The Bitching Thread

[Sapphire]

ie, peoples' income taxes are funding other peoples' abilities to ride for free. Same as with universal healthcare.

Same as any government institution whatsoever...

[darkshadow]

ie, stop your annoying bitching and pay the gas for your car.

[Animeniax]

ie, stop your annoying bitching and pay the gas for your car.

I think she's complaining about paying for a subway pass, not gas for a car...

[darkshadow]

I'm talking about you obviously, stop acting like a dumbass.

[Animeniax]

Same as any government institution whatsoever...

I think some "government institutions" are worthwhile and in the common interest, like roads and bridges and such. But I don't like the idea of paying for other peoples' bus rides or healthcare. Though the more people take the bus, the fewer are jamming up traffic. So maybe I'm on the fence about public funding of mass transit.

But I'm firmly against public healthcare. The sick people who can't afford healthcare can all just go live on an island.

[Dark_Sage]

I think some "government institutions" are worthwhile and in the common interest, like roads and bridges and such. But I don't like the idea of paying for other peoples' bus rides or healthcare. Though the more people take the bus, the fewer are jamming up traffic. So maybe I'm on the fence about public funding of mass transit.

But I'm firmly against public healthcare. The sick people who can't afford healthcare can all just go live on an island.

How much do you think you're going to lose in wages to be able to provide the poor of this country with basic access to medical care?

[Animeniax]

How much do you think you're going to lose in wages to be able to provide the poor of this country with basic access to medical care?

No idea... how much do Canadians pay in taxes? I think I heard Swedes pay 50% of their income to taxes to support their hedonistic welfare system.

[enkoujin]

It's gradual taxation over here.

The higher the income one has, the higher % you would expect to pay. Expect to pay 15-30% of taxable income from ~$40,000-130,000+. That's just federal income taxes. Then you have provincial income taxes, varying from province to territory, but it's about another ~8-16% (gradual) of the same range.

Aside from all the other taxes, you've got provincial sales tax which is a tax placed on almost anything you buy (average of about 8% of purchase) and the national sales tax (5%) of the entire purchase.

So yes, it becomes an astronomical value in the end. I'm a fiscal conservative, but I wouldn't mind helping to pay for national basic services like medical care to take care of my countrymen - even if they are assholes. It's a nice safety net for everyone should they be in a situation where going to the hospital is their only option.

While the health care system we have right now is on the verge of collapsing, especially with the aging baby boomers, there are few who would suport privatization of hospitals. You can bet that the politicians will be shifting from treating diseases to preventative medicine through bombardments of taxes on junk food, higher food regulation, physical activity tax cuts and emphasis on physical fitness through government ads.

For more information regarding Canadian taxes, visit:

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

[Animeniax]

Thanks for all of the info... it confirms that I will never live in Canada. All my life I've lived in states that don't even have a state income tax. So I only pay the yearly 22-28% federal income tax and sales taxes (5-8.25% in the various states I've lived in).

I do not believe in paying for others. When I got my utility bill this month, there was a section for "helping others with their high utility bills" and it made me mad. I leave the thermostat at 81 F most of the day, which keeps my electricity bill low. I'm not paying for some a-hole to be able to leave his thermostat at a cool 78 F.

If I can wake up at 5:45AM every morning to make it on time to a 7:45AM job, then anyone can.

[enkoujin]

Wow, that electric bill sounds like a bunch of bullshit.

If you have to involuntarily help pay for someone else's utility bills that they themselves can use and control, then that's a bunch of bullshit.

However, if it was regarding life or death, it's an entirely different issue to Canadians.

[Sapphire]

The hell? Only day two of my boycott, and it's already raining cats and dogs. I even woke up early to do this. I am contemplating walking 72 blocks in the rain-

OMG ITS THUNDERING SO HARD OMG IM SCARED OMG IM GUNNA GET ELECTROCUTED

However, if it was regarding life or death, it's an entirely different issue to Canadians.

You could blanket that term to electricity, or basically government program though, right? I think the main issue is that people think that no one will help the poor and sick, unless the government forces everyone to. (nevermind that the government is the main reason for rising health care costs anyway.)

[Xelbair]

Poland is bad example of free healthcare -we have to pay 46(!)% of our income to magical institution called ZUS, that puts all that money into some kind of black hole, because it is still lacking money. and they use floppy disks for data storage.. this institution theoretically provides welfare and healthcare, but they give back approx 5% of what they get. and no, you can't resign from paying and forfeit your future 'benefits'... and that 'benefits' won't exist for next generation according to them - because they claim that they have not enough money.
Next is VAT tax, 8% for really cheap stuff, and 23% for rest, income taxes, bills for gas,water and electricity... and you are left with 12% of your earnings(according to calculations done my and my father - approximate value).

Social welfare and free healthcare in my opinion is something that must exist in well developed countries. You know - we stopped being savages when we started caring about elderly and sick/ill people. But this thing mustn't take most of people's earnings.

