The Bitching Thread

[Animeniax]

No, that's why you're a moron. It in no way disqualifies you for putting it down. Where I work, DoD Clearance is required, not optional. The applicant doesn't always get interviewed if everything looks good. They ask around instead. They'll interview the people you put down as references, your immediate family, and bounce what you wrote down off their databases. They'll find out you lied, and that's when they disqualify you. You don't get a chance to explain yourself, because that was what the disclosure portions on the forms are for.

A lot of the people I work with openly admitted to previous drug use on the form. They got asked about it. The conversation goes like this:

"So...you used recreational drugs?"
"In HS/college, yeah, but I don't anymore."
"Well, as long as you pass the drug test, okay."
[Moved on to next topic]

You get the chance to explain yourself because you disclosed it. Again, they're not looking for a perfect record, they're looking for honesty. Instead, what you did makes it look like you were trying to hide it. They didn't see it during the disclosure process. Then you told them. Now they know you're deceitful and a liar.

Quit trying to dodge responsibility by blaming it on "The System." You can't blame anyone but yourself.

Man you are so full of shit. Getting a security clearance to work some cushy paper-pushing government job doesn't have the same requirements as that required to be a police officer. I get the irony of that statement based on my choice to omit a fact, but it should still serve to show you're full of shit. Prior drug use as a desk-jockey gov't monkey doesn't come into play like it might as a police officer, where drugs are ever present and a daily temptation. I'll admit I fucked up by not disclosing it, but you still don't know what you're talking about. Admitting drug use on the initial interest form prior to the application process all but disqualifies you from consideration considering how competitive the PD in this city is and how many applicants they get. I'm sure your slide-rule cookie-cutter notion of the selection process might fit the rough and tumble world of gov't schlubs who want to get paid for doing as little work as possible, but it doesn't fit every (most) scenarios.

The system is as fucked up as anything else, and denying that is what keeps you at your job and a part of the bureaucracy that keeps everything running like shit. Keep pushing papers, it's your calling in life.

Thinking you have a divine calling to be a cop, combined from what we know about your views thanks to your posts here, quite frankly, I'm glad.

You're exactly the type of person who should never be allowed to become one.

Divine calling isn't a choice, it's a realization. And you're the kind of person who holds police to some inhuman saintly standard of perfection, then slams them when they mess up. I'm almost happy I won't be a cop so I don't have to save people like you from yourself, them get sued for doing my job so you can feel more like a man.

[Archangel]

I'd make an awesome cop, i'm a people person.

[Ryllharu]

Getting a security clearance to work some cushy paper-pushing government job doesn't have the same requirements as that required to be a police officer.

Oh? I assure you, security clearance is exceedingly stringent. They look at everything that might give them a reason to assume you'd ever get desperate enough to sell secrets to foreign countries. At certain levels, they don't just consider interviewing a few of the people listed as a reference, they actually call all of them.

And it's not just paper pushing. Trades workers also operate all over the place in government jobs. As do cleaners who work in those buildings, guards, food services staff, maintenance workers, transportation services, and even the person from the USPS who drops off and picks up the mail. But nice assumption.

edit: And by the way, we get thorough medical exams the day we start too. Whether you're a trade worker or a paper pusher.

[Animeniax]

Oh? I assure you, security clearance is exceedingly stringent. They look at everything that might give them a reason to assume you'd ever get desperate enough to sell secrets to foreign countries. At certain levels, they don't just consider interviewing a few of the people listed as a reference, they actually call all of them.

And it's not just paper pushing. Trades workers also operate all over the place in government jobs. As do cleaners who work in those buildings, guards, food services staff, maintenance workers, transportation services, and even the person from the USPS who drops off and picks up the mail. But nice assumption.

And by the way, we get thorough medical exams the day we start too. Whether you're a trade worker or a paper pusher.

Oh my bad, so besides getting clearances for paper-pushers, you also get them for manual laborers and other unskilled workers who have a pulse and no immediate debilitating health issues. Bravo. I'm sure the standards are just as high as with a job where you have control over the freedom and lives of people, carry a deadly weapon, and have the full power and authority of the state. Again, I realize the irony of asserting all of these powers of police and how betraying that trust by omitting a fact on your background statements is easily sufficient reason to disqualify you from the selection process. But I hate it when people try to apply their workaday middling scenarios to apply to all cases. Just keep it in your piehole because it doesn't help.

You can't say there is a negligible effect of having admitted to drug use on the initial interest forms for a police job because that's how it applies to security clearances for gov't desk and labor jobs. Because then you'd be talking out of your ass.

I'd make an awesome cop, i'm a people person.

That's not what policing is about. It's basically baby-sitting and getting shit on and still smiling so they can't file a complaint against you. I'm ok with that because I've been in IT support for a few years and it's basically the same thing. Funny thing is, there are a shitload of pot smokers where I work in IT right now in the public sector. Gov't workers no less.

[Ryllharu]

You can't say there is a negligible effect of having admitted to drug use on the initial interest forms for a police job because that's how it applies to security clearances for gov't desk and labor jobs. Because then you'd be talking out of your ass.

