Religious cartoon causes outrage in the muslim world

[Ero-Fan]

Just to get back on topic..

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Edit: I still agree that the prime minister is a fucking idiot for not solving the situation at this point however, even though I can probably relate to the feelings of "what the hell is the problem?" that he must be feeling. Being prime minister means huge responsibility, and it amuses me how he can't even step up and make an apology for this even though he might not understand why.

Someone explain to me how it is the leader of a nation's responsibility to appologize every time some member of their country writes something offensive. If one person from a nation goes on a mini killing spree (I know, its extreme compared to a funny comic, thats my point) is the president/prime minister/whatever supposed to appologize as if its their nation's fault? Where does it end? Doesn't he have better things to do then worry about a bunch of overreacting diplomats' feelings? And if you're country/religion/organization is stupid enough to blame an entire nation for the writing of a comic strip(by one, maybe a few writers), which doesn't even kill anyone, then you deserve to be ignored. And don't tell me they're not blaming the country, since they asked the head of that country for an apology. Can't blame a country in more ways than that.

[Assassin]

you're rite, its not his responsibility to apologize. His responsibility is to look after this people, and keep good relations with others. So although he doesnt have to apologize, he DOES have a responsibility to meet with other embasadors and hear thier concerns. That is exactly what his job entails. When the heads of 15 nations come knocking at your door, you dont say "sorry im busy" and turn them away. You hear them out regardless of how you feel about the situation. Thats what diplomacy is all about.

@terra: The reason you think that they were taking to too seriously to begin with is because you dont fully undertand thier reasons. Not that i blame you, not many non-muslims can be expected to understand why this is a problem in the first place. The thing is, muslims take thier religion very seriously (bet you did see that comming), and displaying god or any prophet in any form is a VERY bad thing. Add that to what the cartoons actually showed, and the current situation of teh world, especially the mideast, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Think of it this way. In terms of christianity, it would be as if i went back to the time of the crusades, dressed up as jesus, went to the vatican and started stripping in front of the pope. How do you think the christians would react?

It all goes back to what kitkat said about religion and faith being very different.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Another example of people with too much time on their hands throwing a bitch-fit over something no one forced them to read instead of prioritizing real fucking problems..

Idiots. This reminds me very much of Malaysia's current ban on black metal.

[Carnage]

What ^ said. They didn't have to read it. But, then again.......Interestlingly enough the editor or whoever published the comics not knowing that this would happen is an idiot.

[Jadugar]

Originally posted by: Gotwoot Moderator
Maybe some of the mods would let him get away with it, but I won't. The mods can't be browsing the forums 24 hours a day, and different mods have different styles and ways of dealing with things which is why you won't see complete consistency. But the bottom line is: Yes, the rules apply to everyone. DragonOutlaw gets a vacation for a few days.

My heart just filled up with admiration for Gotwoot Moderators. Long live the Don.



Atleast I can go back to the discussion now.

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
You people say that what got the ball rolling was that the danish prime minister refused to meet up with the offended parties.
Well my original point was that they were taking it too seriously by even wanting to meet the prime minister to begin with.

Taking it too seriously. We are talking about 15 nations here, I would say thats a big deal. If thats not a big deal then what is? In your words define "big deal". I am curious about what would it take to make you think its a big deal? How many people live in those 15 countries?

Maybe the leaders of those nations are more concerned about their people unlike the Danish Prime Minister.

[Splash!]

my my, i am actually surprised that some people are actually using their reason when talking about this issue. I would not come to expect this from many other forums. Guess gotwoot does have standards

Well my original point was that they were taking it too seriously by even wanting to meet the prime minister to begin with.

@Terra Anyone who takes their religion seriously WILL take the matter seriously. Thats simply how it is!
Also the leaders of the muslim nations do have their own people to answer to. I would like to know what was the BIG DEAL in peacefully discussing the matter?
And yes i do agree with you the the Danish PM is an idiot

[Terracosmo]

Ero-Fan said:
Someone explain to me how it is the leader of a nation's responsibility to appologize every time some member of their country writes something offensive. If one person from a nation goes on a mini killing spree (I know, its extreme compared to a funny comic, thats my point) is the president/prime minister/whatever supposed to appologize as if its their nation's fault? Where does it end? Doesn't he have better things to do then worry about a bunch of overreacting diplomats' feelings? And if you're country/religion/organization is stupid enough to blame an entire nation for the writing of a comic strip(by one, maybe a few writers), which doesn't even kill anyone, then you deserve to be ignored. And don't tell me they're not blaming the country, since they asked the head of that country for an apology. Can't blame a country in more ways than that.

If it can help the situation, then yes, it is the leader of the nation's responsibility. Since he is the one who has the power to change the situation, obviously. Even if it isn't necessary his "fault", or hell, even the nation as a whole's "fault", he still holds the key to set things straight. That's what being a leader is all about.

Assassin said:
Think of it this way. In terms of christianity, it would be as if i went back to the time of the crusades, dressed up as jesus, went to the vatican and started stripping in front of the pope. How do you think the christians would react?

