Ichigo's hollow powers

[el_boss]

Since the episode discussion threads are being flooded with theories about this, I think it's time it got a thread of it's own to relieve some pressure. Please feel free to add more theories and dismiss or validate other theories.

So far the main theories are:

1. He got it from the pit when he almost died/turned in to a hollow.
2. Rukia trasfered it to him when she gave him shinigami powers.
3. He is a reincarnation of Kaien which was turned in to a hollow before he died.
4. His own shinigami were a hollow hybrid to begin with and got unlocked along with his shinigami powers in the pit.
5. He inherited it from his mother and/or father.
6. Urahara advertedly put Ichigo in the pit knowing it would make him into a hybrid hollow.
7. The hougyoku affected Ichigo's own shinigamai powers when he was around Rukia not when she transferred her powers.
8. A combination of 3 and 5. One of Ichigo's ancestors is the reincarnation of Kaien.
9. A modification of 1. The hollow Ichigo turned up to stop him from becoming a full hollow so he wouldn't lose his host.
10. An extension of 4. The hollow couldn't take over because Rukia's powers where somehow surpressing him.

My theory:
The hougyoku within Rukia didn't affect Ichigo directly in the shinigami transfer. Since they were Rukia's powers they might have gotten immune to the hougyoku or something. But maybe Ichigo's own hidden powers were more susceptible and when he spent time with Rukia they gor more and more corrupted. Much like the way Ichigo leaked powers to others he might have absorbed the hollow powers from Rukia. So in the pit when he almost died the hollow came out and saved him, like it has done numerous times since then.

Optional addon to my theory:
Rukia was also very close to Kaien and spent alot of time with him. And if Ichigo is the reincarnation of Kaien or somehow otherwise connected to him, this might have some significance as well. Maybe because the soul got exposed in both the spirit world and the real world it had some kind of extra influence.

[heero]

I'll just go with the fact that his chain got eaten away and became a hollow but at the same time, he released his sword to become a shinigami. After words, he ripped off his mask keeping his hollowself inside him which explains why he sort of have 2 identities. simple theory but it makes sense to me.

[XanBcoo]

I agree with heero. That theory seems to have the most evidence, and is what I've been arguing for in the other discussion. Hollows are created when someone's chain is eaten away, not brought to the rescue.

The Rukia theory could be true, but there's no evidence I can see to assume it is.

[el_boss]

With that logic you might as well say that there is no evidence for your theory (number 1). I think that theory 4 (which could have been caused by my theory) has as much "evidence" as 1. We have just seen that Ichigo was in the pit and came out as a hollow-like shinigami, we don't actually know what happened. I would go as far to say that none of the theories have any evidence, at most you could call them clues or hints.

[Kraco]

Let me add also here one wild theory (from my post in the ep discussion thread):
6. What Ichigo went through in the pit, under the shop, wasn't actually a standard method to awake his shinigami powers but the method to create the shinigami / hollow hybrid. Urahara did this knowingly (the bastard). The rest of the folk knew nothing about it.

[Dionysos]

3-5 are bad theories...

3. I really would hate Bleach if it would be true
4. I dont think any person has hollow power from the beginning

Im not sure with 2. could be, i thought so too for a time, but actually i think the first theory is the best.

[DarthEnderX]

I used to think it was the first one. But after seeing this weeks episode, I believe it's number 2 now.

[FrogKing]

@Kraco: I really like this idea...We have no idea how Urahara made the first hougyoku, but we do know how a hollow is made and curiously his test involves the use/discovery of shinigami powers to overcome the transformation. It isn't hard to imagine that his first successful creation involve the (I can't remember what it is called) chain being eatin' then having a strong enough soul to overcome it. Maybe the hougyoku was a 'test-tube' creation and Ichigo was the first 'in vivo' creation (i.e. he was putting the hollow/shinigami creation to a practical situation). Many scientists attempt the same type of experiments: test a model at the bench, then apply the model to a controlled in vivo situation.

