Bleach 61

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: KoKo37
well personly he got some sort of powers from his mothers because even if he was a reincarnation of Kaien his sisters got powers as well, however i dont believe he got any hollow or deathgod powers from his mom.

This part I agree with. However...

Personly i think he got the hollow powers from Rukia and maybe that hollow that attacked ichigo and rukia in the first espisode was one of those ones that are extremely hard to sense ( i know she said ichigos powers was blocking her from sensing it, but i think it was also one of the ones Urahara made ), also i agree with Vegechan that the orb itself wasn't transferd just some of its powers. The Urahara hole theory i dont really buy because i would think that would be to easy, like if someone has very high will power and is about to become hollow does that mean he wont become one and will end up only becoming half hollow? well anyways im sticking with the Rukia theroy XD, though most of the time my theroys end up being wrong

I'm still waiting for a good "Ichigo got hollow powers from Rukia" explanation. First of all, what does the hollow in the first ep have to do with anything? And since when did Urahara make hollows?? Those two points confused me.

Second, Ichigo got his powers from the pit, because as Zangetsu himself said, Ichigo has his own shinigami powers that Byakuya didn't sense (making Ichigo special regardless of Rukia, possibly due to his being Kaien's reincarnation). Byakuya only assumed he had the power Rukia gave him, and took that away. He was then told to find his own powers among all those boxes. He did so as he was transforming into a hollow, thus his current condition. Again, there was no evidence to show that Ichigo had Hollow-shinigami hybrid powers before the pit incident.

As for Ichigo's enormous strength. I agree with anphorus. It probably doesn't only come from Kaien, because every shingami death in SS would result in people with high spirit powers. Maybe his innate strength is just "main character aura"? I'm curious now.

[KoKo37]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo

Originally posted by: KoKo37
well personly he got some sort of powers from his mothers because even if he was a reincarnation of Kaien his sisters got powers as well, however i dont believe he got any hollow or deathgod powers from his mom.

This part I agree with. However,

Personly i think he got the hollow powers from Rukia and maybe that hollow that attacked ichigo and rukia in the first espisode was one of those ones that are extremely hard to sense ( i know she said ichigos powers was blocking her from sensing it, but i think it was also one of the ones Urahara made ), also i agree with Vegechan that the orb itself wasn't transferd just some of its powers. The Urahara hole theory i dont really buy because i would think that would be to easy, like if someone has very high will power and is about to become hollow does that mean he wont become one and will end up only becoming half hollow? well anyways im sticking with the Rukia theroy XD, though most of the time my theroys end up being wrong

I'm still waiting for a good "Ichigo got hollow powers from Rukia" explanation. First of all, what does the hollow in the first ep have to do with anything? And since when did Urahara make hollows?? Those two points confused me.

whoops my bad, i thought it said that both Aizen and Urahara created those hollows, though Urarara could of created them if he wanted XD, though i take back that part but i still think he got his powers from Rukia but its just my theroy >: )

[Assassin]

well its great that you have a theory, but theres nothing to back up your theory. Provide some solid evidence, not assumptions.

[Kraco]

I don't get the idea behind the Kaien reincarnation theory at all. What makes it so special or even relevant? It's not like Kaien was any exceptional shinigami, so it wouldn't explain Ichigo's powers at all. And Ichigo has normal parents, he has his own identity and has never had any Kaien flashbacks or anything. And in anime it's not all too uncommon for characters to look alike, so that's no reason. And besides, if a soul is reborn, why would it affect the looks of a person anyway. The only thing this theory does is degrade Ichigo by making him just an extension of some dude who got owned by a slightly above average hollow (no matter if the hollow was experimental or not).

Was the Hollow-Ichigo during Byakuya fight similar to the hybrid Aizen was trying to create and Urahara did? Or was it just an ordinary Hollow? If it was something similar but not exactly like the hybrid, it would most likely mean Ichigo would end up like the failed experiments, if he for some reason couldn't stop the transformation like he did in the Byakuya fight. Unless the method Urahara was using to surface Ichigo's shinigami powers under the shop wasn't infact a proper method at all, but the very method he had used to create the hybrid in the first place, in the past. It would seem risky to duplicate that experiment, though...

[Hakeem_21]

Originally posted by: Budweineken
I wouldn't call it stupid... But seeing as his mother got killed by a crappy hollow like Gran Fisher leads me to believe that she had no Shinigami powers...

I'm gonna go with the theory that Ichigo is simply a freak of nature...

Thats why i think its stupid cause if she had shingami powers and she gets killed by a weakass hollow.

If thats the reason Ichigo has so much spirit power,i will lose the respect for bleach that i have now.

Ichigo being a freak of nature i dont like either cause there must be a real reason he could see spirits and got so much spirit power when he became shingami.

[XanBcoo]

@Kraco: I don't think Ichigo is neccessarily Kaien's reincarnation, but I really think they are in some strange way connected. That's the way it seems to me, at least.

And good point about Hollow-Ichigo. I hadn't considered that his hybrid form might just be another "failed experiment." I'm very curious to see how the Hogyouku works.

