Bleach 58 Discussion

[XanBcoo]

The manji (swastika thing) is the "ban" in "Bankai" Heero's right, it's also used in Buddhism for the ideas of "rebirth" and reincarnation.

But that does bring up the issue of censorship. What will happen when they try and show this on American TV when Bleach is eventually licensed? Surely a lot of people will take it the wrong way and assume it's just Nazi propaganda or some such BS.

[Munsu]

Naruto anime (Japanese version) had the same dilemma with Neji, and they ended up censoring it... At least it didn't happen this time...

[Deadfire]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
The manji (swastika thing) is the "ban" in "Bankai" Heero's right, it's also used in Buddhism for the ideas of "rebirth" and reincarnation.

But that does bring up the issue of censorship. What will happen when they try and show this on American TV when Bleach is eventually licensed? Surely a lot of people will take it the wrong way and assume it's just Nazi propaganda or some such BS.

They always do, although for as much as we know they could (when they dub this) kill it so bad in the early eps that it never gets to this part

On the topic of fillers I'm not going to talk about if i think DB is right, I lost all faith in them after they created a Troll sub for naruto that had gay porn on it...Yes I didn't know what i was downloading in till it was to late. my topic is if they do fillers (that is IF) they will start when the crew gets back (or if they!) and it will be about their school day with ramdom hollow killings here and there I.E FMP: fummoffo (I think thats the spelling I could be wrong) that would keep me happy as some decent filler could come out of that

[Board of Command]

It's not a swastika, it's a backwards swastika. The Nazis copied that symbol from Buddhism and flipped it and rotated it around. Creative bastards.

edit: here, some pictures for proof, if you don't believe me

[Kensee]

I'ma be gone for two weeks or more to repair my computer >_< So i'ma miss the next two episode releases (nooooooooooooooooooooo!) Anyhow I have finals those two weeks so I'll be studying anyhow with a itch for bleach =(.

Anyhow yeah its not the nasi sign but sure looked like it at first ^^. And as for speculation about the swords, I don't think the sword Ichigo grabbed was acutally the bankai form itself, just a sword which showed is zampathou's true side (not really bankai, but maybe something like it). I doubt they will ever show us .. but if it was that sword I could iamgine Ichigo saying "what the hell is this puny arse sword doing here? OMG IT oWNS hahah"

All we need now is Kenpachi unleashing his sword ... I wounder what his shikai and bankai would look like ...

[masamuneehs]

Regarding the whole Nazi swastika/Buddhist symbol ordeal:

Jesus friggin H Christ, it's not that big of a deal! The fact that everyone is so sensitive over the 'perverted' misuse of the symbol by the Nazis simply shows how inflexible people are when it comes to redefining their notions of cultural symbols and thoughts. "OMFG!!!11!1 thaz a Nasi smbol!" Is what immature little children (or ultra sensitive Jews) might react with. But that's totally inappropriate, given the fact that the people using the swastike now are simply trying to correct for the inappropriate misuse of the symbol by the Nazis.

They shouldn't censor such positive re-hashes (of ancient symbols nonetheless...) just because narrow-minded baffoons might get their panties all in a twist because they think someones trying to abuse recent history or sensative material by sticking a swastike on stuff. I'm glad Bleach had the balls to do what Naruto wouldn't (although, it most be noticed, the swastike usage in Bleach is much more subtle) and actually fucking try to truly defeat the scourge of Nazisism by robbing them of even their beloved symbol, which continues to haunt us in the modern day.

[FrogKing]

Originally posted by: FrogKing
The Swastika was often associated with Buddha in India, China, and Japan. In the earliest Chinese symbolism the swastika was known as wan and was a superlative of the highest degree. In Japan it was said to be a sign for the magnificent number 10,000. In Japan of the Middle Ages the swastika (or the sauvastika) was manji, a sign for enormous luck and protection against evil powers...

The swastika form is associated with the sun and power. The swastika moving in a clockwise direction is related to the form and also its meaning, reincarnation, return, etc. The swastika symbolizes, therefore, national reincarnation.
(source: Dictionary of Symbols, published 1991)"

I actually thought the parts about symbolizing protection against evil powers and enormous luck were very fitting. Also, with Ichigo's appearence mirroring Kaien-dono's the "reincarnation, return" was very interesting. That's what I was pointing out; it is obviously not a nazi reference.

As for Neji's forehead swastika, I think it is the bad luck/misfortune symbol.

edit: Good luck with finals Kensee and see you in a couple of weeks.

[Kraco]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
But that does bring up the issue of censorship. What will happen when they try and show this on American TV when Bleach is eventually licensed? Surely a lot of people will take it the wrong way and assume it's just Nazi propaganda or some such BS.

Heh. If somebody thinks nazis are back in power after 60 years because there's such a symbol in Japanese animation... Well, such a person should spend the rest of his life in his personal bunker.

Unfortunately censoring swastika will do no good like masamuneehs said. As long as it's censored, it does give some little power to nazis, which is a bit ridiculous considering they were obliterated more than half a century ago.

[Jessper]

Originally posted by: Kraco
Unfortunately censoring swastika will do no good like masamuneehs said. As long as it's censored, it does give some little power to nazis, which is a bit ridiculous considering they were obliterated more than half a century ago.

