Fukuda Rants & Rave

[Strike Freedom]

Originally posted by: coud656
Hi minna!! ^_^ I'm new so hello =D

And now to the topic!*dum dum dum*
I have been visiting this place for awhile and just read thru all 3 pages of this thread and wow it was fun

Yo Coud656! Welcome aboard as AthRun OwNZall just recently stated. I enjoyed reading your post, as you point out some valid information for all to read. I am a Kira fan (but as it was said I do not have a plush doll that I hug as I am watching this series of him nor would I want a blow up doll of him unlike certain people :evil[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]. As a Kira fan, I would like to state for the record that Kira is not a god as made out to be by some people. Kira did lose to both Athrun and Shinn in GS and GSD. Of course, he made a come back. But the point is, he has lost before and made it out alive out of almost every certain death (if only life was that kind as Fukuda). So I hope this bickering of "he lost/he didn't" comes to an end. Or might have already and i'm just adding gasoline to the fire.....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[masamuneehs]

Strike Freedom, the gas you added to the open wounds of those who really thought it was utter garbage that Kira survived the destruction of Freedom is old. We're quite used to people rubbing it in that Kira has lost before, therefore he is not some God.

It's a combo of Kira's immortality and Lacus' constantly-superior idealistic speeches (so much like dullindal's i believe, except she has nowhere near the same ambition to lead others) that have swelled the corps of Kira/Lacus Haters.

I know everyone will have different opinions. I loved Kira in the original SEED series. He had flare, was constantly struggling to figure out what to do, showed alot of emotion, was used and confused etc. Destiny's Kira lacks a great deal of these things. and it is getting old, him always using the SF or Freedom's interface to disarm dozens of enemies at a time, then drolling on and on about "doing the right thing".

I don't have anything againt Kira fans, except the narrowminded ones (and there are ones in every character's following), I solely blame Fukuda and the anime creators for using him the way they did in destiny.

[DDBen]

First off if anyone can tell me ANYTHING Athrun gained in a battle where all he managed to do was injure Kira and damage strike at the cost of not 1 but 2 elite units and a redcoat I'm listening.

That whole mess aside as were getting nowhere with it. Anyone who thinks GSD would be better if they killed Kira is still not addressing the most basic problem with GSD. Killing someone to improve a plot that you screwed up isn't a solution and Kira isn't even the issue as most of you atleast have stated you LIKED Kira in GS. This clearly shows that the problem is rooted in the entire story of GSD down to episode 1 with the creation of Shinn. I've already stated several issue with episode one and then not including Kira in the story.

Now explain to me whats wrong with the actions taken by Kira and the AA in the first place. Here is a simple breakdown of cause and effect.

Step 1: Kira and Lacus are living with all the random kids they picked up generally avoiding politics and the military Junius 7 is dropped and Zaft attempts to stop it with some help from Athrun.
Reaction: Kira has a heart to heart with Shinn at the memorial and Orb supports the repairs of the Minerva.

Step 2: Someone attempts to assassinate Lacus who at this point has done nothing.
Reaction: Kira uses Freedom to defend Lacus and the others living with him.

Step 3: Kira's sister is forced into a arranged marriage with a complete jackass and said jackass has orb join the EA thus changing it from neutral over to taking a side.
Reaction Kira grabs his sister and the AA takes off to essentially see what happens caught between what sounds right and the fact Zaft tried to kill Lacus.

Step 4: Orb is forced to act and is asked to support the EA in attacking Zaft.
Reaction Calgari asks Kira for aid in stopping the battle and attempts to talk Orb out of supporting the EA period as they should be neutral.

Step 4.5: Random talk with Athrun that lunimaria watches it essentially have been meaningless except the picture of Athrun with the others is later used by dullindale.

Step 5: Orb is forced to continue persuit of Zaft and they have the Minerva cornered. It is about to shoot off its main gun but at this point its still at a extreme disadvantage.
Reaction: Calgari asks Kira once again to attempt to get Orb to not fight for either side on the words of lacus who basically tells them to finish what they started. Essentially at this time I think its fairly safe to say the Minerva was saved by the AA's actions allowing the pilots to all survive. However Kira did disable a LOT of the Minerva's defensive capabilities so its argueable atleast that the battle could have gone either way.

Step 6: Shinn hands back Stellar over to the EA and she is handed destroy which she uses to kill off hundreds of thousands if not millions of people without any reguard to weather or not they are even remotely involved in the war.
Reaction: Kira not only takes out Destroy while sparring Stellar from dying immediately atleast. He also clearly saves Shinn's life as at this point Shinn is hopelessly outmatched by Destroy.