I think the why did Ichigo passed/survived the transformation is the more interesting question. Is it because of Rukia? Is it because of is lineage (mom and dad)? Or is it because he is a reincarnated version of former SS vice-captain? Everybody has a reason for their favorite theory, but why can't it be a little of all of them? Aizen certainly had a very difficult time trying to make a hybrid. Maybe Ichigo is has the perfect combination of nurture and Nature to be able to make the transformation. The hougyoku in Rukia could have influenced Ichigo's powers, his mother and father could have attributed to him as well [evidence: siblings have higher-than-average reiatsu, father seems pretty strong physically although this has no bearing on shinigami powers but his kids are always saying how he is strong even for an old man, his mother has instilled an incredible will to live and to protect others), and lastly he does certainly look (and sometimes act/speak) like Kaien. Also (I know it's a big stretch), but the guard on his bankai form is a swastika which in some religious lore means reincarnation and/or return.

I guess the bottom line is that becoming a hollow/shinigami is by no means an easy feat, but perhaps Ichigo is the unique, (insert anime-hero) individual who was/is a successful hybrid. I think what Urahara did was wrong (he could have most certainly sent the hollow to Ichigo in order to catalyze the introduction of Rukia and Ichigo) by experimenting with Ichigo, but I think that it worked.

Btw, for those who think that Ichigos hollow side only comes from Rukia, I think Xan stated in another post that Byakuya severed those powers in his flash step attack in their first encounter.

My 2 cents...

[masamuneehs]

I go with the idea that he is at least some kind of reincarnation of Kaien Kukaku.

The guys just look too much alike to not have something to do with each other. That and they're both Rukias love interest, it just feels set up for it to be like that.
However I feel that Ichigo's initial powers (the ones he had on his own) are also contributed to by his mother, since his two sisters have power too.

I also thought that Urahara put the hougyoku into the Gigai (False Body) that he lent to Rukia AFTER she gave her powers to Ichigo. So that wouldn't be it either...

And, as for the almost-Hollow incident in Urahara's Training Pit, I believe that was a manifestation of Ichigo's Hollow nature (already in him from Kaien) trying to take over, but the Shinigami part won out because Ichigo is a "good/positive spirit" and not a negative/Hollowish spirit. I just think it was the first time that the Hollow nature tried to take advantage of Ichigo's weakness/shortcoming.

[ChaosK]

1. He got it from the pit when he almost died/turned in to a hollow.

theres my theory, he turned into a hollow there, and ever since that he had it, had it really been from rukia or kaien it should've appeared before.

[Carnage]

I still think hes the reincarnation of Kaien, but i think the reason behind the hollow is something along the lines of reason 5. Maybe it wasnt his mother, but his father. Maybe hes just special. Something like that[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[anphorus]

My spin on the kaien thing is as follows, copy pasted from another topic:

Originally posted by: anphorus

It seems that spiritual powers in humans is quite rare. Aside from Ichigo (and his family, which I think may have been caused by Ichigo's spirit leakage. I think it's possible this still happened when he was young, just at a much slower rate which would require long term exposure. Or his mother, even but that only further proves my point), Don Kanoji is the only other human with natural any spirit power we've seen. (And he was pretty weak, and quite famous because of it). So even if Ichigo is a reincarnation of Kaien, that doesn't mean that that has anything to do with his awesome strength; otherwise there'd be a whole bunch of reincarnated shinigami's walking around with insane spirit levels.

Same thing with the whole hollow thing.

Plus, when a shingami dies, they are reincarnated, but when a hollow is slain using a zanpaktou, they move on to soul society

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: anphorus
So even if Ichigo is a reincarnation of Kaien, that doesn't mean that that has anything to do with his awesome strength; otherwise there'd be a whole bunch of reincarnated shinigami's walking around with insane spirit levels.

