Sasuke VS Neji

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
That's right, now take into account that Kaiten manipulates Chakra just like Chidori and Rasengan, but for a differen't purpose. Compare Sasuke's body stopping arm's length in the tank, to Sasuke's attack stopping short of actually Hitting Neji IF he managed to puncture through Kaiten. Again, Sasuke would be caught off guard, and...Well I'm not going to repeat my self on that possibility.

BTW, as for your Hinata/Neji example of Jyuuken.......The reason why Hinata didn't die from her injuries (though she was extremely fucked up from them) is because Neji didn't want to kill her, this would be entirely different in a Demon Seal Sasuke vs Neji fight, were Neji would know he'd have to fight for his life.

I suppose for that first point, I naturally assume that when the chakra in the Kaiten is disrupted enough, it breaks the Kaiten. This happens both when he was attacked by Naruto during the chuunin exam, and also in the Narutimett Hero games (this is not evidence, it just adds to my assumption). I'll wait for Strider's responses to my previous argument.

Also, Neji was going to kill Hinata. He had to be stopped by the rest of the Jounin to prevent him from doing some serious damage. This is back when he was asshole-Neji. In any case, my point is still the same. Jyuuken doesn't work in a "one hit anywhere on the body is an instant kill" way.

[darkmetal505]

Originally posted by: Strider
Because Kakashi has always been known to give Gai his full attention and respond to his idiocy?

Gai in a serious tone?

This is the same serious Jounin, who in a serious tone, pulled Lee aside prior to his preliminary match to seriously inform him that Gaara's gourd seemed suspicious in a serious way.

You're seriously not selling this one. Seriously.

They wouldnt put a jackass as a Jounin. Why would Gai pull out something ridiculous as "it cut through lightning" (by the way, all the "idiotic" remarks are usually accompanied by the nice guy pose or some stance, which wasnt the case in this remark).

If your not willing to accept it, I'll post screenshots

Originally posted by: Strider

Your minions amuse me. What can I say?

your lack of weenie amuses me

[Strider]

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
This much is true, but keep in mind when the seal is activated, it boosts the users strength and speed. Meaning Sasuke could maintain Lee's speed for a given time (granted, not very long), but then activate the first level of the seal when he can't sustain that speed any longer, become even stronger and faster for a period of time, and finally activate the 2nd level, which grants more than enough power to overcome Neji.

Popping some speed or crack, when you're already tired or beatdown is not going to make you feel any better about previous ailments.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
In any case, the 3-pupil Sharingan has not much to do with the power of the Chidori (save for getting rid of the blind spot due to the great speed), I know that.

You know that, and I know that.

You know that I know that we're all knowing of what we know about that.

They don't know anything, though.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
But about the water tank...I'm quite sure Sasuke "cut" through it just fine. His arm was lodged in a shredded hole inside it, meaning that he cut through it. Follow? It didn't go out the back (like the Rasengan) because the range of the Chidori is only equal to the range of the user's reach. Sasuke was thrown into the water tank, ripped through it with his hand, and came to a stop because of the force of the rest of the tank on his body. The Rasengan exploded the tank out the back because it does a different type of damage. The water tank argument does not detract at all from the power or effectiveness of the Chidori at all.

I believe the water tank argument does detract the effectiveness of the Chidori against Kaiten.

You stated yourself that the Chidori's reach is merely as long as the caster's full extension of their arm. In this case, this is the length of Sasuke's arm. I won't bother trying to imagine how long Sasuke's arm is, because despite how long his arms are, it is not long enough to strike Neji. And, this is given the benefit of penetrating the Heavenly Whirl to begin with.

Sasuke penetrates Kaiten, which projects from Neji at about two to three meters, with his uber Chidori. Unable to reach, his arm is now lodged within this rotating dome of fairly solid energy. It is only a moment before Sasuke is also caught within the momentum of the vortex, and consequently flung away.

I almost think of Gaara's Sphere of Sand, which was smaller than Kaiten. Sasuke's arm was stuck with in it. It would not have been so pleasant has that sphere been constantly spinning and spiralling about.

