Sasuke VS Neji

[Carnage]

Sasuke. End of Discussion.

[Strider]

Originally posted by: KoKo37
Well Sasuke's just gay, so Neji is like x10 better on the coolness side. But after like two and a half years of training with Oro and with the cursed seal and sharigan it would just overpower Neji. So in a battle I suppose my vote goes for Sasuke >.>

We weren't considering anything after the time-jump, as like most of Assertn's arguments, it lacks hard evidence. (Just felt like throwing that in there, as I saw someone say that in a previous thread)

But, talk about digging up a post to dig me out of a grave.

Sasuke would over power Neji. Hands down. However, Neji would kill Sasuke in the same moment.

[Uchiha Barles]

I don't understand why people are still saying things like that? Mut@t@ has several points with well thought out arguments all of which are still valid. I'll quote them because there's no point in rephrasing.

Originally posted by: Mut@chi
Oops, I double posted.

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
Naruto didn't survive the 64 palms because he has a huge amount of chakra, he got through it because he has two chakra flows and only one was cut off. As far as we can see Sasuke, while clearly also having a great amount, only has one flow, and there's no evidence anyone without two flows can take the 64 palms.

No, you're wrong. Chakra can only work one way, and it flows through the tenketsu only. There is no other way of chakra being released for Naruto. He jus has two sources for chakra; one as his own and the other one is kyuubi, obviously. His tenketsu were clearly shut off by Neji, but he used the demon fox chakra to overpower hakke's effects.

Originally posted by: vasco
Sasuke does not have 2nd chakra, and it time to recovery

It doesn't matter if you have a second chakra or not, chakra can be released only one way and that's through your tenketsu. Naruto used his kyuubi chakra to just overpower the effects of hakke. If Naruto can reverse it with just tons of chakra, why can't Sasuke? And I don't even know what your second sentence is saying.

64 hit is a linked attack, there is no room you can counter-attack once you got hit (escape you said he dodge all)

That's perfectly fine, Sasuke shouldn't even be hit by the initial hit in the first place with his sharingan.

It is because the spider thing is sticky... it cause Neji cannot split, but Sasuke has nothing to stick with Kaiten.

Clearly, the main reason why he wasn't able to spin was because of the sticky spider web, but my point was that since some spiders were able to penetrate the defense and stick webs on him, there's no reason why Sasuke can't do the same considering he uses the sharingan.

Ok, Sasuke is smart, but he is not Sakura. I don't think he can do such kind of calculation (Proven from writing exam - Sasuke "I don't understand, not even one question")

What the hell are you talking about? You completely missed my point. I wasn't talking about anything that involves intelligence. I was strictly referring to the fact that Sasuke's sharingan is so advanced (than before), he should see Neji's spinning kaiten as just normal movement. That would negate the fast spin velocity which would give Sasuke plenty of openings.

Well, Naruto is Ninja Technique, but Neji is Close Combat type, who know who is faster?

Naruto uses taijutsu pretty much as much as ninjutsu, and that isn't even relevant to what we're talking about. Neji doesn't focus on speed to use as his advantage; that's Lee. Neji's fighting style is structured from using finese techniques to immbolize his opponents and ultimately leaving them out of chakra (aka dead). Neji has never been known for his speed, while people like Naruto and Lee have.

That make a lot different

No, it doesn't really make that much of a difference against a sharingan user. Neji's advantage with the byakugan only lasts until Sasuke uses his sharingan to compensate for Neji's near-perfect vision. It doesn't matter if Neji can see everything around him, once he reacts to Sasuke's attack, Sasuke can pretty much just move out of the way because of the abilities of sharingan.

Again, Neji is close combat type, and he is fast as well... Remember Neji win Lee (Lee has super fast speed)

Neji would win every fight against a dumbass like Lee because without opening gates, Lee is a practice dummy against a natural genius like Neji. And Gai has always forbid Lee from opening the gates. We know this since Neji was surprised during Lee's fight against Gaara.

Everybody, just stop. You can't beat me.

