Bleach 59

**XanBcoo** · Fri, 11-25-2005, 11:17 PM

Ugh, reading through 5 pages is what I get for being with family for thanksgiving instead of being on GW.

My thoughts on the episode have already been summed up, though.

1. Hollow Ichigo was really cool, especially the animation. However, I am kind of disappointed that even Bleach would resort to a hidden power boost when Ichigo gets in trouble. I guess it balances out though.

2. I hadn't considered that Hitsugaya had seen dead bodies everywhere. I thought it might have been something more earthshattering, but it seems VERY possible that he walked in on Gin standing amongst a bunch of fresh corpses. Or Gin could be good like the rest of you say. Who knows.

3. Did anyone notice the colors of Ichigo's and Byakuya's reiatsu? I thought it was funny that the good guy's was black and the baddie's was white. Though I suppose it fits Byakuya to have white energy.

4. I thought it was obvious that Byakuya was simply just a stickler for the rules. That's the impression I've had from him since his introduction to the series. I never really thought that there was anything besides that motive for killing Rukia (though I didn't rule out the possibility there WAS a larger conspiracy either). Was anyone else not suprised by his speech? Every bit of dialogue he's had has just proved he's an ass willing to kill his sister because she broke the law.

***Kraco*** · Sat, 11-26-2005, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
3. Did anyone notice the colors of Ichigo's and Byakuya's reiatsu? I thought it was funny that the good guy's was black and the baddie's was white. Though I suppose it fits Byakuya to have white energy.

Technically Byakuya isn't a bad guy. He's just extremely unsensitive and sticks to the law till the end. He's one of those people who think the letter of the law is more important than the spirit of the law. However, that doesn't make him a bad guy. Rukia broke the law and obviously her offense was bad enough to warrant a death penalty.

Moreover, Ichigo & company are people who broke into the SS and fought, destroyed property, and caused general havoc everywhere. To me, that sounds more like bad guys' action than following a law a bit too tightly and unmercifully - but still following the law.

Besides, nothing else but black would fit Zangetsu...

**XanBcoo** · Sat, 11-26-2005, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by: Kraco
Technically Byakuya isn't a bad guy. He's just extremely unsensitive and sticks to the law till the end. He's one of those people who think the letter of the law is more important than the spirit of the law. However, that doesn't make him a bad guy. Rukia broke the law and obviously her offense was bad enough to warrant a death penalty.

Yeah, I knew that. I was just using "goodguy" and "badguy" in the traditional sense of the terms (as in, the good guy's energy is usually pure white, and the baddie's is black). I like how Bleach made the contrast in this episode, and I was just wondering if the colors of their energy's are more of a metaphor (maybe Byakuya's white reiatsu stands for the Justice of SS), or just for style (like how Byaku = white, and as you said, nothing else but Black would fit Zangetsu).

Also, Tousen obviously has multiple attacks with his Shikai. We saw him use one against Ishida and the other against Zaraki. I don't think they are separate forms, just different abilities.

**ChaosK** · Fri, 11-25-2005, 11:20 PM

....wait, i was too lazy to read the last 5 pgs so screw it but

is there 3 releases now?
shikai-initial
bankai-secondary
senkai-3rd or final?

**XanBcoo** · Fri, 11-25-2005, 11:24 PM

Senkei is just the name of Byakuya's final form of Bankai. If anyone wants to check for the translation, post it. I forget what it means.

**kooshi** · Fri, 11-25-2005, 11:44 PM

Shikai and Bankai can have multiple ways of showing themselves. It's like how Tousen had that sleep thing he used on Ishida and the summoning of all those swords against Kenpachi.

**DarthEnderX** · Sat, 11-26-2005, 01:29 AM

Well, while I don't think Gin is the villain behind everything thats going on(for the aformentioned, he's just TOO obvious), he's definatly not a good guy. He's a huge dick. Kind of like how Byakuya isn't really a villain. Just a jerk.

I'm gonna have to assume there's some kind of Hollow controlling events here. I mean, they're supposed to be the badguys in this show.

**Oolite** · Mon, 11-28-2005, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by: DarthEnder
Well, while I don't think Gin is the villain behind everything thats going on(for the aformentioned, he's just TOO obvious), he's definatly not a good guy. He's a huge dick. Kind of like how Byakuya isn't really a villain. Just a jerk.

I'm gonna have to assume there's some kind of Hollow controlling events here. I mean, they're supposed to be the badguys in this show.

I think you are over thinking too. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Everything are on the table, in the next few shows things will become apparent. It depends on how much they wanted to stretch the story line.

**yapchagi** · Wed, 11-30-2005, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by: Kensee
Yep, the multiple moves you guys see are just different abilities of the Shaki n stuff (this is noticed when Ichigo says thats impressive but his sword only taught him ONE ability). Pretty much what he is saying is the answer to all specilation, that in fact there is only 1 shikai and only 1 bankai, but of course you can learn certain techinques for each form (usually the Shikai form). In tossen's case, his shikai has two attack techniques .. the circle he used on the Quincy, and the Rain of blades he used on Kenpachi, that is not his SHIKAI but just attacks he can use (much like how Ichigo can use the attack technique that shoots out a beam of energy etc).

Bayaka really only has 1 bankai, its just he cna manipulate it depending on his situation. If he wants defense and attack, he does sakura flowers, if he wants all out attack and no defense he does his sphere of swords thing.

Yeah and theres still a lot of the story to be uncovered (hell the Manga isnt that farther off from the anime so even manga readers still have so many unanswered questions). SO just sit back and let it come =D.

