TV: LOST

[Raven]

So they said Faraday is gone - I can't remember, do we know how/why yet?

[Assertn]

the only dharma scene i recall that involved Faraday was the scene a while back where he was working at the orchid during its construction

[poopdeville]

Epic. Sayid shot Kid Ben.

[Raven]

Now we see how the time travel rules work for this show. Does changing the past affect the future?

[Munsu]

Maybe kid Ben is protected by Jacob like Loc was when he was shot by Ben.

[poopdeville]

Now we see how the time travel rules work for this show. Does changing the past affect the future?

According to Faraday, you can't change the past. Or the future.

Ben has been screwed with Sayid in the 2000s because Sayid shot Kid Ben in the 70s. Sayid shot Kid Ben in the 70s because he thought he could stop Ben from screwing with him in the 2000s.

In the first half of the episode, Ben said, "I thought you were a killer. Maybe I had the wrong idea about you" to Sayid. In the 70s, Sayid said to Kid Ben, "You were right about me. I am a killer." (Paraphrasing, but you get the idea)

We can see the beginnings of this idea when the Oceanic Six left -- Locke told them that the island "was not done with them". They still had to go back in time so that the events that lead up to them existing in the present would occur. So they had to go back to the island. It was their destiny.

This show is all back story, for itself.

[Munsu]

According to Faraday, you can't change the past. Or the future.

Ben has been screwed with Sayid in the 2000s because Sayid shot Kid Ben in the 70s. Sayid shot Kid Ben in the 70s because he thought he could stop Ben from screwing with him in the 2000s.

In the first half of the episode, Ben said, "I thought you were a killer. Maybe I had the wrong idea about you" to Sayid. In the 70s, Sayid said to Kid Ben, "You were right about me. I am a killer." (Paraphrasing, but you get the idea)

We can see the beginnings of this idea when the Oceanic Six left -- Locke told them that the island "was not done with them". They still had to go back in time so that the events that lead up to them existing in the present would occur. So they had to go back to the island. It was their destiny.

This show is all back story, for itself.

Interesting then, that we have a picture of Sawyer, Jack, Kate, etc. from the past in the future. Interesting then that Richard remembers talking to Loc in the past, and that he remembers how Faraday told them to bury the bomb.

Faraday can be wrong you know. But we'll see... but you might be right that this happened in the past already, that there's some sort of loop. But when Faraday talked with Desmond in the past, it instantly communicated with Desmond of the future, so I don't think there are no consequences to their actions in the past in as it regards altering the timeline.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

According to Faraday, you can't change the past. Or the future.

Ben has been screwed with Sayid in the 2000s because Sayid shot Kid Ben in the 70s. Sayid shot Kid Ben in the 70s because he thought he could stop Ben from screwing with him in the 2000s.

In the first half of the episode, Ben said, "I thought you were a killer. Maybe I had the wrong idea about you" to Sayid. In the 70s, Sayid said to Kid Ben, "You were right about me. I am a killer." (Paraphrasing, but you get the idea)

We can see the beginnings of this idea when the Oceanic Six left -- Locke told them that the island "was not done with them". They still had to go back in time so that the events that lead up to them existing in the present would occur. So they had to go back to the island. It was their destiny.

This show is all back story, for itself.

Then how are they in that picture from 1977?

Edit: If it doesnt change anything, then why did Desmond get a memory of Dan banging on the hatch door...?

(And haha, that sounds dirty.)

[Assertn]

They were in the picture from 1977 because they were always there in 1977.

[rockmanj]

And its been stated that Desmond is "different by Faraday, and therefore the time rules don't apply the same to him.

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

They were in the picture from 1977 because they were always there in 1977.

That doesnt make any sense. Please elaborate.

[Sapphire]

It's basically a circular thing. In Lost, time is a 'record' rather than something that flows continuously. Everything that they are doing now, in the 'past' causes the future events to happen or make sense. In the past, The characters can do all they want, but whatever they do has to fit in the constraints of the past. For example, they can't blow the island up, because if the island wasn't there, how did they get there in the future? They can, however, interact with the Dharma initiative, because who knows? Maybe what they do then will effect their initial landing on on the island.. (like them saving the baby, or richard eerily knowing what do to with Locke, the picture that Sun sees are all directly affected by what they did in the past)

Desmond is an exception because the show made him one. He's a victim of consequence and fate IMO

[iMUSTbeTHEdevil]

So like a butterfly effect type plot?

[Sapphire]

I think the butterfly effect implies that the future would be vastly different, were the past to be changed.

In this show, the future is only as it is because they went into the past to cause those prior events.

[Munsu]

So like a butterfly effect type plot?

Predestination Paradox:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_paradox

[poopdeville]

I think Jacob is Sawyer. And Locke is the monster, like Mr. Ekko's dead brother was.

[rockmanj]

There have been theories out there that Jacob might actually be Jack, for too many reasons that I wont get into now (for one, Jack and Jacob are different forms of the same name). The guy I am more interested in is Alpert; he's a walking enigma, that one. BTW, interesting site here: http://www.ew.com/ew/package/0,,1550612,00.html . There are usually some thought provoking posts the day of the show, and the following day.

[Assertn]

Interesting stuff, although I'd question their prediction that Locke may have changed a bit after his resurrection, but that Ben is still in control of Locke .

First of all, Locke's smug assertiveness doesn't seem uncharacteristically different to me. He's the type of guy that likes to lead and make decisions, and he has no qualms with getting the island involved in personal affairs. This is no different than when he stubbornly blew up the hatch door and subsequently recruited a team to push the button every 108 minutes.

Second of all, I think Locke's resurrection marks a turning point between his relationship with Ben. He's at a point now where Ben is at a loss for answers, and this is where he will also lose his influence. Also, while it may have seemed to be an attempt at just messing with the audience, I think there was a little symbolism involved in Locke coming out of the bushes just after Ben said "what's about to come out is something I cannot control."

Also....
Keep in mind, Ben tried to kill Locke twice already. First he shot him and left him for dead in the Dharma grave, then the fake suicide. Both times the island was watching over him. My prediction is that Ben will grow frustrated at his powerlessness and will attempt to a third time, and that will be when the island will kill Ben.

[Penner]

Weeewt, the final season has started, what'd ya'll think about the first double-ep? ^_^

[Assassin]

So Locke is the smoke monster, and he wants to go home? makes me wonder what home is in this case.

Now we also have alternate dimensions/time lines to worry about, but atleast the future/past story line has ended.