Without the cursed seal, neiji and sasuke are almost evenly matched, even though I'd give the edge to neji because his byakugan in more useful in more situations than the Sharingan combat abilities. If someone calls me on that claim, I'll explain. However, if you add the power of the cursed seal to sasuke, his strenght is increased tremendously. Even the level seal would now give sasuke the advantage in my opinion. My reasoning is clear is simple. I believe the things mut@t@ said, but I feel that it puts the sasuke on par with neiji, not that it makes him superior. The level 1 cursed seal however seems to increase the abilities sasuke already posseses by increasing his speed and strenght. This should give Sasuke the edge. Now, although we haven't really seen too much of it, it stands to reason that the second level cursed seal should increase sasuke's power tremendously (black lightning chidori), and even give him new abilities, one of which is flying, another is blocking powerful attacks with those hands popping out of his back. We've seen this at the end of his fight with naruto. Furthurmore, based on how this and many other anime's work, the impression given by the characters is usually the correct one. Sasuke came across as much more powerful than most of the genin we've seen, including neiji. So most likely, it is true based on the precedence set by this series. I fail to see where all this disagreement is coming in.

[darkmetal505]

Originally posted by: Strider


Sasuke would over power Neji. Hands down. However, Neji would kill Sasuke in the same moment.

How, by saying it is his destiny to win and then having a pity party?

[The Heretic Azazel]

No, because he only needs one strike to slow Sasuke down and not many to immobilize him. You'd know that if you were paying any attention.

[Uchiha Barles]

The first strike will most likely fail, as was already pointed out, because of the abilities of the sharingan. It will detect neiji's counter attack and allow Sasuke to avoid it. Sharingan has to be the ultimate close combat advantage if unobstructed.

[Strifexgx]

Alright, ill start by giving the disclaimer that i may not remember all the names of the techniques (and ignore all spelling)

Both would start by activating their Doujutsus, Sharingan and Byakugan
Sauske would make the first move since hes pretty much always been that arrogant, prolly rush in with is unweighted Lee speed attempting a lion combo, Neji could easily dodge and counter, leading into his 64 palm attack, Sauske still with his Lee speed and his full sharingan could most likely dodge such an attack. Sauske would jump away to gain time and in battle banter would occur (like an all battles)
Knowing now that he cant get close, Sasuke uses his kanton and shurikan technigues from a distance, all to be countered by Kaiten. Sasuke seeing the opertunity rushes with Chidori. Chidori punches a small hole through the kaiten but since the chakra is still spinning Sasuke gets caught up in it and thrown back. Neji goes into his 128 palm and attacks sasuke, Sasuke attempts to dodge them all but due to failing stamina has to block some. Once done both jump away again.
Notciing the injuries from the block and some chakra points closed, Seal lvl 1 activates. Neji moves in for the attack, Sasuke attempts a counter attack only to be hit a few times and knocked away. Sasuke due to arrogance and desperation activates a second Chidori and rushes, Neji throws up kaiten again, CS1 sasuke's chidori again breaks through but not enough to disapate Kaiten and is once again thrown back.
Cursed Seal lvl 2 now becomes active. Sasuke rushes at an accerated pace catching neji before he can start his kiaten, pinning him against the wall. Sasuke readies the negative color chidori, Neji forces all his chakra to the point of impact but it isnt enough for the CS2 chidori and sasuke's hand goes through nejis chest into the wall behind him. Sasuke reverts to normal and goes to find medical help before the internal injuries from blocking Neji's attacks worsen.
Victory: Uchiha Sasuke

Im not a Sasuke fan boy, (he was actually pissing me off til i think he redeemed himself during his and Naruto's fight, by acknowledging Naruto and by vowing to find power in his own way.) But with the Cursed Seal lvl 2 that he has i just dont think Neji can overcome that. (I mean it did beat naruto's upped kyuubi form, while naruto's weak (stage 0.5 kyuubi i guess you could call it, beat neji). Though i dont think its a fair fight with the crused seal, without the seal Neji would win hands down. But that seal gives sasuke the definate edge.

[Uchiha Barles]

I agree with you on two points here. The first one, is that the scenario you described is unfortunately a very possible one despite the fact that it doesn't make sense. Either kishimoto or the animation team sometimes pull things out of their asses and chose to ignore certain precedences. Secondly, yes, Sasuke would win.