Maybe I should say it this way...
There are 2 stages:
- Shikai.
- Bankai.

And for each stage, there are probably more than 1 form depending on the user if he/she is able to use the it.

Captain Tousen:
So far, we've only seen 2 forms while he's in SHIKAI stage.
When he fought the Quincy, he used some form (not 2nd form) and the 2nd form Benihikou he used againts Zaraki Kenpachi. (Notice that he said Suzumushi second form: Benihikou)

We're not sure if it was the 1st form (when he used to the Quincy) or maybe it was the 3rd form...well he didn't say it. He may have more than 2 forms right?

Kuchiki Byakuya:
While he's in Bankai stage...He has 3 forms:
- Senbonzakura Kageyoshi.
- Senkei Senbonzakura Kageyoshi.
- Shuukei Hakureiken (the final form or the true form)

Simply, 2 Stages:
STAGE 1 SHIKAI :
- 1st form
- 2nd form
- etc

STAGE 2 BANKAI :
- 1st form
- 2nd form
- etc

And of course, u can use all the forms of Shikai stage when u're in Bankai stage. (Notice Ichigo used Getsuga Tenshou while he's in Bankai stage).
But u can't use any of the forms in Bankai stage while u're only in Shikai stage.
Well maybe someone can if he's strong enough while in Shikai stage.

It's just like u can read CD with a DVD-ROM, but u can't read DVD with a CD-ROM.

**FrogKing** · Wed, 11-30-2005, 03:08 AM

I think that this is a fitting time to drop Xan's previous reply...

Originally posted by: XanBcoo

**Honinbou** · Sat, 11-26-2005, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by: kooshi
Shikai and Bankai can have multiple ways of showing themselves. It's like how Tousen had that sleep thing he used on Ishida and the summoning of all those swords against Kenpachi.

hmmz Tousen didn't use his bankai against Ishida did he? he didn't say "bankai" but "sing" or something (cant remember exactly) so I guess that was his shikai..

**FrogKing** · Sat, 11-26-2005, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by: Honinbou

Originally posted by: kooshi
Shikai and Bankai can have multiple ways of showing themselves. It's like how Tousen had that sleep thing he used on Ishida and the summoning of all those swords against Kenpachi.

hmmz Tousen didn't use his bankai against Ishida did he? he didn't say "bankai" but "sing" or something (cant remember exactly) so I guess that was his shikai..

Just to clairify what I think Kooshi meant was that against Ishida he released by saying, "Sing Suzumushi" and against Kenpachi he had a second Shikai form "Benihikou Suzumshi". Therefore, it is perfectly conceivable that there are multiple froms of a Bankai. The said example is from Byakuya's 3 forms: 1) Kageyoshi 2) Senkei Senbonzakura Kageyoshi 3) Shuukei Hakuteiken. I think that Ichigo has a long way to becoming more skilled in his Bankai (and Shikai for that matter)
Mmmmmmmm, turkey......

edit: I realized that form and release are not comparable, so I omitted release when I really meant form.

**Naruto_RNG** · Sat, 11-26-2005, 12:28 PM

I too think there are 3 stages once or release bankai. if it's true that would be cool. cause if ichigo reached his final sword tranformation now this early in the series, it could only mean one thing they're trying to finish the show soon. that would suck even more. does anybody remeber DBZ, SS3 was supppose to be the last transformation but DBGT had one more up it's sleeve. now i'm not comparing the animes but wouldn't be cool if ichi achived the 4th transformation using his hollow side.

**mage** · Sat, 11-26-2005, 06:27 PM

in the manga there is a cover page that has ichigo and byakuya on it and says Black Passion vs White Pride

**el_boss** · Sat, 11-26-2005, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by: mage
in the manga there is a cover page that has ichigo and byakuya on it and says Black Passion vs White Pride

Your point being? Does it bother you that the "hero" has a black aura? I bet you would rather it were "white white vs white white."

**Sirian** · Sat, 11-26-2005, 09:34 PM

Black is much cooler anyway. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

**The Heretic Azazel** · Sat, 11-26-2005, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by: el_boss

Originally posted by: mage
in the manga there is a cover page that has ichigo and byakuya on it and says Black Passion vs White Pride

Your point being? Does it bother you that the "hero" has a black aura? I bet you would rather it were "white white vs white white."

Well, I found it funny that the manga said that [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Byakuya has white pride baby!!

**mage** · Sun, 11-27-2005, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by: el_boss

Originally posted by: mage
in the manga there is a cover page that has ichigo and byakuya on it and says Black Passion vs White Pride

Your point being? Does it bother you that the "hero" has a black aura? I bet you would rather it were "white white vs white white."

it took me awhile to figure out what you were talking about, but, good one.

**ChaosK** · Sat, 11-26-2005, 10:02 PM

wait...if there are 3 forms of release, then ichigo beat byakuya's 3rd release with a 2nd? thats bullshit...

**kooshi** · Sat, 11-26-2005, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
wait...if there are 3 forms of release, then ichigo beat byakuya's 3rd release with a 2nd? thats bullshit...

I was probably not clear on my previous post, but Shikai and Bankai can have different.... representations.

Examples: Tousen's Shikai includes:
- Nake (Sing)
- Suzumushi Form 2: Benihikou

Ikkaku's Shikai includes:
- Extend
- Split

Byakuya's Bankai includes:
- Kageyoshi (Blossom Brutal Shadows)
- Senkei Senbonzakura Kageyoshi (Thousand Cherry Blossoms Brutal Shadows)
- Shuukei Hakuteiken (White Imperial Sword)

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