Abortion

[masamuneehs]

Ok Gotwoot.
I figure this is one of the more controversial topics out there. And, as I love controversy, I've created this thread as a place for people to discuss this issue.

I've also added two polls, just to measure people's reactions. I know the polls are a little harsh and don't embrace all of the viable options in the debate, but by making them extreme I hope to get some good discussion going.

Let's just try to keep this thing civil. It's obvious that not everyone is going to agree. Lots of points and theories that are valid to one person won't mean anything to another. I honeslty think this is a subject that does not have a right answer. So don't get your panties in a twist if people don't accept your opinion.

I guess I'll start off with my opinion:

I'm Anti-Life (thats what the Pro-Life people could call it). That is, I believe that a mother/couple has the right to end the life their unborn child. Part of the reason is because children (and unborns) are property, yes it irks me to say it, but they are the property of the parent. Under property rights the parents are entitled to do as they wish with their unborn 'property'.

However, unborn children are also humans. Children have the right to all human rights, and the same should usually be granted to unborns. One basic right is the right to life. At the same time, parents are given a great swathe of freedom to choose "what is best" for their own children. Laws have been passed numerous times that assert that parents/guardians must provide basic standards of living for children.

So it would seem that property rights and human rights are at odds. Laws requiring parents to provide certain standards for children are at odds with laws giving parents the authority to raise their child.

Honestly I can only say that I'm Pro-Choice because I KNOW it is not my right to say whether or not some mother, some couple, MAY BE FORCED BY LAW to keep a child. I honestly don't think I have a legal right to force such an incredible requirement on others. I may make moral and ethical arguments for/against those people, but are those enough to give me the right to try to create law based on my morals?

[KoKo37]

Well, I would say "Pro-Choice", I believe in most cases abortion is probally for the best, like you stated it's sadly the parents property, and if the child's not going to have a good home and not a good life, then aborition would probally be the best option. But it is sad to know that babys are being put to death without violating any sins or have done anything wrong. But what makes me mad about most of the cases, is that why the hell do these people not use birth controll or condom's if they cant have a child?

[Ero-Fan]

Pro-Choice, mostly because a woman has a right to chose what happens to her body, but I still think the father of the child should have a say in this as well, since it would be his child. I think one state has a law that requires the father to be notified before an abortion is allowed. The only cases the father shouldn't be included are if he is dead or the baby was conceived through rape. Otherwise, I'm all for abortion. (Surprise, surprise coming from the pro-death penalty guy, eh? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] )
Edit: Hey, Pro-Life people! Where ya at? You voted but didn't post yet....
Edit2: Just for clarification, I put Pro-Choice and when the child is born for my answers. Hazzah!

[Honoko]

Originally posted by: Ero-Fan
Hey, Pro-Life people! Where ya at? You voted but didn't post yet....

life is precious. what can i say?

and if i think about it, i don't know a single pro-life individual out there who isn't the slightest bit religious. makes me curious to know if there are any pro-lifers out there who don't believe in God. i kno many who do believe in God but are still pro-choice, for many of the reasons stated above. but the former, i don't think they exist. someone prove me wrong! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

(love to stay and chat but i got classes until 9 tonite =P happy talking!)

[Kraco]

Pro-choice. Though it's already technically a human after the moment of succesful fertilization, I think it's the mother's choice. The embryo/fetus/baby isn't viable on its own for a long time. It's like an obligatory parasite for most of the pregnancy time. It's up to the mother whether to keep supporting a parasite. And as far as I'm concerned, this also means the father has no vote in the issue.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Originally posted by: Kraco
The embryo/fetus/baby isn't viable on its own for a long time. It's like an obligatory parasite for most of the pregnancy time..

And usually for the following 18+years afterward.

[Turkish-S]

Pro-Life, except when mothers' life is in danger

at the moment of fertilization.

[Terracosmo]

Pro-choice, always. What's the point of having an unwanted child? None! Fucking silly "morals".

As for when life begins, does it really matter? Do you remember when you were in the womb? Didn't think so.
I picked "when born", regardless.

[Ero-Fan]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Pro-choice, always. What's the point of having an unwanted child? None! Fucking silly "morals".

As for when life begins, does it really matter? Do you remember when you were in the womb? Didn't think so.

Hell, I can't even remember 2 months ago, let alone when I was a little kid.

[Terracosmo]

Exactly. I've always found the "abortion is murder!" argument to be null. It's not like the unborn baby even gets affected by it...

People go on and on, endlessly, with the "it's murder, it's not fair, blah blah" stuff, but as I posted above... what's the point of having a baby if it's not even wanted?
If someone wants to have an abortion, it's either because;

a) it was a mistake, therefore the baby wasn't meant to exist to begin with
b) parents can't keep it for other reasons, such as economical ones

If abortion was to be forbidden, the result would be a myriad of kids who nobody wants. I can't even begin to see the logic behind that.
Then again, anti-abortion is often combined with religion (or so it seems), and being non-religious in all aspects I just can't find any reason to be against abortion at all.

Bottomline,
People have too much free time to think about things like this, and shouldn't fucking care if someone wants to get rid of a baby. It's their decision, not anyone else's.

[Ero-Fan]

I just thought of something we can do with unwanted children. A Modest Proposal just came to mind... ahh, that man was a visionary. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[Xollence]

I'm for prolife, unless the baby's going to die anyway and it's dangering the mother. I don't think the burden or rape excuse should allow abortion. If you really don't want the child give it up for adoption.

[Ero-Fan]

Originally posted by: Xollence
I'm for prolife, unless the baby's going to die anyway and it's dangering the mother. I don't think the burden or rape excuse should allow abortion. If you really don't want the child give it up for adoption.

So, a woman who was raped has to have 9 more months of being constantly reminded of that rape? How nice...

[Xollence]

I doubt she would ever forget the rape or not be constantly reminded of it. It's unfortunate for her but that's life, shit happens. I'm pretty sure having the baby aborted would cause her even more emotional pain in the long run.

[FrogKing]

----------> 10 ft. pole!

[Ero-Fan]

Originally posted by: FrogKing
----------> 10 ft. pole!

Aww, c'mon FrogKing. Its all fun. Just tell us which you are for and why.
Edit @ Below: Wahoo, another one on our side!

[Assertn]

Don't need more children in the world.

[RedX1z]

it's not fair for anyone, not the mom and definately not the kid..

[el_boss]

Generally I'm not against abortion, but the reasons some people do abortions for sometimes honestly make me just feel bad. Like when someone does an abortion just because they didn't feel like using a condom or some lame shit like that. People that aren't smart enough to use contraceptives when they don't want a child should be sterilized, for the good of mankind.

[FrogKing]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Don't need more children in the world.

Haha, nice! Anyhow, with Deez Nuts I don't really have a say in the matter (IMO). Needless to say, I agree with Assertn that there are too may children/peeps in the world. Looking around I see alot of people with kids that treat them like crap and they grow up to be leaches on society, so in the end it is some poor, young couple that struggles with a difficult decision when I wish some 'other' people should have made the decision to abort.
Bah! <dragged into the fray> I guess I would say Pro-choice because I feel that it is a women's body and she can govern her body any way she feels. I just wish more people would use birth control (which doesn't always work btw) and stop having sooooo many damn kids.

---------> 10ft. pole back out!