No different from an applicant "forgetting" that vacation they took to China, smart guy.

Oh, and the civilian guards at a lot of the government contractor facilities have better weapons than the city cops, but don't let facts get in the way. And they do draw their sidearms...just because someone has their badge tucked under a coat.

[Y]

You're such a stupid bastard that you're still defending the thought process that cost you a job. I wouldn't expect anything less from the kind of drooling moron who idolizes the police force.

[Animeniax]

Hahahahahahahahahaha

Sweet, another guy who is as pathetic as you. Now you can feel better about yourself. But you're mistaken, since no one is quite that pathetic.

You're such a stupid bastard that you're still defending the thought process that cost you a job. I wouldn't expect anything less from the kind of drooling moron who idolizes the police force.

No, not defending it, if you bothered to read any of it I take full responsibility for what I did. I'm just saying that ryllharu's explanation of why I was wrong has nothing to do with it so he should shut the hell up.

No different from an applicant "forgetting" that vacation they took to China, smart guy.

Oh, and the civilian guards at a lot of the government contractor facilities have better weapons than the city cops, but don't let facts get in the way. And they do draw their sidearms...just because someone has their badge tucked under a coat.

A vacation to China makes you a threat to national security =/= prior drug use for someone who will be around drugs and criminals for a living. Yes lying by omission for either is bad, but the correlation still does not exist to the level you're trying to big-up your little desk job.

[Buffalobiian]

Try the next dp regardless. At least then you know you did, rather than wondering later on in life whether you would have gotten a chance elsewhere.

[Abdula]

That is too bad Ani. Hope something else works out for you. Its nice of Ryl and DS and Y to let you vent your confused frustration on them though

[Animeniax]

Try the next dp regardless. At least then you know you did, rather than wondering later on in life whether you would have gotten a chance elsewhere.

I probably will once I've thought it through, but really this is probably a blessing in disguise. Austin and its surrounding areas really are a shitty place to be a cop. It's got this conservative values country/hillbilly background because its central Texas, but it's got a liberal feel because of the uni and all the hippies. Add in the proximity to Mexico and you have a 36% brown population. Add all that together and what locals like to dub as a charming "weirdness" (they have t-shirts advocating "keep Austin weird") makes it a town in flux trying to find an identity. What that means to cops is that they are expected to be superheroes because of the conservative crime control base but you're on a tight leash because of the liberals and their anti-police mentality. So in the end you try to do your job but get scrutinized and sued and can lose your job easily just to appease the public. I even considered starting out with a smaller PD so I wouldn't have to put up with the bullshit, but the tide of the process swept me to apply at the major PD. Thanks for the advice, I'll let you know how it goes.

That is too bad Ani. Hope something else works out for you. Its nice of Ryl and DS and Y to let you vent your confused frustration on them though

It's not a confused frustration. I know what I did wrong and why and why the outcome is what it is (I hate that saying btw, fucking cop-out excuse). I'm mad that guys like ryllharu try to apply their situations to my situation like they know what the deal is. Y is a pothead and I hope that shit doesn't catch up to him but I know it will. DS is just being DS.

In the end I actually appreciate their feedback, though it's hard to tell since I'm on full defensive psychological preservation mode. It's been therapeutic venting and I hope you guys aren't too put off and will continue to interact. Though now that I've exposed a weakness I'm sure you'll all pounce and try to tear me down some more. Give it your best.

[Kraco]

Do you reckon your chances might be better if you tried again in some less conservative state and a city/town with less fierce competition? The USA is a helluva big country, after all, so you should have lots of options. Unless they systematically drop applicants who were dropped elsewhere for any reason. I imagine if you got in anywhere and had a spotless record of a number of years, it would be far easier then to move back to a place where you'd rather spend the rest of your career in.

[Ryllharu]

It's not a confused frustration. I know what I did wrong and why and why the outcome is what it is (I hate that saying btw, fucking cop-out excuse). I'm mad that guys like ryllharu try to apply their situations to my situation like they know what the deal is.

You just don't get it, and that's the saddest part. You're almost there though.

(A) Intentionally not disclosing prior drug use (because you were afraid it would disqualify you for a job where drug enforcement in involved).

(B) Intentionally not disclosing a trip to China (or Iran, or Pakistan, or Syria, or Russia, etc.) for a job that requires US security clearance.

(A) and (B) are exactly the same. Like I said several posts back, It's not what you left off, it's not whether it is drug use, a drug misdemeanor, a trip to visit family in China, a business trip, the 2008 Olympics, or a trip to Canada, or that for four months you lived with a now ex-girlfriend.

Get this through your head: It isn't the prior act. It is that you lied about it, and they caught you (because you told them). Honestly, how were they even going to find out about recreational drug use? At least with a trip to China while trying to get a job that requires US clearance, they can actually look up customs records, or off your passport.

A person who manges to do that, whatever the omission is, doesn't just suddenly appear like they might not be trusted, they just proved that they can't be trusted. I don't know how you can't see the obvious parallel.

