Fukuda Rants & Rave

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
And you think this isn't a problem why?

I forgot that arguing this point with you is like like bashing my head into a brick wall. It get's nowhere and just ends up giving me brain trauma. You're not going to let go of your Kira plushie and your "Fukada pwns j00" poster, and I'm not going to change my opinion that Kira should have kicked the bucket, for good reason, when he faced off with Shinn.

By not killing A main character (it could very well have been Athrun and Meyrin that could/should have died), this makes the series absolutly no different than the previous incarnations of Gundam. Which is very sad from any perspective.

First off Shinn is widely HATED by the fanbase. For him to kill the most popular character of both series. It would cause the absolute death of Gundam Seed francise. I don't like Fukada at all for your information. I loved Seed I found it to be a fresh and insteresting take on the Gundam line despite what it reused the series still felt fresh. Gundam Seed Destiny has on the other hand been terrible from start until now constantly going down hill. I don't feel that Fukada shouldn't have taken some drastic steps but killing a character like Kira is certainly not the way to do it.

Frankly there are a lot of characters from Gundam Seed that in Destiny could have been killed allowing for a twist and a increase in popularity to the series given a proper death. Where as making a whiney bitch like Shinn out to be the most powerful quardinator out there by having him kill Kira. If anything at 18 Kira is better then he was in Seed even if he hasn't touched a MS for the last 3 years he still has far greater experiance then anyone could learn in times of peace on a simulator. Also no matter what battles Shinn has gone through it wouldn't make him able to surpase the "ultimate coordinator" after only a couple of weeks or months.

Athrun and Calgari have both been reset as if this was a alternate universe and magically we were at the begining of Seed all over again. Either one of them would have been a much more realistic person to kill off in place of Kira who essentially if beat would make Shinn the strongest warrior in the entire Seed univers. I didn't care for him winning in any way in 34 after going out of there way to tell us he was a complete underdog stating that anyone using freedom would have a advantage due to the suit but Kira was virtually uncermountable. This goes along with the Fliers being launched and linking up with Impulse with absolutely ZERO delay. This made the fight a worthless plot device and nothing more. Killing ANY main character or even a sub one like Yzak or Deakka in a battle like that would be completely worthless.

To me the issue with this series not being new is that there has been no new group of any kind introduced. Perhaps having the junkers from the Astray series involved in the war or anything along those lines instead of setting up the same EXACT sides as we had in the last war. What makes it even worse is they brought back Mwu as Neo and had him fighting another clone aka Rey. Whats the point in having the series start over and do the same thing all over again.

This basically leaves that the entire problem hinges on that they started with Shinn and tried to make him Kira. This made Kira unable to be develope as he had nowhere to go. This made Athrun, Calgari, (Neo/Mwu), yzak, Deakka, Rey(Raul) and the Chairman(rauls other side) all to also develope in exactly the same way. Your issue with the shouldn't be why didn't they kill Kira. In fact it should be more like why wasn't there a group of individuals that are members of faith working in the background to uncover the truth as there suppose to be independant in the first place. Heck why even have faith if all it meant was that Athrun was left be the chairmans bitch all over again.

Every single aspect of the story which could have brought life to GSD was ignored and in the end all we have is Gundam Seed all over again this time with more models. I'm sorry if you have issues with the concept that someone doesn't have to be a fanboy to disagree with you. The fact remains that your head is simply to far up your arse for you to even imagine that perhaps they should have started the story in a completely differn't way where each character could grow OR each character could simply show up to do what they do in the first place. I'm sure even you would have been ok with a group working behind the scenes and perhaps having Kira and Lacus end up hiding them for a time where Kira might actually train the newbies in some way and then having him show up as a Allie in the final battle. As opposed to having Kira and Lacus as the driving force to the war where Kira is set up as once again the only roadblock that is preventing the annihilation of the human race.

[Jurojin]

Mark Twain said:

Don't try to treach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

DDBen said:

Oink oink.

*sigh* Look, I agree with -most- of what you're saying in the many different ways they could have started off the series, and pulling a Dallas with Mwu/Neo was one of the worst things they could have done.