Step 7: The AA is cornered by Zaft (don't ask me how as they had no forces left in the area but anywa).
Reaction : The AA and Freedom attempt to escape without shooting back. This tactic makes no sense as Kira is clearly disabling mobile suits and reguardless of if the AA shoots I see no reason Dullindale couldn't already modify this footage as he did with that of the Destroy battle to make it look like they did fight back. Kira loses Freedom for whatever reason (note I didn't like this fight but heck Kira lost a Nuclear MS and Shinn lost a few fliers so Shinn clearly came out on top).

Step 7: After a lot of pointless speaches and watching video's we move on to Eternal being attacked.
Reaction Kira takes Strike Rogue and basically demolishes it only to have Lacus pull a shiney new Strike freedom out of her ass. Then procedes to take care of all those attacking in a stupidly short period of time.
Sidenote: This one made no sense at all as Zaft new where the factory was and being it didn't look to mobile AND the Zaft pilots and ships were only disabled why didn't Dullindale just send a bigger force to finish the Job.

Step 8[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]rb is attacked directly by plant.
Reaction: Basically KIra defends plant and now we see that IJ and SF have no need for any extrashielding from heat and they take aboslutely no time to reach the ground from space for whatever reason. This is also the first time that Athrun acts directly against Zaft in a MS as last time he was simply running.

From then on all thats happened so far is Meer dying and frankly she deserved that and all it managed to do was waste not 1 but 2 episodes out of the last 5.

Overall I don't think anything thats been done had been unreasonable. I do think its been way to predictable and essentially the entire plot of the series is really just thin and bad. Now if we go back and take out the Lacus assassination attempt and Meer while were at it. We can have a much better plot with Kira sitting on his ass in orb until its attacked OR not having him participate in a fight until Destroy is used. If we wait until Destroy then it definatly makes the plot more believeable as now Shinn would have a real reason to question why there attacking Orb after they just aided Zaft in preventing any more civilians from being killed for no reason. Right now we have no reason for Shinn to defect aside from Athrun and the Kira/Rey matter would develope reguardless of anything else. This also allows us 30 episodes to get use to the new cast with only Athrun really taking a center role.

[aznimperialx]

i agree with DBen

[Strike Freedom]

DBen, nice job buddy, your points are valid and do make sense.

Now, as to why I believe that Athuran did win (as much as it hurts to admit [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] ). I answer with a question: who disabled/destroyed who's suit? Athuran did in fact destroy Kira's suit, as well as losing his in the process. Now, I do admit that both pilots survived and both suits were destroyed, allowing for the idea of a draw to be realized. At the same time, the way I look at it is that Athuran did in fact stop Kira and at the same time stopped himself. However, Athuran is the one who put an end to the fight. Therefore, I believe Athuran is the slight victor in this battle. HOWEVER, the almighty Fukuda had Kira survive, thus allowing what would seemingly be a draw. So, does this mean I believe that Athuran won and at the same time didn't win. Perhaps, my main point is that there is a grey area that allows for speculation. It all depends on a person's view on the facts (what they see). So, Athuran won the battle for a while, as long as most of us assumed he was dead in the series. Then, when Kira is still alive, it's a draw. YET, Athuran did stop Strike, even at the cost of his own mobile suit. Once again, I stress there is no right or wrong answer, but from my opinion Ahturan wins that battle.

[Gangrel]

Originally posted by: DDBen
Step 6: Shinn hands back Stellar over to the EA and she is handed destroy which she uses to kill off hundreds of thousands if not millions of people without any reguard to weather or not they are even remotely involved in the war.
Reaction: Kira not only takes out Destroy while sparring Stellar from dying immediately atleast. He also clearly saves Shinn's life as at this point Shinn is hopelessly outmatched by Destroy.

Actually that's the only thing I would like to disagree on ur post. I do think Shinn was doing fine against Destroy (I hate him but he was doing good). Kira hadn't done a scratch in destroy since he arrived, and then Shinn arrives, and already slice up near the cockpit almost killing Stellar (would be awesome if he did kill her). Then Neo comes up and mess up with the boy, who is already mentally unstable.

Pretty much the actions of AA weren't bad, I just didn't like for em to reuse same crew, characters of first series when there are so many other characters to explore. Fukuda just looks like a kid with lots of toys and don't know what to do with em.

I think AA had done its part on Seed, it didn't have to come back. As for the characters I do think Kagari was important to appear on 2nd Season (leader of ORB of course she has a major role). Athrun? Yes, but not with the same development of the other series. Kira? Maybe bring him back in the end of the series, but not to be a major role of being a god mode inside a MS. Lacus? I would prefer she was killed since 1st episode... Maybe also some show ups of AA crew OUTSIDE AA, not inside doing the same thing all over again.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Gangrel
Actually that's the only thing I would like to disagree on ur post. I do think Shinn was doing fine against Destroy (I hate him but he was doing good). Kira hadn't done a scratch in destroy since he arrived, and then Shinn arrives, and already slice up near the cockpit almost killing Stellar (would be awesome if he did kill her). Then Neo comes up and mess up with the boy, who is already mentally unstable.