[Buffalobiian]

We pay our normal progressive tax, then have a medicare levy of 2% on top of that. But the majority of the healthcare funding comes from the standard tax itself, not the levy.

[Sapphire]

Poland is bad example of free healthcare -we have to pay 46(!)% of our income to magical institution called ZUS, that puts all that money into some kind of black hole

You know - we stopped being savages when we started caring about elderly and sick/ill people. But this thing mustn't take most of people's earnings.

Um, I agree with the first part of your second statement, I think. However, having someone take your money (without your knowledge/consent) to give to the elderly doesn't make you any less of a savage. Also, this seems to imply that no one took care of the sick/elderly before the government made it compulsory to. Kind of like when people say "no one would be educated, if not for government schools" when in fact literacy rates in America continuously get lower (despite the fact that the amount of money the government has thrown towards education has more than tripled per capita in the last 50 years).

The government would be a lot better at handling money if people were held accountable for their horrendous mistakes (they aren't). But as a people we tend to let them take our money for "black holes" as you call them, for whatever reason.

[Animeniax]

I don't feel bad for the elderly who can't afford electricity. That most likely means they lived a carefree life, always living in the now, rarely planning for the future. My parents are both retired and living comfortably because they made sacrifices throughout their (and their children's) lives to make sure they'd have enough for their retirement.

Also, if you're old and your kids aren't taking care of you or at least helping with the bills, that means you were probably a terrible parent and your kids hate you. Also your fault. So suck it up and enjoy the sweltering heat or numbing cold and don't expect others to "be decent" and help your ass out.

[Sapphire]

I don't feel bad for the elderly who can't afford electricity. That most likely means they lived a carefree life, always living in the now, rarely planning for the future. My parents are both retired and living comfortably because they made sacrifices throughout their (and their children's) lives to make sure they'd have enough for their retirement.

Also, if you're old and your kids aren't taking care of you or at least helping with the bills, that means you were probably a terrible parent and your kids hate you. Also your fault. So suck it up and enjoy the sweltering heat or numbing cold and don't expect others to "be decent" and help your ass out.

Stop making economic conservatives look bad.

[Edort4]

I always thought that it has to do with how things are handled and the responsabilty of the ones that handle them. Control, monitorizing and resposabilty depurations are a must when handling public fundings. The more people who must account for them the less likely to find those black holes. Public workers are just average citizens so if public service is bad, corrupt and/or incompetent is mostly a reflection of the culture of the country, way of life and education.

I find amuzing and depressing that it looks like that we are willingly giving control over our lifes, rights, freedoms, education etc but when it comes to our money things change. This is what I found a complete hipocrisy about not supporting taxes. Dont giving a fuck what they do with everything except our income.

If I have learned something from my working life is that people dont do things willingly if they are even the slights bother so having a supra conciousness (or moral form) is needed to force individuals to do what somehow majority feels as right. As every other thing mankind makes it has its pros and cons. Here they made what I think is a good move by forcing parents to school they children until the age of 16 and if they are found out to pay a nice fine. Its sad but the other thing I have learned is that here people only moves his ass when it hurts their pockets.

Edit: thanks for that info about stef. Seems interesting, the few I watched didnt discover anything new but liked the unpretentious tone of them. The only contra is that there is too much material, anything in particular to watch?

[Dark_Sage]

I don't feel bad for the elderly who can't afford electricity. That most likely means they lived a carefree life, always living in the now, rarely planning for the future. My parents are both retired and living comfortably because they made sacrifices throughout their (and their children's) lives to make sure they'd have enough for their retirement.

Also, if you're old and your kids aren't taking care of you or at least helping with the bills, that means you were probably a terrible parent and your kids hate you. Also your fault. So suck it up and enjoy the sweltering heat or numbing cold and don't expect others to "be decent" and help your ass out.

You have interesting views. May I assume you consider yourself Libertarian?

[Xelbair]

Sapphi, healthcare is free over here in name only. there are month-long queues for doctors, unless you are willing to go for a private visit(paid by you, not govement), and in most cases, unless you go for paid visit, you'll get shitty diagnosis(my friend walked with a broken wrist for a year thanks to this), elderly people receive about 300 USD per month(even less, sometimes as low as 100 usd).
Plus you know how it is with families when someone is really old - one part of family(usually small part, very small) is trying to stop majority of family from taking every last bit of money and possessions from elders...

[KitKat]

My internet is broken. Still. I phoned tech support on Wednesday last week when it went down, and they confirmed that there was something wrong with the cable line. They said Saturday morning was the first available time they could send a technician to come fix it. Then Saturday turned into Tuesday, and then Tuesday turned into Thursday. So my internet browsing time is limited to what I can sneak in at work or on my lunch break.

But, on the up-side, I find that I'm a million times more productive at home now. I weeded half my garden, made a kick-ass stir-fry, hosted an epic BBQ, cleaned my whole house, wrote a paper, and rediscovered my love of playing Scattergories.

...but I still miss my internets *sniff*