However, if what we've seen is remains consistent in the fights to come, your analysis is wrong. You are forgetting what the sharingan does. Neiji would most likely NOT be able to dodge Sasuke's first attack. Their speeds should be similar, and the Sharingan lets Sasuke predict neiji's next move, and as he did to Naruto, he can use that prediction to guide and time his attacks so that there's not a damn thing neiji could do about it. This even works against higher level ninja, as kakashi did to zabuza nearing the end of their fight (Zabuza: "Why can I not keep up with him?" Uchiha Barles: "Because he's using the sharingan.") Secondly, neiji would get no taijutsu attacks off on Sasuke, again, because of the Sharingan. I'll repeat, the Sharingan lets Sasuke predict neiji's next move, so Sasuke can also time his own movements to avoid neiji's attacks.

For neiji to stand a chance, he needs to do at least one of the things I'm going to list.

1) Become so much faster than Sasuke, that Sasuke cannot keep up with the predicted images. If he can do that, much like Rock Lee said, it doesn't matter if he can see the attacks coming or not.

2) Stop Sasuke's sharingan from activating. This would require him to attack Sasuke's tenketsus before Sasuke has a chance to activate the Sharingan. He can also stop the sharangan after it is activated, but to do that, he would need to use a combination of the next two things I'm going to mention.

3) Use the environment and ninjutsu, not genjutsu, to obstruct the vision of Sasuke's Sharingan. We saw the effectiveness of this in the Zabuza fight when Zabuza summoned the mist to prevent kakashi from seeing him with the sharingan. Zabusa used the sound of kakashi's movements to detect him. Neiju could just use the penetrating feature of his Byakugan to detect Sasuke.

4) If you cannot hide yourself from the sharingan using jutsu or the environment, at least hide your attacks using either the environment or supportive jutsus. We saw the effectiveness of this when Naruto used the water and the ground to hide his projected Red Chakra until it was so close to Sasuke that Sasuke could not dodge the attack. He used water and the ground as the concealing tools for the attacks. Before Naruto thought to do that, Sasuke avoided every attack.

I cannot think of another way to avoid the combat abilities of the sharingan. Of these options, I think only the last 2 I mentioned are viable ones for neiji.

Edit: Oh, anyone notice how the byakugan is ideally suited for long range combat? Really, the Hyuuga should rethink their combat strategies and include strong training in long range.

[darkmetal505]

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel
No, because he only needs one strike to slow Sasuke down and not many to immobilize him. You'd know that if you were paying any attention.

oh yea i was, but thats not true. This thread implies that sasuke can use curse seal lvl 2.

I found a decent AMV of neji:

Byakugan at its Limits! Neji's Raging Battles

[Assertn]

Originally posted by: Strifexgx
Neji could easily dodge and counter, leading into his 64 palm attack

You mean like how orochimaru easily dodged one-tail naruto's frontal assault?
This is simply wrong.

Apparently I'm the only one that considered the last chapter as evidence of just how much power was involved in the sasuke vs naruto fight. Neji vs Sasuke would be like that first sasuke vs lee fight. He'll see it coming, but have no chance to react.

[Necromas]

My vote goes to Neji.

Kaiten + Jyuuken + Genius + Byakugan > Sharingan + Seal

[Jadugar]

Originally posted by: Necromas
My vote goes to Neji.

Kaiten + Jyuuken + Genius + Byakugan > Sharingan + Seal

You didnt mention Gokakyu no Jutsu
or
Chidori.

You do know that we are talking about Sasuke,..............UCHIHA SASUKE [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]



Three new votes

God#2, Strifexgx, Necromas,

P.S... Strifexgx reminds me of Vasco


........................VS...................


UPDATED SCORE

SASUKE : 21
[ Assertn, Barles, SFreedomZGMFx20a, chet_chetty, Mut@chi, Nests, XanBcoo, coud656, Phoenix20578, Shuurai, 6Zabuza9, Chaoskiddo, darkmetal505, Edort4, Ban Kai, Zein, masamuneehs, Aramis, KoKo37,God#2, Strifexgx ]

NEJI : 20
[DrCitan, Heero, Terra, Dark Maginn, Mite Gai, Turkish-S, Naruto_RNG, Dezalanel, Vasco, Heretic-Azazel, Shinda, Jurojin, Y, Kensee, elmojo, Tinks, iMUSTbeTHEdevil, UltxDarkRedXl, isso, Necromas ]

[XanBcoo]

I'm suprised that anyone can think Neji can stand up to Level 2 CS Sasuke. I've already voted and argued this to death though, so I'll say that Uchiha Barles made some very very good points...

