Bleach 61

[Inazuma]

I think Ichigo is in Aizen equations ...
All Captains went " Wtf you're strong Ryoka "
But Aizen goes " was I too soft ? "
Ok there's some large power gap between them but ... Comon' Aizen is a mastermind no way he could rule out such a huge X factor.

Aizen got Ichigo's party into his plans
And he is the one talkin about Shinigami/Hollow
Could Ichigo and/or his familly an experimentation of Urahara techniques ?
It would explain why they can see holowand ghosts ...
Why Ichigo could have broke Rukia's Kidou
Why Ichigo got this IchiHollow within him
Death of Ichigo's mother could have trigger all this ...

60 & 61 makes Bleach's plot a lot more entropic and I'm sure everyone is pleased about that

[Munsu]

I still think it has to do with the way he ended up becoming a Shinigami...

He almost turned into a Hollow in the process, so I think it is merely a side-effect of that...

[Kraco]

Originally posted by: K.Kashier
I mean, when Unohana discovered Aizen and Gin in front of Room 46, if she was with them, then Aizen wouldn't explain everything to her cause she would have already known, and her lieutnant wouldn't send a message to all the captains to say : "Everybody, let's kick Aizen ass, he is at Soukyokou"

How do you know that? If it's Aizen's plan to get everybody to the execution grounds, then why shouldn't the liutenant send the message? Such a claim makes no sense at all. I already explained the logic in my previous post, but let me state one fact that I didn't directly type down: The only way Aizen could have stopped the immediate gathering would have been to kill both Unohana and her liutenant, if they aren't his allies, or tell Unohana to do nothing, if she are his ally.

Of course this could be a flaw in the plot, but seriously... In a plot this good, why would there be such?

[Munsu]

I also don't think she's with Aizen...

According to Aizen, the role of the Ryoka's was to stirr up SS so that he can go about his plans... It makes no sense for him to make Unahana explain the situation to all SS so that they go after him... Unless he's sure that he has succeeded on his plans, and thinks nothing can stop him from now on.

[K.Kashier]

Originally posted by: Kraco

Originally posted by: K.Kashier
I mean, when Unohana discovered Aizen and Gin in front of Room 46, if she was with them, then Aizen wouldn't explain everything to her cause she would have already known, and her lieutnant wouldn't send a message to all the captains to say : "Everybody, let's kick Aizen ass, he is at Soukyokou"

How do you know that? If it's Aizen's plan to get everybody to the execution grounds, then why shouldn't the liutenant send the message? Such a claim makes no sense at all. I already explained the logic in my previous post, but let me state one fact that I didn't directly type down: The only way Aizen could have stopped the immediate gathering would have been to kill both Unohana and her liutenant, if they aren't his allies, or tell Unohana to do nothing, if she are his ally.

Of course this could be a flaw in the plot, but seriously... In a plot this good, why would there be such?

You don't explain why he tells her all about his plan.

And i think there is a little misunderstanding, let me explain better:

If she was with them as i said previously, why would Aizen waste his time talking. He would have tell her to contact now everybody, and would have gone to the Soukyokou.
I can understand why it could be in his plan to gather everybody but then it doesn't explain why Aizen must explain everything to Unohana ! If i'm plotting something with one of my friends, i don't see the use not to tell her about what i'm about to do. It's as simple as that. Besides, Unohana seemed very surprised when Aizen told her about his actions.
I'm just saying that i don't think they're ally but i can be true. You have just your theory and i have mine.No problem. I just defend my own. You have some good point (presence of Unohana without backup) but for me it's more the fact that why would she be so surpised about Aizen plan and the fact that Tousen sided with Aizen if she was with them too. It makes no sense.
There are no reasons for her to fake her surpise cause if she was her ally, they would have talked about what's next on the plan instead of explaining her everything.

And why would he tell her that he doubt they'll meet again he she is one of her ally ?

Moreover i don't think Aizen is worried about Captains gathering, he is so powerful that he beats them with a single hit. I mean Gin and him just keep smiling all the time, even when Hitsugaya goes bankai. It's quite strange how calm they are. As if it was nothing to them and they were convinced that nothing can stop them. Fights are just like "Let's have a little fun before we accomplish our goal" for Aizen.