That being said, you're an idiot if you can't let go of the preconception that killing off a main character from SEED(Kira/Athrun/Cagalli/Lacus, take your pick) would "kill the Gundam Seed franchise." Pure and simple. G. Gundam was where it was supposed to be fantasy/mecha, so almost nobody dies unless it's thematical, and even then they find ways of coming back (DG cells anyone?). Gundam Seed is *supposed* to be a Drama/mecha anime. To keep playing it safe, and not kill off main characters, (or even more sickening, bring them back from a positron cannon blast) takes away the emotion and drama from a series that's supposed to focus on emotion and drama.

In Seed, we had Fllay's father die- tragic, and it drove her off the deep end. Tolle dies a *senseless* death, and drives Kira into a rage. Cagalli's father blows himself up to prevent the EAF from getting a hold of the Mass Driver, and Cagalli matures into a more solid character, not just crying all the time.

Best example: Nicol dies. Was he not a main character in the begining of Seed? And what lasting effects that made the middle of SEED as good as it was came from those fights, where friends of Athrun and Kira died at the other's hands?

Death is pivotal in war dramas. In GSD, there have been many chances to kill off important characters that would have had lasting effects on all of the episodes from the begining to the end. Did they explore them? Hardly.


But as for the KiraxShinn debate, you mimic every single voice of Kira fans out there. Constantly. So either accept your fandom, or admit to the fact that Kira is not God and can be beaten by Shinn. Otherwise, well, you're just proving the point.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
That being said, you're an idiot if you can't let go of the preconception that killing off a main character from SEED(Kira/Athrun/Cagalli/Lacus, take your pick) would "kill the Gundam Seed franchise." Pure and simple. G. Gundam was where it was supposed to be fantasy/mecha, so almost nobody dies unless it's thematical, and even then they find ways of coming back (DG cells anyone?). Gundam Seed is *supposed* to be a Drama/mecha anime. To keep playing it safe, and not kill off main characters, (or even more sickening, bring them back from a positron cannon blast) takes away the emotion and drama from a series that's supposed to focus on emotion and drama.

First off I didn't say Killing a main character would kill the series. I support killing Athrun, Cagalli or Lacus. Basically because none of these people are set up as the best MS pilot in existance. If Shinn killed Kira that would result in unbalancing the GS world in general. You take out the #1 Pilot on episode 34 now what do you have left to do in the series. Shinn is already with Zaft who is winning the war. Athrun is not as good a pilot as Kira(note he is exceptional but he's never managed to beat Kira in any of there fights). Now given Killing any of the other 3 besides Kira gives him a excellent reason to get truely involved in the conflict and a reason to hate Shinn. Killing Kira makes Shinn a unsurpassable God in GS and the only way to make it remotely even is either numbers or having Rey suddenly turn in Raul.

Also note that at this point my choice for who to kill off to have furthered the plot would be Calgari. She's been useless for the ENTIRE series. However by having Shinn Kill her off in the defence of Orb you give Kira and Athrun true motivation having lost a sister and a fiance(well if she still is). This also leaves room for Meyrin to replace her and gives Lunamaria a reason to turn her back on Shinn if not also leaving her dead for trying to betray her letting Shinn's last shred of sanity go away.

Note my reasoning for Kira having to survive until atleast the end of the series are that he's clearly the fan favorite in every single poll I've seen and that in the end he's the #1 threat in a mobile suit. Letting Kira live through Freedoms destruction I do agree was stupid but then again I feel freedom should have survived and been retrofitted with the upgrades making it Strike Freedom or it should have been a hand me down upon the completion of Strike Freedom. I also happen to stick to the fact making impulse have unlimited replacement parts just hurts my head its so pointless. Anyone could win if they were a exceptional pilot with as many cannon foddar suits as they needed. Given Destiny as a mech also seems to be a horrible version of impulse, as it gives up every advantage that impulse has (quick repair time, unlimited lives, the capacity to always have some sort of weapon, The ability to use multiple packs at once) and what does it gain lasers in its hand?

All of that being said knock off the pointless flaming PSJ it will get you nowhere and this is a thread for rants reguardless.

[Strike Freedom]

Well, I love these type of debates, both sides bring up valid points. Since there is no obvious right or wrong answer, I would say a compromise comes into effect.

Bottomline: this is all Fukuda's fault.
I blame him for everything that has gone wrong with this series.

I blame him for my cold right now.

I blame him as the reason that Terra is so hot-headed as he is.

I blame him for the fall of Rome.

I blame him for the rise of Hitler.