Who cares? Not censoring it is not sticking it to the Nazis or anything, and censoring it doesn't show that they sill hold some sort of power over us. Not showing it may show respect to the people that lost family members to the evil doings of the Nazis, not some how empower Hitler. It isn't like we fear them and as such don't want to invoke their mighty wrath by using their symbol.

My point? Who cares? If you aren't related to those that died chances are you won't. The fact that you feel that people should some how correct misuse of the symbol then chances are you care too much about something that you have nothing to do with. Not that I care, go draw it all over your flowery save the world websites and/or art if you want to show them darn Nazis up some more!

I doubt they will even censor this.

[V]

So you think they're gonna do fillers about Ichigo's training? Something like 24 where every hour is an episode. Zengetsu makes Ichigo do all these tricks and at the end he just laughs and says: "Psych! I'm just messin' with ya. To use Bankai, you just have to look like you're shittin your pants. And here, use this thin black sword. It's so light, you'll move 100 times faster than before now that you don't have to lug around that steal mill of a soul slayer." Then Zangetsu and Yorouichi get it on.

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: Kraco

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
But that does bring up the issue of censorship. What will happen when they try and show this on American TV when Bleach is eventually licensed? Surely a lot of people will take it the wrong way and assume it's just Nazi propaganda or some such BS.

Heh. If somebody thinks nazis are back in power after 60 years because there's such a symbol in Japanese animation... Well, such a person should spend the rest of his life in his personal bunker.

Well apparently it is a problem for some people. Bud already mentioned the Neji thing, and I also recall there being a problem with the US release of some Pokemon card a few years back because it had a swastika (or a mangi - forgot which) on it.

[DarthEnderX]

Haha, I was enlightened enough to refer to it as a manji first.

Thank you Legend of Zelda instruction book!

My point? Who cares? If you arent related to those that died chances are you won't. The fact that you feel that people should some how correct misuse of the symbol then chances are you care too much about something that you have nothing to do with. Not that I care, go draw it all over your flowery save the world websites and/or art if you want to show them darn Nazis up some more!

I'm gonna go murder a bunch of babies and leave pictures of Frog around when I do it. Then you'll look like an evil monster for having that avatar!

[Jaredster]

I personally thought that swastika was a nice touch to the sword.

(not rascist)


But allow me to sum up this episode in 2 words:

Fucking Tits.

[mage]

Originally posted by: Jaredster
I personally thought that swastika was a nice touch to the sword.
[/b]

so did i.

(racist).

[Deadfire]

I like the fact that I added something use-full to the discussion in my last post but instead we talked about swastikas.... this shows alot of charactor

Well I am a newcomer so most don't really look at my posts yet... and most likly not read this one

And so I just wasted my time

anyways to comment of the whole swastika thing....All I need to say is so?....It's a swastika... you haven't seen it before..come off it...it's a symbol nothing thing else...move on

[Honoko]

you know guys, it's easy for many of us to have the attitude of "hey, it's just the symbol! who cares!" because we (very obviously) didn't live in that era but if you actually take a look beyond your little world, you're gonna encounter TONS of people whose history is closely defined by WWII. i understand it's hard for all of us to actually know the full extent of the damage that had been done a half century ago but show some sensitivity and intelligence here. there are whole books still dedicated this subject today and the nazi symbol is singularly unique in having its original meaning totally corrupted and possibly beyond redemption thanks to a brunette with a funny looking mustache ranting on and on about an aryan, superior race. yeah, to us it's "just" a symbol but we shouldn't be dismissing it as a dumb product of a bygone era, which is the sentiment i am feeling based on the recent posts.

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

Originally posted by: Deadfire
anyways to comment of the whole swastika thing....All I need to say is so?....It's a swastika... you haven't seen it before..come off it...it's a symbol nothing thing else...move on

lol just wat i was thinking, this whole thing has gotten out of hand, i shouldn't even have said anything about that stupid nazi/swastika or watever sign thingie, i thought it would just make a funny joke, but watever, just let it go and move on now
@deadfire: don't worry i respect you and read your posts, you seem to give some good stuff and good posts, others probably read your posts too, i think you're a great addition to the gotwoot family [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

now back to topic, this episode kicked ass, ichigo's bankai looks better in the anime than in the manga, i was really surprised at how good this episode was, can't wait for next episode, senbonzakura still rulezzzzzz

[ChaosK]

cant we just talk about the fuckin episode instead of nazis and jews?

[Deadfire]

First I'm Pure-Bred German (I live in canada and I've lost the use of reading and speaking in german) I'm one of those people that fit's the brunettes "superior" race sterotype (Blond hair, blue eyes, taller, etc) And I have lived my life with people like you calling me a killer!!!.. How the hell do you think i feel when I didn't even live during that time and yet I'm a killer. I've been called "Hitler" many times, As well have many people give your same post in writing and speach toward me....If I'm dissing a "dumb: product it would be people that feel the need to inform people that this happened and make what i just explained happen to alot of people that are not born yet!... I know what happened... But me and no German that is born after that war have no way of ridding ourselves of your directed hate because of people posting shit like what you just did


Edit: "You" doesn't refer to Honoko it will refer to those people i have met over the years that had caused this outburst... I will leave my message as a message to those and to end this stupid off-topic debate

[Honoko]

um.. deadfire, you should read my post a little more carefully. and i pm'ed you. this discussion doesn't need to hang around in an episode thread.