Plus, when a shingami dies, they are reincarnated, but when a hollow is slain using a zanpaktou, they move on to soul society

That makes sence, but Kaien is the one of the few (if not only) shinigamis to die as a "hollow". As you put it "when a shingami dies, they are reincarnated" isn't it possible that the hollow part of kaien tagged along and got reincarnated as well. That would mean that Ichigo was a hollow hybrid to begin with and thus able to extend beyond the barriers of a normal shinigami. This also somewhat explains his insane strenght.

[heero]

Originally posted by: anphorus

Plus, when a shingami dies, they are reincarnated, but when a hollow is slain using a zanpaktou, they move on to soul society

hmm I thought when hollow dies, they disappear forever instead of going to soul society. no?

Originally posted by: el_boss
5. He inherited it from his mother.

why can't it be his father?

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: heero
hmm I thought when hollow dies, they disappear forever instead of going to soul society. no?

Originally posted by: el_boss
5. He inherited it from his mother.

why can't it be his father?

That's when they are killed by a non shinigami, for example a Quincy.

Yeah, why not his father?

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
And, as for the almost-Hollow incident in Urahara's Training Pit, I believe that was a manifestation of Ichigo's Hollow nature (already in him from Kaien) trying to take over, but the Shinigami part won out because Ichigo is a "good/positive spirit" and not a negative/Hollowish spirit. I just think it was the first time that the Hollow nature tried to take advantage of Ichigo's weakness/shortcoming.

Ichigo's Hollow and Kaien's Hollow are too dissimilar to be related at all. Different masks, powers, voices, etc. I think the two have nothing to do with eachother. The Hollow we have seen in Ichigo seems to have been created as his chain was being eaten away (this is how Hollows come in to existence). Also, Kaien's full name is "Shiba Kaien"

Originally posted by: el_boss
With that logic you might as well say that there is no evidence for your theory (number 1)

I listed plenty of evidence in the episode discussion, but I'm honestly too tired to copy and paste it all. If you still need proof though, I'll do it when I get back.

Kraco and Frogking, I'm starting to consider theory number 6. That one makes very good sense, and I wouldn't be suprised if the truth were something along those lines.

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo

Originally posted by: el_boss
With that logic you might as well say that there is no evidence for your theory (number 1)

I listed plenty of evidence in the episode discussion, but I'm honestly too tired to copy and paste it all. If you still need proof though, I'll do it when I get back.

Please do, post your "evidence" that is. This is after all where it belongs. What I mean't though was that nothing so far can really be viewed as evidence (regarding Ichigo's hollow powers), and as I said it should be accounted for as clues or hints.

On a different subject: I don't remember really, but was Ichigo ever near death before the pit? He had some rough fights, but he never was about to recieve a killing blow, right? Maybe his hollow side was there all along but never got a chanse to come out.

[Munsu]

Fighting Byakuya and Renji was not threatening enough?

[anphorus]

Budweineken is on the money. After Byakuya's attack Ichigo was mortally wounded, if Urahara hadn't shown up it wouldn't have been long before Ichigo was a goner.

Slightly Off Topic musing: What would actually happen if Ichigo were to be killed. In his ordinary body, would he become an ordinary soul waiting to be sent to soul sociect or would he just turn into his shinigami form? If he died in soul form, would he be reincarnated, even if his body was intact? I don't think theres any way to answer this though. Just something I'm curious about.

[Assassin]

Originally posted by: el_boss

Originally posted by: heero
hmm I thought when hollow dies, they disappear forever instead of going to soul society. no?

Originally posted by: el_boss
5. He inherited it from his mother.

why can't it be his father?

That's when they are killed by a non shinigami, for example a Quincy.

Yeah, why not his father?

well, the father thing has no merit since his father is the one person who has no rietsu at all. so unless its some cruel joke by mother nature, where all his fathers' possible rietsu was drained and transfered to him instead, then its really not a very likely theory.

Even with his mother, i dont think she had any rietsu herself. so theres no reason why she would have anything to do with his powers