I blame him for all the nerds out there that can't get laid.

I blame him for Kira becoming as stale as bread.

Kira blames Fukuda for the way that Kira is, especially since he hasn't been able to hit that (in terms of Lacus).

Shinn blames Fukuda as the real reason his family is gone.

Masamuneehs blames him for all those nights that he gets wasted and for starting that alcohol thread.

Everyone blames him for the discord he has caused all of us. So if there is any compromise, it is that Fukuda is the ultimate villian, period![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

[Jurojin]

DDBen:

The fact remains that your head is simply to far up your arse

DDBen:

All of that being said knock off the pointless flaming PSJ it will get you nowhere and this is a thread for rants reguardless

2 things:

1) You started it. All I did was suggest (which you have not disproved, only attempted to sidestep it) to the point that you are a Kira fan. Perhaps the insult was the Fukada comment, but hey, considering how you seem to be agreeing with his logic (fanbase > plot credibility) it was warranted.

2) I am not PSJ, and he hasn't even posted in this thread :-/

Edit:


I could so see this happening-


Announcer: "On the next episode of Gundam Seed: Destiny Idol, what will the judges say about the remaining cast members?"

Paula: "I really think that Shinn, while all angsty and stuff, is a real contender to win. Kira seems to be a bit too 1D for this show, and really has no room to grow. We should do him a favor and let him move onto greener pastures."

Fukada: "Unfortunatly Paula, Shinn's not very well liked, while Kira has the highest fan base. But since you seem to like him a lot, I'll spare him the axe. Simon?"

Simon: "Well, I for one can't wait for Kira to be pasted on the mountain side. *booing in the crowd*. But I hear that Heine is becoming very popular, and might even surpass Kira in fandom."

Fukada: "We can't have the character I've set up to be God killed or surpassed. Hmmm. Well, looks like Heine's just going to have to go."

[Splash!]

Let me join this rant

FUKUDA IS A NO GOOD S.O.B!!!!
He ruined the bloody series. He is a wimp. I wish even now that some one kills him, a new director comes and changes the script to end the series in a good way (probably adding 3-4 episodes at the end toget some explanation done). But who am i kidding, nothing like that is ever going to happen.

In any case, despite all the screw ups i will still be willing to forgive him if kira dies, even at this stage. His purpose is served, he has gone through as much character development as fukuda could give him, he has accomplished more than enough, he needs to die.
Also , Shinn should die too if they kill of luna. If they don't, then i think he should live.

But who am i kidding, i cannot expect fukuda to make something of this series. the past has already shown what he is capable of

This is my theory of how Fukuda will end the story--->
Shinn will join Clyne Faction.
Rey will die at Shinns hands
Kira Athrun Mwu, Shinn, Luna, Lacus will not die
Kira will kill Gil, and Talia will also die.
Coordinators and naturals will finally get together and everyone will live happily ever after. The military will be disbanded and everyone will be unemployed. THE END

Lets see how much of this will happen

[masamuneehs]

Originally posted by: splash
Let me join this rant

This is my theory of how Fukuda will end the story--->
Shinn will join Clyne Faction.
Rey will die at Shinns hands
Kira Athrun Mwu, Shinn, Luna, Lacus will not die
Kira will kill Gil, and Talia will also die.
Coordinators and naturals will finally get together and everyone will live happily ever after. The military will be disbanded and everyone will be unemployed. THE END

Lets see how much of this will happen

Lol. I was thinking that EVERY ONE of those things will occur in the upcoming final episodes!

It is obvious that Shinn is having second thoughts about Dullindal, and you can tell he's going to leave soon because Rey hasn't been trying to support him and be a friend, like he was earlier on (helping Shinn escape with Stellar, standing up for him in front of Athrun)

Shinn will also take Lunamaria with him to the Clune Faction.

Shinn will kill Rey, it's the only way the final episode will have any kind of drama in it if Shinn is on the AA side.