[ChaosK]

maybe ichigo's dad fucked shiba kukakku....what?

real theory, ichigo couldnt have gotten his powers from rukia because...why would urahara set off a device he deemed dangerous and thought to be unethical into a girl he meets? obviously it was never released inside rukia or she wouldnt have lost to that first hollow in the first episode, she would've made the transformation ichigo did giving her immense powers, this didnt happen proving that rukia has not and never had hollow powers inside of her.

Bud and hakeem make a good point, ichigo's mom posessed no power at all (probably) or else she would've at least put a fight up against the grand fisher, from the flashback we got, she was instantly killed...but what about his dad? his dad gave ichigo something before ichigo went to urahara's before the invasion, do u think his dad knows something? or has a connection some how? maybe his dad is a part hollow.

[el_boss]

Ichigo's mother could very well have had shinigami powers, but just like Ichigo she just might have not released them. And before Ichigo got shinigami powers he had certain "spirit abilities" but he couldn't fight for shit against the hollow anyway.

[DarthEnderX]

I think that what Chaos says is the point though even though he misses it.

The hybrid is safely sealed up inside Rukia. But then she goes and does something nobody expects her to do. Something thats a crime for her to do, so why would anyone think she'd do it. She gives her death god powers to a human. I'm surprised people are so willing to write off that this might have had inintended side effects. Maybe the thing inside her went with her powers, afterall, she didn't know it was there. Maybe all it did was leak a little. Maybe the ball is still inside Rukia, but it can still be the reason for Ichigo's powers. It doesn't have to have ever given her powers, because it was sealed up before. And afterwards, it was either gone, or resealed. It's not likely that Uruhara tested the effects of giving away your Death God powers would have on the ball.

And on the point of why Ichigo is so powerful, it's very likely that any freakish power levels is a direct result of him BEING part Hollow. Aizen himself said it, being a Death God that's part Hollow allows you to surpass Death God limitations. Thus, the reason Ichigo has grown so strong, so quickly is most likely just because he's part Hollow.

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: DarthEnder
And on the point of why Ichigo is so powerful, it's very likely that any freakish power levels is a direct result of him BEING part Hollow. Aizen himself said it, being a Death God that's part Hollow allows you to surpass Death God limitations. Thus, the reason Ichigo has grown so strong, so quickly is most likely just because he's part Hollow.

Ichigo has always been inordinately strong (that is, assuming he didn't get the hollow powers from Rukia), so I think it's something else.

[Mgslee]

More theories!

About Ichigo.
Perhaps is mother was a former shinigami who moved to earth and used Urahara's illegal Gagai. So she would be completely drained of her abilities, but that doesnt mean that natural abilites arent passed on to her children. Perhaps she had the ability to still see hollows but ignored it until little Ichigo fell in to that trap. Ichigo's mother saw what was happening and did the only thing that she could, sacrfice her self. This also might help explain why that hollow thought Ichago's mother tasted so good.

Unohana (Or whatever that Medical Captains name is...) is probably being kept alive by Aizen for a good reason. My theory is that Aizen needs someone to extract the Hogyuko from Rukia (Dead or alive doesnt really matter). He can simply make all the Captains bend to their knees and force her to do his bidding. Having her gather all the Captains plays right in to Aizen's plans.

When I think about it, Ichigo getting hollow powers from that pit seems almost to easy. I wanna seesome crazy flash back that shows that Ichigo's mother and Urahara are connected...

Just more stuff to throw in to the fire [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Mae]

I'm kinda late watching this ep, so I'd just like to comment on what some other people have said....

I think it made good sense for Aizen to have faked his death since this allowed him to secretly take over the command room and manipulate events by sending out official-seeming commands. And yes, it's nice to finally know why Rukia's so important. And why she suddenly became so weak.

I also think, from reading the posted manga and Bleach-society's subs, that Uruhara placed the ball of energy inside Rukia long ago, before he left soul society. He simply took advantage of her mistake on earth and used it to hide her in the fake body (Or possibly he created the opportunity? Hard to tell). Previously I had thought of Uruhara as one of the good guys... But he didn't even warn Rukia about what he had done to her, and he tricked her into using the altered fake body. He obviously has his own motives and isn't above using others without their knowledge or consent. I wonder if he's just using the kids at his shop? Maybe he's experimented on them as well...

It's still somewhat unclear why Aizen didn't go after Rukia sooner, or why Uruhara felt he needed to hide her since she's been fine up until now. Maybe making her human neutralizes the energy ball somehow? And what would happen to it if she is killed?

I think it's pretty obvious that Ichigo's uber powers are explained by the fact that he's a shinigami/hollow hybrid, and likely Aizen doesn't know that yet. Now, how this happened exactly is still unclear, and I think several of the ideas posted here are possible:

1. When Rukia transferred her powers to Ichigo the energy ball affected him somehow. Either it was transferred to him or it's powers changed him in some way so that he could become this hybrid.