Well, we'll see in the next episode ! (sorry for my poor english, i'm french and i haven't practice for a long time.)

[el_boss]

Originally posted by: K.Kashier
If she was with them as i said previously, why would Aizen waste his time talking. He would have tell her to contact now everybody, and would have gone to the Soukyokou.
I can understand why it could be in his plan to gather everybody but then it doesn't explain why Aizen must explain everything to Unohana ! If i'm plotting something with one of my friends, i don't see the use not to tell her about what i'm about to do. It's as simple as that. Besides, Unohana seemed very surprised when Aizen told her about his actions.
I'm just saying that i don't think they're ally but i can be true. You have just your theory and i have mine.No problem. I just defend my own. You have some good point (presence of Unohana without backup) but for me it's more the fact that why would she be so surpised about Aizen plan and the fact that Tousen sided with Aizen if she was with them too. It makes no sense.
There are no reasons for her to fake her surpise cause if she was her ally, they would have talked about what's next on the plan instead of explaining her everything.

And why would he tell her that he doubt they'll meet again he she is one of her ally ?

Yet again.

Originally posted by: el_boss
They had to put up the act so that Kotetsu would inform everyone and it had to look/sound real.

Originally posted by: Budweineken
I also don't think she's with Aizen...

According to Aizen, the role of the Ryoka's was to stirr up SS so that he can go about his plans... It makes no sense for him to make Unahana explain the situation to all SS so that they go after him... Unless he's sure that he has succeeded on his plans, and thinks nothing can stop him from now on.

Ok, Unohana might not be with Aizen (though I still think she is) but at least she and Kotetsu are being manipulated by him. Obviously it's part of Aizen's plan to gather everyone on the hill, maybe he will drain their powers so he will become even more powerful or something. He has calculated every angle of the plan, so I don't think he would let Unohana and Kotetsu live if it wouldn't benefit him. And it wasn't Unohana that alerted everyone it was Kotetsu.

If in fact it would turn out to be a mistake to let Unohana and Kotetsu live and Aizen is defeated bacause of that. This will be the shittiest plot ever, in the same league as scooby doo "if it wasn't for those damn meddling shinigamis". I sure hope this isn't the case, 'cause if it is, I won't be able to watch Bleach anymore.

[Kraco]

Originally posted by: K.Kashier
If i'm plotting something with one of my friends, i don't see the use not to tell her about what i'm about to do. It's as simple as that.

el_boss summed up nicely everything I would have written as an answer, so I will just pick this question from your lenghty text.

If you were a shinigami and were dealing with Aizen (and knew something of his evil deeds and intentions), would you personally expect that kind of guy to tell you everything? I have no doubt he tells his so called allies nothing more than he thinks they need to know, and not all of that is even probably true. And characters like that are likely to kill even their allies or friends when they are no longer of any use, or if it's useful to kill them somehow (like Hinamori).

When you make a deal with the devil, you better watch your back.

[naruto22]

This is a theory I posted previously but nobody even gave it a single thought, nor thought it was logical.

The plain fact is that Unohana just might be STRONGER than him. Why did Aizen not kill her? Why did Aizenleave after explaining the whole plot to her?

Face it, even if Aizen had left instantly the moment he saw Unohana, Unohana would still call and alert the others and every shinigami in Sereitei would be after his head. So it actually makes no sense that Aizen DID NOT kill her. Even if Unohana is a weak captain, all the more reason to shut her up rather than let her warn everybody in Sereitei.

Of course there's the possiblity that Aizen couldn't care less if 11 Captains come screaming for his neck. But honestly, I don't think he's that crazy. Sure he defeated Hitsugaya in one shot but Hitsugaya was mad with rage and I hate to say it. probably the least experienced among the Captains. I don't think even he can stand up to the combined might of all the Captains and their vice captains.

Remember that Shiba Kukaku is up to something as well. Possibly she's going to bust into Sereitei as well since all hell has broken loose in Sereitei. I would be suprised if she came into the fray looking for a fight as well.