Which makes me wonder if Shinn might have to stay with the Minerva, along with Lunamaria, just because it sets up an excellent 3 on 3 battle (Kira, Athrun, Mwu VS. Shinn, Rey, Lunamaria) and would be that much better than just everyone Vs. Rey... And if that's the case, I predict Rey and Lunamaria die, leaving Shinn so empty that he finally gives up (thus surviving himself)

Everyone will go unemployed. BUT because Fukuda seems to want to make a 3rd Series out of Seed, don't expect Lacus Faction or any competent good guys to have any part in the Peace Accord at the end of the Destiny War. Then we'll have the Blue Cosmos revived, resurrect Flay, Stellar and Heine to fuck with Kira's, Shinn's and Athrun's heads, a brand new Coordinator plot to control the universe, more attempts to sell model kits and more BS garbage.

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

the only way i can see fukuda regaining our love is if he upgrades the METEORs and make special cameos of gundams from the astray manga(like the red frame astray or the gold frame astray) in the final battle

[Gangrel]

Originally posted by: DDBen

If Shinn killed Kira that would result in unbalancing the GS world in general. You take out the #1 Pilot on episode 34 now what do you have left to do in the series. Shinn is already with Zaft who is winning the war. Athrun is not as good a pilot as Kira(note he is exceptional but he's never managed to beat Kira in any of there fights).
.

Ok, it seems ur fandom for Kira has surpassed reality and u need to rewatch Gundam Seed. After Ahtrun and Kira go seed mode one on another Athrun manages to grab Strike, too bad he didn't have power and do self-destruct and well I can't see how he survived inside Strike when Athrun got so messed up when he was running.

And maybe you wanna watch after Athrun get together with Kira and they go to space to stop war with Eternal, AA and others. Well, in most of the battles on space I just saw Athrun doing most of the job (he was the one fighting the drugies more than Kira), Kira almost getting owned some parts, Athrun saving Kira... Well, I don't see your argument working.

Your point can be the episode Freedom owns Saviour, but as you can see it was Seed mode x non-Seed mode, this gives one hell of advantage. And I think that was purely fandom, giving Kira lovers some lolipops for em to feel happy "Oh yeah our Kira kicked Athrun's ass! Woopie! Ill buy another Freedom toy!"

No, I am no Athrun fan. I just realized that in Seed Athrun is as good of a pilot as Kira. They just give more screen time to the main character and his gundam, which was Kira. And no, I don't think Kira is the main character of GSD.

[Marcis]

I will add my opinion about Fukuda.

Seems that GSD is very ... unfocused show.It goes along it's course and then after couple of episodes it starts to waver off course. This trend appeared after episode 15 i think. After that -EDITED- episode. It got very bad after episode 34 as Terra mentioned.
One or two good episodes and then show wanders away .. why? To collect info from online polls and fanboy opinions? Really, it seems that fan opinions dictate the course of show. The show's pace is jagged. Now we get half-recap episode about Meer who's real life picture seems to be low-res screenshot of Myung from Macross Plus. Does Originality muse left Fukuda's room completely??? Seems so.
We still don't get much info on Destiny plan and we have only 3 eps to go. Scripting seems very unfocused here, if they want to see how it can be possible to switch between old cast and new one i suggest they watch Zeta - perfectly done. No wonder second Zeta movie tickets are sold out already.
This show is unfocused - i think this summarizes GSD the best.

[aznroyale]

the only thing i hate is that he kills some of the good characters. like Henie, and Nicole

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

Originally posted by: DDBen

Athrun is not as good a pilot as Kira(note he is exceptional but he's never managed to beat Kira in any of there fights).

wtf are you fucking kidding with me? athrun totally owned kira in episode 30 of gundam seed, i don't know what your smoking but athrun grabbed onto him with aegis then if he still had ps armor then he would've totally killed kira but he self-destructed and that still should've killed kira so athrun won, i think you are blinded by your love for kira

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: AtHRunOwNZaLL
wtf are you fucking kidding with me? athrun totally owned kira in episode 30 of gundam seed, i don't know what your smoking but athrun grabbed onto him with aegis then if he still had ps armor then he would've totally killed kira but he self-destructed and that still should've killed kira so athrun won, i think you are blinded by your love for kira

Yet Athrun didn't kill Kira and both of the Gundams were destroyed. That fight was a tie. Your also not talking a 1 on 1 fight for either party considering Kira however killed another Gundam while Athrun only took out a skygrasper. I would say that fight ended with 2 Gundams for Kira 1.5 for Athrun.

The only fanboy here is you which is stated by your name.