On another note, Naruto's entire body was enveloped within the Kyuubi's chakra, which is later revealed to completely protect him (and harm) at the same time, when disrupting Neji's Kaiten. The constant resistance from all sides, against Kaiten which was spinning from all sides, is what caused the stalemate. Sasuke is not as fortunate to have access to something of that nature.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
That's pretty much how I understood it to have happened too. I was merely referring to the fact that Sasuke's Chidori was able to overcome and defeat an attack by Naruto using the Rasengan in some way or another. But if you want to get techincal, then I could point out that when the two attacks collided, and the final blows were dealt, Sasuke still had his Chidori activated and punched Naruto with it, whereas Naruto's Kyuubi-Rasengan seemed to have vanished and he whacked Sasuke's head protector with his claws. It was almost as if the Rasengan had been dissipated.

Actually, if you would like to get technical, the Rasengan went across Sasuke's forehead protector. It did not go into his head, as the Chidori went into Naruto's shoulder / heart area. With nothing for the Rasengan to connect with and show off it's effects, it is expected for it to seem to dissipate as it did not truly collide with anything.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
Where is this "one touch anywhere on the body from Jyuuken is an instant kill" argument coming from?

I'm not sure, as I never said something in those words or to that extent.

One hit is all Neji needs to take control of the match, and it does not even need to be a direct hit.

See "Neji v. Hinata" and "Neji v. Kidoumaru" for further evidence of this.

I'll elaborate what I mean in further detail in a later post, if requested or required.

In addition, while I never said it before, I will now: I only believe it takes one strike to kill.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
My memory's fuzzy, but I beleive Hinata was attacked with a strike from Jyuuken, and survived just fine. I also recall Naruto being hit with a Jyuuken strike as well as the 64 hakke attack, and not dying. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think I am.

Your memory serves you correctly. They were both struck with Jyuuken assaults and did not die.

However, this is because Neji was not trying to kill them. When Neji did decide to attempt to kill Hinata, it was going to be one final blow -- most likely similar to the final blow within that Ougi .gif someone posted earlier. I also assess it was one final blow due to the firm stance Neji was in, with merely one hand extended, while the other arm laid languidly behind him.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
The Hakke Rokuju Yonsho is a method of stopping one's flow of Chakra, not killing (arguably, Sasuke could recover from its effects with the power of the curse seal - but really, this is unknown, so I'll accept it as a moot point).

I disagree.

Stopping one's chakra flow is the only method we have seen it utilized for.

It's been stated that with Jyuuken, you can regulate an opponent's chakra with its touch -- be it increasing the amount of chakra they are forced to use, or shutting it down, rendering them unable to use any.

Why do you believe it is possible for Sasuke's Seal to allow him to recover from having his chakra points sealed / stopped?

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
I disagree, and can tell you the Rokujuu Yonsho is just an attack used in conjunction with the bloodline limit: Byakugan. The whole Jyuuken style revolves around being able to precisely control one's chakra, so yes, I'd say that anyone with good chakra control could use it if they really tried. It wouldn't do any good though, because the Byakugan is needed to see the correct targets for this type of style. That is, the inner chakra system. This is why only the Hyuuga use it. As far as Sasuke goes, because it is a unique attack that uses chakra, I think he'd be able to see its movements, much like he saw Kyuubi-Naruto's movements.

So, the Sharingan is not really a Bloodline Limit, as anyone properly watching the seals can then copy a Ninjutsu or Genjutsu technique, no?

Kakashi was watching Haku, and the ability used in conjunction with his Bloodline Limit was unable to be copied, the Demon Ice Mirrors.

Due to that I believe even the abilities "used in conjunction," that you don't classify as Bloodline techniques, cannot be copied or read as easily as regular jutsu.

Also, the technique only uses chakra as it connects with the desired point, as it isn't something required to gather, it is merely released from the pores.

Originally posted by: XanBcoo
It's also good to have you back in this thread. Not much argument going on before you came back.

Many thanks. Work and City of Villains though, is where I've been. Damn game has me hooked to an IV.

Also, your post in response to Kitsu's is somewhat addressed in points above. No need to reiterate, unless you make me .. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
They wouldnt put a jackass as a Jounin. Why would Gai pull out something ridiculous as "it cut through lightning" (by the way, all the "idiotic" remarks are usually accompanied by the nice guy pose or some stance, which wasnt the case in this remark).

Last I checked, most of the rank tests are based on skill, not personality traits or a lack thereof. If this were the case, I'm doubting Hayate with his disease or Orochimaru would have been promoted.

Why? Because the story has been exaggerated to increase Kakashi's hype and fame. It is a story.