So again, if Unohana was weak, Aizen would have shut her up and be done with it rather than let her warn everybody of his plans. But he didn't. The fact he was explaining the whole story to Unohana may actually be buying time for Tousen to capture Rukia and Renji. And even if he was buying time, he still should have slenced her rather than raise the alarm.

But he didn't. Possible conclusions:

1) Aizen is plain stupid. (hate to say his, but he is not)

2) Aizen is a show-off (he is but he picked the correct time to do so)

3) Aizen knows that Unohana will raise the alarm but figures every body is so wrapped up in their fights, they won't listen.

4) Aizen figures even if the alarm is raised, all the captains would be too weary to fight after fighting one another.

5) Aizen decides that he can't afford to mess with Unohana since he needs to get the Hogyoku from Rukia ASAP. So he delays Unohana with the story and waits for Tosen to capture Rukia. Then get the hell out of there rather than get into a messy fight with Unohana.

i go with point 5. But for some reason, everybody is so set in their minds that nothing in 4th Squad can be powerful, even their captains.

Well, here's another food for thought: who is a better killer? a soldier or a doctor?

[mage]

if unohana was so strong, she would've tried to kill him right there. she didn't because she knew she had no chance, and aizen didn't bother with her because it would be a waste of time.

[Terracosmo]

Quit being silly. Of course Unohana isn't stronger than Aizen.
Can you say plot device? Someone needed to inform the rest of SS about Aizen's actions. Someone also needed to make sure Hitsugaya & Hinamori survives (which they probably will, seeing as Unohana went to heal them).

Please end the discussion there, as everything else is wrong.

In case someone still needs a reminder, squad 4 is the weakest (QUOTE from Hanatarou), and Aizen obliterated Hitsugaya (in bankai mode), Renji & Ichigo without even breaking a sweat. The mere prospect of Unohana being able to pull that off is laughable.

Also, in case you don't watch the previews... (PREVIEW SPOILERS)








Aizen will also apparently have no problems with Komamura, since he looks very confident while catching someone's blade (assuming that's Komamura's, and even if it isn't, it would happen after Komamura's attack anyway).

[Knives122]

What!!!

Komamura just turned into a 5 story building giant with the "Your ass is mine" expression on his face. How can Aizen not lose?

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Cal_kashi
heres the way I see it. Sandal-hat developed this bad thing. and then a worse thing (the untracable gigai) that got him expelled.
Rukia transfered her powers to ichigo and temporarily needed a gigai. Sandal hat saw this as an opportunity to hide the hogyouku and 2 facedly gave rukia the untracable gigai with teh hogyouku inside.
Now, as soon as Aizen realized that Rukia was missing he knew that it could only be because she was in sandal-hats Gigai., which meant that sandal hat had probably put the hogyouku into her, because of the inherent safety in hiding something, in someone who happens to be untracable.
Then, Aizen hatched his evil plan and followed through, as he had probably been searching for the hogyouku endlessly and put it all together when Rukia fell off the radar.

When are you people going to stop being wrong about this >_<
Information about Rukia having the hogyouku existed before she even put the gigai on. So stop saying he put it in the gigai directly.

[Assassin]

Originally posted by: mage
if unohana was so strong, she would've tried to kill him right there. she didn't because she knew she had no chance, and aizen didn't bother with her because it would be a waste of time.

Exactly. Its like Aizen says when ichigo shows up "dealing with 2 specs of dust is no different then dealing with one" or something like that. If he considers ichigo and renji, 2 captain lvl characters to be nothing more then insects he can easily step on, why would he bother with some weak medical shinigami.

Also, those of you who're saying that kotetsu's mesage is all part of aizen's plan cuz he wants to gather everyone at the execution grounds.....you're all idiots. What could he possibly want with them now? He's clearly after the hogyouku which is in rukia. His best chance at escaping is to NOT have 9 captains chasing him.

The only reason he let unohana live is cuz she wasn't worth killing. And im sure he expected her to go and inform everyone else, but aizen is either incredibly confident that he can take them all on (which he probably could from the looks of it) or he knows he'll be outta there before anyone shows up (which would be wierd. how cant escape that fast)

Edit:

When are you people going to stop being wrong about this >_<
Information about Rukia having the hogyouku existed before she even put the gigai on. So stop saying he put it in the gigai directly.

heh, ya that too. Stupid ppl, think about it. If it was in the gigai already, and the gigai is UNTRACABLE, thers no need to give it to anyone. He could just throw it in the ocean or something and forget about it. And he couldn't have put it in her WHILE he was giving her the gigai, otherwise she'd know all about it.