Shinn was doing fine with Destroy destracted by Kira he indeed landed the first blow however the direct issue is that once he realised that Stellar was the pilot he froze and when Kira stabbed it with the beam sabers in the chest. Which is what ultimately took down Destroy. Shinn was standing directly in the path of the chest Cannon unable/unwilling to defend himself. There is Zero question a direct hit meant he would have been killed and the Minerva with no other Mobile suits would have been a sitting duck for destroy considering the only weapon it had that MIGHT work against it is the tripple barreled cannon that can't seem to hit anything.

@Strike Freedom.
Understand I do see your points however. Strike was salvaged and later used by Mwu that was NOT a new mobile suit like Strike Rouge. Also even if you want to say that Athrun and Kira 1 on 1 was slightly in Athruns favor you can't deney Blitz was a much greater loss to Zaft then a Skygrasper with a virtually untrained pilot putting the advantage in the fight right back in Kira's favor both in result and during the actual fight considering had Blitz not jumped in then Athrun could have been either taken out at that point or later have lacked the will to go Seed.

[Strike Freedom]

DDBen, I agree with every point u made. But, I am just considering their battle, and not anything before or after that battle (with the exception of Kira still being alive which must be included).

But no quarrels on my side from what you said [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[coud656]

Hi again and DDBen there is no proof that Shinn WOULD have died to the Destroy for all we know he could have dodged at the last second...and yes Blitz was a major loss but not to ZAFT since they didn't even build it and already had the plans for it...if they wanted they could just recreate the Blitz IMO =O and yes Athrun could have died,been injured or better yet taken hostage if Nicole didnt go in and save his ass but i doubt it would have made any difference in his will to go SEED even if Nicole didn't jump in unless he died then wouldnt be able to go SEED but Fukuda wouldnt kill of the main character's best friend since Athrun also had some high fan rankings in Japan just below Kira if i remember =O and any unit will make a difference on a battlefield even if your a ZAFT redcoat...its basically like real life an ace fighter vs another ace fighter that is the so called "Ultimate Coordinator" and one of his friends that also has some exceptional battle skills since Tolle got good scores in the training if i remember...and from reading your post I think you misunderstand that the fight where nicole died and Tolle died were separate(sorry if u know plz forgive me >_&lt[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[Miro69]

let's get back to the topic here people. fukuda should die >[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

[coud656]

Lol yeah one of the best answers so far in this entire topic...fukuda must die lol =D

[Strike Freedom]

Ok, if anyone saw the latest episode (48) then they will understand how much I abhor FUKUDA!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img] Leave it to him to fuck up this series yet again. I cannot stress how disappointing this episode was. I do not mind talking, but not for the whole fucking episode, we've had enough of that in the last few episodes. There is not enough time to finish this series off. I fear a horrible ending with yet more holes than the first series. Further, the series at this point is too predictable. I'm just sick and tired of this BS talk. I thank Fukuda for destroying what little hope I had to rejuvinate the series. I hope many of you are just as pissed if not more!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Splash!]

i hope the mods will overlook this display of vulgarity but

FUCK FUKUDA! FUCK FUKUDA! FUCK FUKUDA!

A million times over

[masamuneehs]

Wait DDben, just wait a second there!

Originally posted by: DDBen
Anyone who thinks GSD would be better if they killed Kira is still not addressing the most basic problem with GSD. Killing someone to improve a plot that you screwed up isn't a solution and Kira isn't even the issue as most of you atleast have stated you LIKED Kira in GS. <u>This clearly shows that the problem is rooted in the entire story of GSD down to episode 1 with the creation of Shinn. </u>

Are you seriously saying that the problem with GSD comes from Shinn? Are you actually serious?

If you think introducing a new central character to the story is what made GSD suck, you are terribly terribly mistaken. Bringing in Shinn, a new character makes several good points and opened up GSD to some good opportunities:

1. It shows that even unintended or accidental effects of war can drastically change the future. Shinn would never have been a major character without his family getting killed at Onogoro. He probably would have never joined the military. War is hell because innocent people get caught up in it and then their survivors are fueled with bitter vengence and can even make the next war worse.

2. If Shinn was needed as a central character, it shows that they really had run out of things to do with Kira, personality wise.

3. Shinn's imperfections are one of the more refreshing aspects of GSD. Yes he is a crybaby, moody, and sometimes vain about his accomplishments. BUT this is what can so easily happen to an "ace" in wartime.