As for the idiotic remarks, it was quite stupid of Gai to have not noticed the suspicious gourd, and there was no pose or twinkling teeth thereafter.

Originally posted by: darkmetal505
your lack of weenie amuses me

And, I shall call him .. Sai.

[Jadugar]

FOR STRIDERS EYES ONLY

@ Strider :

<u>NOTE : All the quotes I used are yours.</u>

Seems this thread's direction twists every time someone intelligently votes for Neji. So, now the question is who would survive? As opposed to the question from twenty pages ago?

I think you missed the first page and it was updated a long time ago for the new users and to tell them to stay away from one-liner and to show them the updated score board. Surviving/winning doesnt really effect the current discussion.

So, Chidori is supposed to cut through lightning? Wow. Yes, I am still laughing. Sorry.I am guessing you have never heard of folklore, or those stories that get passed down. And, of course as the recipient of the story decides to retell it, something new is always going to be added.

Its my turn to laugh.

Folklore? Myths?

I think they are passed down by generations. Gai and Kakashi are in the same generation.

Close to five hundred replies, with only a near hundred views?

I think thats a new feature.


<u>Whats all this you and your minions not believing Gai?</u>

This is the same Jounin who trained Neji. Maybe we shouldnt be taking Neji seriously as well. Gai is one of respected Jounin there is. Not believing whats he says about his rival Kakashi is absurd. He would know his rival capabilities than anyone else.

And some one who doesnt believe that Chidori cant break through lightening shouldnt been quoting what he saw in BLEACH where people can block bankai with their bare hands.

I still do not believe Sasuke would see Neji's Rokujuu Yonshou. It is a Bloodline Ability. This cannot be read or traced by the Sharingan. I don't care how people broke it down in previous posts, it's a Bloodline Ability. If it were simply precise placement of chakra, anyone with chakra could have replicated it. Kakashi was watching Neji's match. Hyuuga heirs have had other teachers. If it were as simple as previous posters' breakdown, it would not be a sole technique to Konoha's noble family.

OMG

Get a grip Strider. Denial is not the way. Do you know what comes after denial? Acceptance.

You denying facts do not mean that they arent true.

How many times to we have to explain Neji's every move.

I havent broken down this technique so here it is. Listen!


<u>Hakke Rokujuyon Sho (Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms)</u>

The whole point of using this technique is to close opponent's "tenketsu". Not everyone is able to "see" those tenketus. Thats where Neji's Byakugan comes in handy. The move itself is NOT a Blood line limit, it is executed in conjunction with Byakugan. Also this move requires precise placement of chakra. As you said its simply precise placement of chakra but you need to know where to put it. Its like having a loaded gun but dont know where the target is. Byakugan is essential for the execution of this jutsu.

This should clear up things.

As for your argument of Sasuke not seeing this move becomes invalid.

Hyuga clan has been practicing their taijutsu style, Juken (Gentle Fist) for generations thats why they are the best and are one of the noble families but nobody other than Hyuga clan can COPY this move because they dont have the basic necessary tool, Byakugan, to begin with.

The move itself is taijutsu. So Sasuke CAN break it down.

Sasuke penetrates Kaiten, which projects from Neji at about two to three meters, with his uber Chidori. Unable to reach, his arm is now lodged within this rotating dome of fairly solid energy. It is only a moment before Sasuke is also caught within the momentum of the vortex, and consequently flung away.

Ahhh. Hakkeshou Kaiten.

I can almost forgive all of you for thinking thats a Bloodline limit as well.
Well you are WRONG. All of Neji's moves are combined with his extra special ability to control and placement of chakra. Only Hyuga clan has mastered this technique. I will say this again Byakugan aids them greatly in executing nearly all their moves.

What is Kaiten?

Its an advanced taijutsu passed down the Hyuga clan. Neji mastered this technique on his own despite not being in the main family.

How does it work?

Neji spinning around aimlessly in his "dancing red shoes".

It uses a solid amount of chakra expelled from the Whole body - as opposed to precise bursts from only specific parts of the body creating a bubble like vortex around him. It pushes outward with the same force as the outward attacks.

I would say its a waste of chakra compare to Chidori which concentrate gathering all of the chakra at a single point.

Now would you say Neji has more chakra than Sasuke or vice versa?

For the argument sake, lets say, Neji chakra = Sasuke chakra.

So lets play along with your scenario. Sasuke heading towards Neji with his Chidori while he is doing Kaiten.