[masamuneehs]

The only advantage I see Unohana having is that she seems to be the only one who knows enough about Spirit Bodies. She noticed that there was something wrong with Aizen's Illusion Corpse, but wasn't sure what, probably being distracted by all the injuries from fights inside Soul Society at the time. I remember Aizen complimenting her for not being 100% fooled by his illusion..

So that leads me to think that Aizen, if he does fear Unohana at all (which I don't think he does) is because she might be the only one capable of seeing past his Illusion technique.

However, I feel Aizen left that fight when he did because he needed to meet up with Tousen and "The goods", not because he was afraid.

[Kraco]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Can you say plot device? Someone needed to inform the rest of SS about Aizen's actions. Someone also needed to make sure Hitsugaya & Hinamori survives (which they probably will, seeing as Unohana went to heal them).

Please end the discussion there, as everything else is wrong.

We have enough plot devices in Naruto fillers... I'll be damned before I start to foresee such in Bleach.

[miaka]

now.. did everybody forgot that everybody seen aizen's shikai?

aizen probably doesn't care.. izen just have to use his illusion tech to get captain's to attack something else while he sneak and give a death blow..(like hitsugaya) which is prob why aizen doesn't care if the captain's are gathering.. like aizen in this episode it doesn't matter if it's one or two..

or even if they are very strong and aizen doesn't want to fight.. then he just have to take rukia and run..using illusion

umm.. and also.. if unohara was with aizen.. why would she have not known that death of aizen was fake? (she only had suspicions.. ) and why would aizen kill hitsugaya and hinamori to have them rescued by his ally.. isn't that waste of time?

and the fact that unohara didn't seem to know nothing about his plans.. till she heard it from aizen.. i mean okay.. yeah.. you dnot' have to tell everything to your ally.. but wouldn't they know about it at least a little?

[anphorus]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
So that leads me to think that Aizen, if he does fear Unohana at all (which I don't think he does) is because she might be the only one capable of seeing past his Illusion technique.

Someone had a good answer to this in a previous thread (can't remember who): Aizen is able to make everyone see what he wants them to see, however, Unohana being a medical shinigami she WOULD know a lot about spirit bodies (as masamuneehs said) whereas Aizen (probably) doesn't. I mean could you or I imagine an entire body to the same detail as a skilled pathologist or doctor would? I think that that is the only reason that Unohana wasn't fooled.

I also agree with miaka, Aizen likely doesnt care if all the captains were to show up, he could just use his illusionary powers to make them think that he isn't even there, or is a tree or something.

[Knives122]

Very true, but like I said a while back Yamaji 'is' the strongest shinigami, all he would need to do is release his shikai and incinerate the moutain top and bye-bye Aizen.

Aizen's strong but he still can't tap dance with the top dog (yeah I know that was corny)

[mage]

Originally posted by: Knives122
Very true, but like I said a while back Yamaji 'is' the strongest shinigami, all he would need to do is release his shikai and incinerate the moutain top and bye-bye Aizen.

Aizen's strong but he still can't tap dance with the top dog (yeah I know that was corny)

I don't believe it was ever said that he is the strongest, but only that he has the strongest heat zanpakutou.

[anphorus]

Originally posted by: Knives122
Very true, but like I said a while back Yamaji 'is' the strongest shinigami, all he would need to do is release his shikai and incinerate the moutain top and bye-bye Aizen.

Aizen's strong but he still can't tap dance with the top dog (yeah I know that was corny)

Good point. I suppose the fact that he would also incinerate everyone else in the process isn't really important. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Though, he could just order everyone else to leave, and handle it himself. Im sure the head of the 13 squads is good enough to do that anouncement kido thingy.

Also: Fox guy must be pretty speedy to get up to the top of that hill so fast compared to the other captains. And Yorichi, the supposed King of Flash (for more than one reason, considering the bath scenes.)