@Jurojin removing your head from your arse was flaming it was also a suggestion(and as a side note it was also imagry as one who's head is stuck up there arse can obviously not see anything aside from the inside of said arse). I responded after your second flame to knock off the pointless flaming not to your first. Also why don't you try posting something with a point instead. Currently all your doing is ranting. Now if you really think that killing off your main character every once in a while is good for a story they I suggest you write a show that does so and see how well it sells. No show is sustainable without its star/stars. What would Naruto be if they killed him off and moved on, or Kenshin without well Kenshin. In the end if the author in the end the only long running show where I can think of this being attempted was Dragon Ball Z, where Gohan was suppose to be the main character but the fans hated him so much they were forced to keep bringing Goku back from the dead to keep it running. All this ammount to is a even worse story then you get by working within the worth you created.

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: DDBen


All of that being said knock off the pointless flaming PSJ it will get you nowhere and this is a thread for rants reguardless.

So how should i take this? You think about me that much? Don't know why my name is related with pointless flaming though, i have never flamed pointlessly.

On a more serious note, DDBen give it up. Anyone could out do your essay long posts with one sentance and have been doing so since this discussion started.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: PSJ
So how should i take this? You think about me that much? Don't know why my name is related with pointless flaming though, i have never flamed pointlessly.

On a more serious note, DDBen give it up. Anyone could out do your essay long posts with one sentance and have been doing so since this discussion started.

You should take that earlier comment as a random typo induced by being at work.

As for your second statement I'm still waiting for you to post anything that has any logic behind it instead of simply posting random feelings that would neither improve the story or make anyone involved with it anymore money. In the end the driving force behind gundam is prophiet and if you can't accept that then you shouldn't waste your time watching.

As a side note if you bothered to read anything the only thing I stated that was contested at all was weather or not they should have had Shinn kill Kira.

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: PSJ
So how should i take this? You think about me that much? Don't know why my name is related with pointless flaming though, i have never flamed pointlessly.

On a more serious note, DDBen give it up. Anyone could out do your essay long posts with one sentance and have been doing so since this discussion started.

You should take that earlier comment as a random typo induced by being at work.

As for your second statement I'm still waiting for you to post anything that has any logic behind it instead of simply posting random feelings that would neither improve the story or make anyone involved with it anymore money. In the end the driving force behind gundam is prophiet and if you can't accept that then you shouldn't waste your time watching.

As a side note if you bothered to read anything the only thing I stated that was contested at all was weather or not they should have had Shinn kill Kira.

And that little part where you dismissed everyone's opinions & thoughts about Kira living/dying by calling them Kira haters...

[Jurojin]

The problem with your whole point DDBen is quite simple. Kira should not be the main character of GSD. Fukada is an idiot, and did what the Kira-fans/psychos and the $$ from sales suggested- keep Kira in there.

But Kira was the star of Seed, his only role in GSD so far has been "OMFG PWNZORS!" Killing Kira off would have only helped GSD. Maybe if they did it before 34, to give more time for the impact of it all to sink in. Like, during the 1st Lacus assassination attempt, he takes a fatal bullet for her, which moves Lacus to do other things, secret war against ZAFT or something. Or switch roles, Lacus gets killed because Kira couldn't protect her, then he goes all cyborg with Freedom and starts going after all ZAFT forces, forcing a final confrontation with Athrun/Shinn, with Kira dying, then moving forward with the Destiny Plan et al.


Shinn is supposed to be whom GSD was supposed to focus on, or even maybe have Athrun be the focus. But because of following the sales model instead of good gripping plot, GSD is FUBAR.

Kenshin w/o Kenshin is not Kenshin.
Samurai Deeper Kyo w/o Kyo is not SDK.
Gundam w/o Amuro is not Gundam.
Gundam Seed w/o Kira is not Gundam Seed.

Gundam Seed Destiny w/o Kira, however, should still be able to be GSD. Not @ this point because of Fuckup-ada, but it should have been.





And I still stand that what I first directed towards you was not a flame.

"Pull your head out of your arse" is a direct flame, not imagery.

Trying to dance around it isn't going to help you.

Kthnxbi.


Edit:

Honestly, as far as Gundam Seed goes, they could have killed Kira, and focused on Athrun since, well, he's also a main character of Seed. Would have made for a completely different ending and turn of events, but, realistically, they could have pulled it off, since I'm sure that Athrun has a pretty stable and large fanbase all his own. (if we follow your profit based logic)