[Animeniax]

Do you reckon your chances might be better if you tried again in some less conservative state and a city/town with less fierce competition? The USA is a helluva big country, after all, so you should have lots of options. Unless they systematically drop applicants who were dropped elsewhere for any reason. I imagine if you got in anywhere and had a spotless record of a number of years, it would be far easier then to move back to a place where you'd rather spend the rest of your career in.

Yeah at this point I'm thinking that might be the real point of this entire mess... some karmic alignment that will force me to move to a city/town more suited to me. I don't really like Austin, but I do have a house here. But the weather, people, traffic, and mindset of the locals really don't jive with me. I'm just not sure where else I could/would want to live and work.

You just don't get it, and that's the saddest part. You're almost there though.

(A) Intentionally not disclosing prior drug use (because you were afraid it would disqualify you for a job where drug enforcement in involved).

(B) Intentionally not disclosing a trip to China (or Iran, or Pakistan, or Syria, or Russia, etc.) for a job that requires US security clearance.

(A) and (B) are exactly the same. Like I said several posts back, It's not what you left off, it's not whether it is drug use, a drug misdemeanor, a trip to visit family in China, a business trip, the 2008 Olympics, or a trip to Canada, or that for four months you lived with a now ex-girlfriend.

Get this through your head: It isn't the prior act. It is that you lied about it, and they caught you (because you told them). Honestly, how were they even going to find out about recreational drug use? At least with a trip to China while trying to get a job that requires US clearance, they can actually look up customs records, or off your passport.

A person who manges to do that, whatever the omission is, doesn't just suddenly appear like they might not be trusted, they just proved that they can't be trusted. I don't know how you can't see the obvious parallel.

Nope, you're still mostly wrong. When the reviewer cop told me I'd been disqualified, he specifically mentioned how prior drug use in my 30s was significantly more damning than if it had been in my teens or early twenties, aside from the fact that I did not admit to it on the applications. Partly because it adds to the deception since it makes my omission more willful since the use only occurred a couple years ago so I couldn't say I forgot about it. But also because he couldn't trust that it was purely experimentation or that it was done for the purpose I stated, which was to "get my feet wet" before jumping into the pool that is police work. He made that point clear, that experimentation with drugs occurs when you're in your teens, not as a 30-something.

They would have found out about the drug use because of the polygraph test that they administer. Do you administer a poly for security clearances?

[Ryllharu]

Do you administer a [polygraph tests] for security clearances?

Yes. They're always done for Top Secret clearance, and occasionally for Secret, depending on what you'd need to look at. Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) in particular. It is quite well detailed on the wikipedia articles about the topic.

If you knew you were going to get polygraphed, all the more reason to disclose it up front.

But also because he couldn't trust that it was purely experimentation or that it was done for the purpose I stated, which was to "get my feet wet" before jumping into the pool that is police work.

That's quite possibly the most boneheaded reason I've ever heard to try out drugs.

[Animeniax]

Yes. They're always done for Top Secret clearance, and occasionally for Secret, depending on what you'd need to look at. Sensitive Compartmented Information (SCI) in particular. It is quite well detailed on the wikipedia articles about the topic.

If you knew you were going to get polygraphed, all the more reason to disclose it up front.

That's quite possibly the most boneheaded reason I've ever heard to try out drugs.

Polygraphs aren't some magic truth telling device. You can fail/set off triggers on the poly just by being nervous or sleepy. I could have passed the poly satisfactorily without ever admitting to the drug use. I think kudos should be given that I fessed up. Thinking back, not sure why I decided to admit it instead of trying to beat the poly. It would have been a fun experience, especially if I beat it.

I think it's more pathetic to try drugs because you think life sucks and you want to dull the pain and tedium by getting high. There are so many better ways to improve your life than by drowning in your own sorrows (getting high).

[Y]

I think it's more pathetic to try drugs because you think life sucks and you want to dull the pain and tedium by getting high. There are so many better ways to improve your life than by drowning in your own sorrows (getting high).

I say that your hilariously stupid stated reason for trying drugs is, hands down, the dumbest possible rationale. It's good to know that despite endemic incompetence and corruption in many police forces around America, they are still clever enough to avoid hiring you.

[Animeniax]

I say that your hilariously stupid stated reason for trying drugs is, hands down, the dumbest possible rationale. It's good to know that despite endemic incompetence and corruption in many police forces around America, they are still clever enough to avoid hiring you.

Yeah those guys are such great successes. They'll be remembered for how well they led this country and its effect on the international community.

I have to agree with you though. As fucked up as the police are in the US, they've managed to keep out probably one of the best candidates to make positive changes and a true force for good. Guess I'll spend my energies playing video games instead. I wish I had less drive and optimism than I do and could just be happy getting high and sitting around. Then I could be like you Y.

[Abdula]

Wow! It must be an awesome world inside your head Animeniax.

[Animeniax]

Wow! It must be an awesome world inside your head Animeniax.

You're one to talk, you emo bitch. Buddy old pal!

[Abdula]

Emo? Me? Tears of blood are so 4 years ago. I'm all mellow now