]

Originally posted by: Dug88
So basically what you want is world where people are ignorant to the decisions made by "those with economic power"
and all their decisions about the lives of average people can be made while only telling us what they want. A society where everyone is told what to believe and when. While those select few control the world and everything that happens people are left with the "news" they are fed and their lives are controlled by these people. Yes I believe that it is a form of propaganda because we are not given whole truths we are only told enough so that when the government makes a decision we will go along with it. In that regards then there is no difference between democracy and the cruelest dictator either way they have absolute power it's just the means of control that are different.

Wait, thats almost exactly the way it is now.?!?!?!? Im confused.

[Deadfire]

Originally posted by: Dug88In that regards then there is no difference between democracy and the cruelest dictator either way they have absolute power it's just the means of control that are different.

A goverment is a goverment, there are different forms of it, but like you said they have different means of control.

[Dug88]

Originally posted by: Deadfire

Originally posted by: Dug88In that regards then there is no difference between democracy and the cruelest dictator either way they have absolute power it's just the means of control that are different.

A goverment is a goverment there are different forms but like you said they have different means of control.

Which is why there needs to be government that rather than controlling society they work with it to create a place where people can all make informed decisions about their country. That should start with educating people now so they can understand what is wrong in the world because if things keep going as they are even the most ignorant person will not be saved.

[Deadfire]

Originally posted by: Dug88

Which is why there needs to be government that rather than controlling society they work with it to create a place where people can all make informed decisions about their country. That should start with educating people now so they can understand what is wrong in the world because if things keep going as they are even the most ignorant person will not be saved.

You are thinking of Liberalism which is an ideology, or current of political thought, which holds liberty as the primary political value. Liberalism seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on the power of government and religion, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a free market economy that supports private enterprise, and a system of government that is transparent. This form of government favors liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law, and an equal opportunity to succeed. Liberalism rejected many foundational assumptions which dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, and established religion. Fundamental human rights that all liberals support include the right to life, liberty, and property. In many countries, modern liberalism differs from classical liberalism by asserting that government provision of some minimal level of material well-being takes priority over individual rights.

The impact of liberalism on the modern world is profound. The ideas of individual liberties, personal dignity, free expression, religious tolerance, private property, universal human rights, transparency of government, limitations on government power, popular sovereignty, national self-determination, privacy, enlightened and rational policy, the rule of law, fundamental equality, a free market economy, and free trade were all radical notions some 250 years ago. Liberal democracy, in its typical form of multiparty political pluralism, has spread to much of the world. Today all are accepted as the goals of policy in most nations, even if there is a wide gap between statements and reality. They are not only the goals of liberals, but also of social democrats, conservatives, and Christian Democrats. So it is a system that is just like the others as it has to have control.

Before an explanation of this subject proceeds, it is important to add this disclaimer: There is always a disconnect between philosophical ideals and political realities. Also, opponents of any belief are apt to describe that belief in different terms from those used by adherents.

[Dug88]

Originally posted by: Deadfire

Originally posted by: Dug88

Which is why there needs to be government that rather than controlling society they work with it to create a place where people can all make informed decisions about their country. That should start with educating people now so they can understand what is wrong in the world because if things keep going as they are even the most ignorant person will not be saved.

You are thinking of Liberalism which is an ideology, or current of political thought, which holds liberty as the primary political value. Liberalism seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on the power of government and religion, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a free market economy that supports private enterprise, and a system of government that is transparent. This form of government favors liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law, and an equal opportunity to succeed. Liberalism rejected many foundational assumptions which dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, and established religion. Fundamental human rights that all liberals support include the right to life, liberty, and property. In many countries, modern liberalism differs from classical liberalism by asserting that government provision of some minimal level of material well-being takes priority over individual rights.

The impact of liberalism on the modern world is profound. The ideas of individual liberties, personal dignity, free expression, religious tolerance, private property, universal human rights, transparency of government, limitations on government power, popular sovereignty, national self-determination, privacy, enlightened and rational policy, the rule of law, fundamental equality, a free market economy, and free trade were all radical notions some 250 years ago. Liberal democracy, in its typical form of multiparty political pluralism, has spread to much of the world. Today all are accepted as the goals of policy in most nations, even if there is a wide gap between statements and reality. They are not only the goals of liberals, but also of social democrats, conservatives, and Christian Democrats. So it is a system that is just like the others as it has to have control.

Before an explanation of this subject proceeds, it is important to add this disclaimer: There is always a disconnect between philosophical ideals and political realities. Also, opponents of any belief are apt to describe that belief in different terms from those used by adherents.

Hell lets just say fuck it and overthrow all governments and have a global anarchy[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
But seriously ya liberalism would be good but when when you come down to reality nothing like that whether it be communism, socialism and the like will work in reality it's human nature to have people always trying to be better than others in the end I guess what we have is better than some but people really should try because otherwise there won't be anything left for long.

[Deadfire]

It took awhile and I had to bust open my big words. but you understand now, which is good. It is Human nature that makes this world what it is.

[Dug88]

No I knew that from the beginning I just like being a shit disturber[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[Ero-Fan]

Time to kick this thread back onto the top and back on topic:
News
Found this article in my daily news boredom sessions this morning.
For those to lazy to click and read, basically Iran has decided to hold a contest to see which of its papers can produce a cartoon strip about the Holocaust, to see how the west reacts. This ought to be fun. Anyone else feel we should just laugh at them and keep producing more and more insulting cartoons? Well, I have more opinions, but I'll keep them for until you guys and gals all react to this.

[el_boss]

lol that's a pretty funny idea, but it's probably not that smart to fight fire with fire. Though I think "the west" will pretend it doesn't bother them just to show that they are better than the muslims.

[Ero-Fan]

Originally posted by: el_boss
lol that's a pretty funny idea, but it's probably not that smart to fight fire with fire. Though I think "the west" will pretend it doesn't bother them just to show that they are better than the muslims.

Yeah, unless they show really violent images of Jews being masacared in conscentration camps. And I think we should show one of their leaders (religious or political, doesn't matter) dying in a most hideous manner if they do that. But I doubt you'll see us(the west) protest anything. Maybe Israel will use it as an excuse to attack. They probably hate this guy anyways. Exerpt from the article:

Both the paper and the cartoon center are owned by the Tehran Municipality, which is dominated by allies of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who is well known for his opposition to Israel.

Last year Ahmadinejad provoked outcries when he said on separate occasions that Israel should be "wiped out" and the Holocaust was a "myth."

Sigh, this could get out of hand if I prove right about Israel. Not that I see why they would, just its possible.