Now Sasuke has gathered all his chakra in his hand and he pierces Kaiten at one point - that point has less chakra because Neji has divided his whole chakra around him to create a vortex/ bubble. So the spot where Sasuke touches with his Chidori will create a hole and will go through his Kaiten bringing his Kaiten to a halt and causing serious damage to Neji. Now image if Cursed seal gave Sasuke and his Chidori more chakra than Neji what will happen to the Hyuga genius. A can think of only one thing. An unavoidable death. R.I.P.

I hear those giggles have stopped.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Haha Smallville. Sorry Jad you completely cancelled out all your logical statements in this thread saying something like that.

You fool. How dare you call me a Samllville fan?

I am the last son of Kryptonia and I will rule you all mortals. I am god among men (read fags if you voted for Neji). Not even "Azazel" can save you from my anger.

I am more of a LOST fan than Smallville. Then comes 24.

Now I am off to see more of Smallville. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Jadugar]

Sorry about the double post..............

@ NineSomething :

Reading back in this topic, I didn't believe that I needed to state any 'evidence' of my opinion ...

That tends to happen when you are biased.

In a galaxy far away, nearly 5 months ago two people ( Strider + Jadugar ) disagreed as to who would win in a fight between Neji and Sasuke. So we decided to make a thread and ask other people for their opinion. That was the only solution left.

Would you care to look at the updated score?

The constant opinion as to why Sasuke would beat Neji is due to Seal lvl 2 and "increase in speed and power", when few of you Sasuke-voters seem to be neglecting the fact that Neji has already defeated a person much more skilled in the use of his Seal and who also was utilizing a style that made heavy plays upon Neji's weakness against Long-Range combat. Sasuke, on the other hand isn't used to his Seal and has a style that puts him into this situation: Puddy in Neji's hands.

Comapring Kidimaru to Sasuke is an insult. Even fat Chouji beat someone who had a cursed seal. You know what, Sasuke fought against Naruto and Gara. The two most powerful characters in Naruto, not to mention they both had demons inside them.

Believe me, It's humanly possible. It's an old habit I picked up from Roleplaying boards, where you needed to read every post prior so that you didn't post something random that fucked up the plot.

Someone who has claims to have read the whole thread should have the better knowledge of the both opponents moves. Demon seal? Dragon Flame? Its not Dungens and Dragons.

Also there is a difference between reading and understanding. Dont you think.

You claim that people underestimate Chidori, when it is you who infact underestimates Kaiten. Let's say Sasuke uses Dragon Flame, which Neji counters with Kaiten. To put this into proper understanding, you can try this at home: Take a ball of paper, douse the top of it in a flammable substance and set fire to it. Now, throw this ball of flaming paper into winds of up to 75mph, and watch what happens.

You and your stupid experiments. So a ball of paper is supposed to be a Katon. You dont know what is the temperature of that fire. It pretty much melted rocks the last time he used it and it was the size of a big stadium. I think that good enough to stop someones producing wind at 75 mph. Also 20% of that wind is Oxygen which is perfect for Nejis BBQ.

and once he gets close enough, It's simply over.

Oh I forgot about his bad breath. This is the secret move that only Neji fans know.

As for your big claims of Neji moves, read my above post.

[ST_11]

Sasuke will win because he has the advantange of predicting Neji's moves. Of course if he uses the power behind the tattoos (can't rememebr the name) he will lose.

[NineTailsKitsu]

That tends to happen when you are biased.

Now the pots calling the kettle black. This thread is based on bias, for one or the other, whether you admit it or not. Reading and understanding are differen't, right?

Lol.

Go watch smallville, it fits you.

[The Heretic Azazel]

And face your mortal enemy Lex LEWTHOR!!!

[masamuneehs]

I can't believe people are still discussing this so much. a 23 page thread? I know this would be a great match-up, but all of our speculations, comparisons and arguing really isn't going to change anything. Yes, it is fun to argue sometimes, but getting so serious about it is sort of silly.

I'd imagine that if there ever was a one-on-one between these two Sasuke would win just because it'd be weird for a guy like Neji to do something as important as beating Sasuke. Neji is cool and badass, but he's a 'secondary' character. It'll be interesting to see where these two are after the time-jump (no, i don't read the manga).