2. Uruhara deliberately made him into a hybrid by almost killing him earlier during the trial in the pit.

3. Ichigo is actually one of Aizen's successful experiments (even though Aizen doesn't know it). Kaien's soul merged with the hollow that took him over as shown in the flashback, and the combined being was reborn as Ichigo.

4. Some combination of the above theories.

I just want to see Aizen's face when he finds out Ichigo already has the power he is seeking.

[Vegechan]

Ichigo getting his powers from the pit seems too obvious. And if we just learned anything from Bleach, it's that the least obvious is most likely.

I know there isn't much evidence to my theory, but then again, what evidence was there that Aizen was the main villian? I'm just trying to look at this outside of the box. I always thought the pit being the source of his hollow abilities was too obvious, even before the Aizen twist.

Yes, I am aware that he had powers before Rukia was involved. But so does his sisters. Which leds me to believe the source of those powers came from heritage of some sort, and seeing how his dad is completely clueless to the spirit world, it is most likely his mother. Possible that it's somewhere else down the line, like grandfather or something.

But even then, when Ichigo gains Shinigami powers, he was too powerful. Everything up until now has just been him understanding how to wield all this power. Even when Renji and Byakuya came to the Earth realm to take Rukia, he didn't fully understand how to use his power. If he was able to use his Soul Slayer's ultimate attack he most likely would have beaten them at that point.

He technically hasn't gotten stronger, instead he's just learning how to use all this power that he has. This power was given to him when Rukia transferred her powers over to him. Like I said before, yes he was able to break the binding spell, and yes he could see spirits, but that just meant he was well connected to the spirit world (possibly even being Kaien's reincarnation.)

When Ichigo actually escaped from the pit, his eyes glowed firecly like a hallow in the dust, as well as the mask forming. While everyone assumes that's when the Hallow form attached to him, I think it was his Hallow form being able to take shape, and escape, whch would explain why he looked like a hallow upon exit (glowing eyes and all.)

Again, I don't have much evidence, just major speculation, but I feel that it does still fit and it's the most obvious answer, which what I think it isn't. So I might not have much evidence, but then again, what evidence was there about Aizen?

[XanBcoo]

It's still somewhat unclear why Aizen didn't go after Rukia sooner, or why Uruhara felt he needed to hide her since she's been fine up until now. Maybe making her human neutralizes the energy ball somehow?

0.o those questions were answered in this episode. Aizen explained that by the time he learned that the Hogyouku was inside Rukia, she was already hidden in the human world, inside an untraceable gigai (untraceable because it turned the user into a regular human spirit). It seems he couldn't go after her sooner.

Also, I think people attrbuting Ichigo's natural strength to the Hollow hybrid is kinda weird, because he is only able to use that strength when the Hollow is awakened. Any other abilities have nothing to do with him using that power, or overcoming any power-cap. That's the way it seems, at least.

[darkmetal505]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
damn, darkmetal505 and all the other manga prophets are so elite......
I mean, only someone as clever as him could've devised a plan to DOWNLOAD RAR FILES from bleach7.com

im not tryin to say im awesome, I was just spoiler removed.

User has been warned for spoiling. Refer to your PM as to why.
GotWoot Moderator

[Munsu]

Those comments are not welcomed, thank you.

[KoKo37]

Originally posted by: darkmetal505

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
damn, darkmetal505 and all the other manga prophets are so elite......
I mean, only someone as clever as him could've devised a plan to DOWNLOAD RAR FILES from bleach7.com

im not tryin to say im awesome, I was just SPOILER REMOVED

well um, does your theroy come from the anime or the manga? if its from the anime please post your theroy, if its from the manga wtf are u telling us for.

[Jadugar]

Originally posted by: KoKo37
well um, does your theroy come from the anime or the manga? if its from the anime please post your theroy, if its from the manga wtf are u telling us for.

Ichigo's powers are explained in the manga. You will just have to wait for it.

[Kensee]

Originally posted by: Jadugar

Originally posted by: KoKo37
well um, does your theroy come from the anime or the manga? if its from the anime please post your theroy, if its from the manga wtf are u telling us for.

Ichigo's powers are explained in the manga. You will just have to wait for it.

Till then, hes a freak of nature. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Aizen is very intersting, when you first learn about his plan and the more you go into it, the more of a "omg friken smartty villian" he be. He planned out everythign! Maybe He even planned in the peopel trying to save Rukia (since he's been aorund urahara and knows of his device, he'd probabaly realized that urahara wouldnt want the device to fall in aizen's or anyone'es hands ... thus he would plot a rescue attempt).

Lets just say he outsmarted everyone -_-.

And remember, the quiet ones with glasses are always the first one to do a mind fawk!

Edit: everything else was said arealdy in the last 8 pages -_-. Also I'm back!!!! computer fully fixed! Time to watch the episodes I missed and play UT2K4!

[Oolite]

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
reincarnation? theres a obvious reason, but if I posted, it would be a spoiler.

Yes, some people think too much. They just ignored the obvious.

Use Occam's Razor.

His sisters also has the power, genetics or just all freaks?

I take the simplest solution, but then I could be wrong.