I don't know about them, but I'd laugh. And as you say, yes, they take it extremely-beyond-limits seriously. They shouldn't. As for the faith thing, that doesn't shed any light on things for me. If faith is to be considered "the very foundation of one's life" and all that, then we all have a kind of faith based on interests and beliefs. One should always be able to distance oneself from what others think of that. I don't think that religious people by nature are stingier (or are they?), so they should very well learn to be able to deal with it like all others have to.

Azazel said:
Another example of people with too much time on their hands throwing a bitch-fit over something no one forced them to read instead of prioritizing real fucking problems..

Yep, Azazel wins. My sentiments exactly.

[The Heretic Azazel]

What i want to know is, if their faith is so strong, why does EVERY LITTLE THING seem to threaten it?

[Splash!]

its not a matter of their faith being so strong because something like this really wont affect their faith if thats what you think. It will on the other hand create unnecessary hatred towards others and that is what the leaders of the muslim nations were trying to avoid. People all have their soft spots in different matters. Maybe not the same matters as everyone else. There is already enough hatred to go around between different religions and peoples. I think thats the matter that the leaders when most concerned about when they approached the danish prime minister. Words are deadly weapons after all.

[DB_Hunter]

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
What i want to know is, if their faith is so strong, why does EVERY LITTLE THING seem to threaten it?

The cartoons are not threatening, they are offensive.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Weren't they offensive to their faith?

Would someone mind pming me the pictures? I'm not judging what should be offensive and what shouldn't, I just want to see what the fuss is about. It just seems to me there would be an entirely different and more subtle way of taking care of the matter.

[Assassin]

Ya, there was a subtle way, and the danish prime minster refused it.

[Xollence]

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/religion

This is getting out of hand. I agree with Azazel, they should just get over it and move on.

---

Doesn't their religion teach against using violence? I think the way they're protesting is even more offensive to their faith than the stupid cartoons.

[Terracosmo]

Indeed. But hey, "it's all in the name of god" [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

[Assassin]

and the situation goes from bad to worse. This is just the excuse those idiots need to start blowing things up again. god how i hate these idiots.

[Kraco]

Maybe Norwegians and Danes should torch the Syrian embassies. I bet they would never see that coming!

I wonder if the Danish Prime minister still insist he can't or won't do anything about it, other than lecture those countries about the freedom of the press (I bet that helps a lot!).

[ChiaCheese]

I'm all for freedom of speech but the newspaper and the Prime Minister really should've practiced a little responsibility. Publishing inflamatory pictures in a widely released newspaper is just asking for trouble and there is no way they couldn't have known this. I am totally opposed to people that protest and try to bring up legal actions over GTA:SA because it's a mature game made for and marketed to a mature audience. But if the Los Angeles Times one day decided to print a page of porn that will obviously upset the religious right, families and the sensitive types i would say they have a right to be upset and the Times should take responsibility for their actions. The differance being is the Times has set itself as a publication that's for all types and ages and people wouldn't expect to be offended so putting porn in there wouldn't be much differant than putting it on a billboard. I guess a better example, what with the superbowl today, would be the Janet Jackson haltime incident. People weren't watching the halftime show expecting to see Janet's saggy boob but there it was. I'm totally against censorship but I also believe that people have to take responsibility for their actions and make responsible decisions.

[Splash!]

i simply dont see what else the person who published the cartoons was trying to do other than provoke the sentiments of the people . I mean if he was just focusing on humour, there are plenty of topics to go about that will make other people laugh much more. I dont care what you say, ridiculing any religion through a cartoon is just wrong, i dont care how you look at it. What purpose is there to be served other than insulting the targets of the cartoon anyways. A good laugh?? i dont think so. the 'Freedom of Speech' argument has already been used to justify things like these many times already. It just doesnt cut it and is a rather blatant excuse to accept any responsibility.

[KitKat]

ChiaCheese, I don't know if your analogy really represents the situation very well. I think it's a lot more personal than just happening to see something you classify as offensive. Maybe a better analogy would be this: Imagine you have a wife, a woman who you love more than anything else in the world, that you would sacrifice anything for, and she loves you just as deeply. Now imagine that a national newspaper prints comics depicting your wife totally naked, whoring it up and banging a number of other guys. You know that thousands of people across the country, and even internationally, are looking at these comics. How many of you would have the restraint to contact the head of the newspaper asking for a meeting to discuss your concerns, rather than driving over there and beating the living crap out of the guy who drew the comics? If it's a random person, you probably wouldn't care (you'd probably even encourage such comics) but once it involves someone close to you, it's not funny anymore.

[Splash!]

Originally posted by: KitKat
ChiaCheese, I don't know if your analogy really represents the situation very well. I think it's a lot more personal than just happening to see something you classify as offensive. Maybe a better analogy would be this: Imagine you have a wife, a woman who you love more than anything else in the world, that you would sacrifice anything for, and she loves you just as deeply. Now imagine that a national newspaper prints comics depicting your wife totally naked, whoring it up and banging a number of other guys. You know that thousands of people across the country, and even internationally, are looking at these comics. How many of you would have the restraint to contact the head of the newspaper asking for a meeting to discuss your concerns, rather than driving over there and beating the living crap out of the guy who drew the comics? If it's a random person, you probably wouldn't care (you'd probably even encourage such comics) but once it involves someone close to you, it's not funny anymore.

Ahh, you summed it up very well!