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
You mean like how orochimaru easily dodged one-tail naruto's frontal assault?

and although I agree with you, when exactly did this happen, Assertn? I can't for the life of me think when Orochimaru has gone face-to-face with One-tail (Kyuubi level 2) Naruto.

Originally posted by: Jadugar
P.S... Strifexgx reminds me of Vasco

I thought the same thing. What with the simulation and all. His was just lacking the spriders and throwing knife.

[Assertn]

Have you read chapter 291 yet, XanBcoo?

[Uchiha Barles]

The points that were made in this thread have been made throughout, yet not once, not even once, did someone post a valid counter point to the points made for why Sasuke would win. They just keep ignoring them.

[Sapphire]

Sasuke would win.. just because of Orochimaru's seals Neji has no chance

[Strifexgx]

Yeah in my scenario i went with a few assumptions. Some of which could be wrong (its been a long time since i went through all the battles.
1) Neji has Lee in his team and has fought with him many times and won, so i figured Neji would be able to keep up at least at some lvl with his speed.
2) Sasuke is also new at using the full sharingan so i figured he could see the moves and all but not do any of the genjutsu parts yet, only since we havent seen him do any yet. i dont think he knows how to influnce others moves yet with it.

But like i said i could be wrong with these since i havent watch the back episodes in a while (got into bleach lately since Naruto went into endless fillers). But in the end i think the result will always be the same, the lvl 2 Cursed Seal just completely out powers neji.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
The points that were made in this thread have been made throughout, yet not once, not even once, did someone post a valid counter point to the points made for why Sasuke would win. They just keep ignoring them.

There are 19 pages in this topic and half of the people involved voted for Neji. Just because you stick to your opinion doesn't mean it's elite and everyone else should follow it. There are plenty of good points for why Neji would win just like there are plenty for why Sasuke should win. But don't discredit points just because they don't conform to your opinion.

[XanBcoo]

Originally posted by: AssertnFailure
Have you read chapter 291 yet, XanBcoo?

I haven't read the manga past the Kakashi Gaiden, but I don't mind a few minor spoilers here and there. Apparently the friend I asked (who reads the manga) if Oro had fought Naruto yet hasn't read chapter 291 either.

So yeah, if you're saying that even Orochimaru had trouble facing One-tail Naruto, then Neji would stand no chance. I don't see what's so hard about understanding that Naruto and Sasuke, with the Kyuubi and CS activated, are leagues more powerful than the other students.

[Uchiha Barles]

Originally posted by: The Heretic Azazel

Originally posted by: Uchiha Barles
The points that were made in this thread have been made throughout, yet not once, not even once, did someone post a valid counter point to the points made for why Sasuke would win. They just keep ignoring them.

There are 19 pages in this topic and half of the people involved voted for Neji. Just because you stick to your opinion doesn't mean it's elite and everyone else should follow it. There are plenty of good points for why Neji would win just like there are plenty for why Sasuke should win. But don't discredit points just because they don't conform to your opinion.

When you're holding an argument, you make certain assertions and you back them up with logic and evidence. For someone to argue with you for a conflicting viewpoint, they have invalidate or increase doubt in the assertions you've set forth, while setting forth and validating their own viewpoints using logic evidence. The argument can continue back and forth until one side can no longer validate his assertions or invalidate those of his opponents. By ignoring points made, the discussion goes in circles. You know what? I'd even take "Neiji would win, because I like neiji better. So there." It lets me know who to argue with and who not to. But after posts like the one I quoted earlier, to get responses like "Neiji would win because he's simply better" which do nothing at all to invalidate the points already made, or even give some validation to the point they're trying to make, well...its just bad. It doesn't help the discussion whatsoever. I'm not so stubborn that if someone points out something I didn't consider that changes my opinion, I won't listen. Unless I have a particular bias. In this case, I do not. You don't want to follow my opinion? Go ahead and don't. I use the "This thing is better just cuz I like it better" argument all the time. But I also add this "so there's no point at all in you trying to convince me otherwise." That way, no one wastes their efforts in participating in something that should have been a decent argument, but only leaves them feeling unfulfilled or like they've wasted their time.