[xDarkMaster]

I agree with masamuneehs. While interesting, how can a fight over FICTIONAL characters become so heated? I mean, if Kishimoto wanted to he could make Neji or Sasuke god and have them make the universe implode. The fact is we don't know any specifics about the moves or anything. No point in getting worked about about mere speculation.

[XanBcoo]

It's all in good fun, boyos.

[GreenBeast]

Sasuke all the way. Neji has no chance

[drims]

I vote for Sauke
even though Neji is so much cooler and not a sell out.

Reason... Sasuke has been training with Oro he must be uber, and his training has to have been of better quality over what Neji has done; so Sauce man must be far ahead of him

[Jadugar]

........................VS...................



UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 33
[ Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, AssertnFailure,Nests, XanBcoo,coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein, masamuneehs, Aramis, KoKo37,God#2, Strifexgx, Sapphire, Ero-Fan, Deadfire, aznroyale, MASTA-OF-DISASTA, sevyfez, anphorus, miss190, ST_11, xDarkMaster, GreenBeast, drims ]

NEJI : 23
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil, UltxDarkRedXl, isso, Necromas, darkshadow, NineTailKitsu, dug88 ]

[Inazuma]

Neji

Because, he is the man.
Sasuke is just chasing after he's bro back

[Zidarri the Exile]

I'd say Neji, because of the Byakuugan. His abilities are amazing. Sasuke, even with all his Level 2 Speed, he still wouldn't be able to get close to Neji, with his . . . Gah, I forgot it's name. The whirl of chakra, his Ultimate Defense.

Not only that, but if Neji, in his current state in the manga, is probably a lot better at his Tai-jutsu, and could hit Sasuke's tenketsu.

And, Sasuke is a huge whiner, and I want to see him die.


My vote is for Hyuuga Neji

[darkmetal505]

I'd say Neji, because of the Byakuugan. His abilities are amazing. Sasuke, even with all his Level 2 Speed, he still wouldn't be able to get close to Neji, with his . . . Gah, I forgot it's name. The whirl of chakra, his Ultimate Defense.

Not only that, but if Neji, in his current state in the manga, is probably a lot better at his Tai-jutsu, and could hit Sasuke's tenketsu.

And, Sasuke is a huge whiner, and I want to see him die.


My vote is for Hyuuga Neji

not with his speed, but with the sharingan (he kept up with kyubbi naruto with three pupils).

Neji's ultimate defense is called Kaiten (divine whirlwind), and I think we are doing pre time jump Neji.

[Zidarri the Exile]

His Sharingan would be troublesome, but Neji has the Byakuugan, and can see 358degrees around him. Sasuke wouldn't have a chance to get close to him.

Sharingan vs Byakuugan is a bad match up for the Sharingan, because all of Neji's abilities are from his Blood-Line, and so Sasuke wouldn't be able to copy them, or read them that well.

[XanBcoo]

I disagree completely. This is how I see it:

To my knowledge, people are citing the fight with Haku as evidence for the "Sharingan can't copy bloodline limit attacks". This is because Haku, who's bloodline limit seems to be the ability to control ice (?), uses a technique utilizing only this. The attack is unique in that it doesn't follow the normal rules for a jutsu - making use of the bloodline technique. So, Kakashi is unable to see through it with the Sharingan.

Jyuuken, however, is its own style of fighting. One does not need the Byakugan to use it. The Byakugan only allows the user to see ~360 degrees, and the inner coils system. Jyuuken is otherwise completely unrelated to the Byakugan because it is merely a way of controlling and attacking with chakra. Only the Hyuuga use Jyuuken proficiently because they have the Byakugan to see the chakra system, but nothing else about the fighting style is unique to the Hyuuga.

[Carnage]

ok, its been a while since Ive been to this thread. Here's all I have to say:

Sasuke has atleast Rock Lee's speed so he beats Neji in that department.
Sasuke has the three pupil sharingan and can predict movent.
Sasuke's uber fire ball > nejis fingers
Sasuke's chidori can break Kaiten for if someone has enough chakra they can break through the defense. (I.E. Naruto using a bit of Kyuubi's chakra tied with Kaiten)
Sasuke has Cursed Seal 1 and 2
Sasuke is main character #2

Overall, I think Sasuke can take Neji on even without his cursed seal. Neji cant use Kaiten forever. And its not undefeatable. For all of you who HONESTLY think Neji can beat Sasuke, your idiots. He's the second main character. Im pretty sure he can beat pretty much any other genin. Hell, even Chunin.