4. Obviously all of Kira's actions were understandable when you consider the circumstances from his POV. But to blame Shinn for it is wrong. Shinn did not choose to do anything except follow orders. Dullindal can be pointed to as the catalyst behind most of Kira's actions, but that is because FUKUDA NEEDED SOMEONE TO FORCE KIRA BACK OUT ONTO THE SCENE. Fukuda obviously wants to make Kira the reluctant hero, the peace-loving high-minded nice guy who is forced by his enemies moves to fight. He has used ZAFT, Yuna Roma, and others to make this occur. Such things are PLOT DEVICES, not attributable to the characters.

Kira's actions are quite predictable because every situation he is put in is so stilted and painfully constructed so that Kira and AA only have one real option open to them.

The whole problem with GSD is that it has been so linear and filled with black and white contrasts that the only interesting aspects of it have been the fights, occasional side characters, and the regular razzle-dazzle of bringing back old characters.

GSD's suckiness cannot be attributed to any member of the cast, least of all the new characters that could have been drawn on to make GSD not just a rehashed version of SEED.

GSD sucks because it was made to generate money and to leech off of the Gundam name and a very previous series. It is painfully obvious that not much thought was put into the plot, and that the object was monetary gain.

[Terracosmo]

Don't bother with DDBen. It's like talking to a wall, except that walls aren't Kira fanboys hell bent to defy logic &amp; throw shit at Shinn for random reasons as often as they can.

[coud656]

Dude how can the creation of Shinn be a problem??To me it was after the episode about that first recap FAITH or something....after that only did GSD go downhill into shitsville...and Shinn didn't do anything if you want to blame someone go for Fukuda but he probably won't even listen since his main objective for creating GSD was actually to just get cash since GS was the first series for the 20th century and that it got famous so he just made this sequel for the sake of making one and earning cash while sitting on his fat ass...and as masamuneehs said all the people that manipulated Shinn and what not are just plot devices since they can't think of anything more to do with Kira.It just proves that is the reason why Shinn became the new lead for the first half and Kira again later cause the fans just wanna see him beat stuff in Freedom or Strike Freedom and orgasm themselves...and from what I see your a major Kira fan so you must hate and detest Shinn...well you may get your happy ending since this maybe a Zeta ending but i'm not going to spoil it since it may be called spoilers but if you really wanna know go watch Zeta unless u have watched it already

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

i think it was the return of lacus in seed destiny that is the problem, darn you stupid assassins!! why didn't you freaking kill her?!?!

[Strike Freedom]

Originally posted by: AtHRunOwNZaLL
i think it was the return of lacus in seed destiny that is the problem, darn you stupid assassins!! why didn't you freaking kill her?!?!

I would say the fault lies with the return of the Fukuda [img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]

[SkyGodFallacy]

Yes, GSD would've been better off with Kira dying when he fought Shinn, my god this is becoming more like DBZ, Death has no meaning! Also muu shouldve stayed dead, Neo should be a clone, in the interests of adhering to in some capacity to the meaning of death. Think about it tho now iam not a kira hater, hell i dont even hate shinn, althought his character confuses me sometimes (IE why would he want to destroy Orb so much, i thought that having experienced his family dying en masse he wouldnt want to cause that pain for anyone one else living in that country or anywhere else for that matter, i suppose its beyond me tho) but with Kira getting killed, that would add a whole new dynamic to the storyline, there you have the revenge factor going for Athrun, ah hes another alternative, Kira didnt physically die when Shinn owned him, he just became a vegetable, i kinda like this one, all the emotional pain, now Kira cant communicate at all, hes just a shadow of his former self, also hes horriblely burned too, christ you would expect a character in a japanese show to have some realism in regards to surviving an nuclear explosion. Now you have all these deep and emotional issues for the characters to deal with, now that my friends would make an amazing show, think of the depth and the resolve that would stem from it.

Also why the hell is Fukuda so goddamned lazy with character development, christ, Meyrin and Lunamarie, honestly, who are they? Can someone tell me, i dont know, no one knows. They have no character at all. They just exist, thats all, thats it. Also with the 3 druggies from Seed, same thing, they guys come out of no where, its almost as if, fukuka thought damn i gotta create 3 new pilots, oh christ the deadline is tomorrow, oh well, i dont respect my fans at all unless they are part of the pokemon demograph, screw the back story completely, the hell with it.

ok even tho this is a rant topic i like to be fair tho, I must say I do enjoy the art work in the series, like anyone else, i do enjoy seeing the grunts get killed by the hundreds in 30 secs, that just facinates me, as well as the whole thing with the lasers, i like how its animated, how the picture sometimes flashes entirely the color of the laser for effect. I also liked the whole sequence when Kira gets Strike-Freedom, i liked the light effects and the flashy moves when he easily disables his enemies, i must have watched that 10 times and slowed down to see the frames at some of the more interesting scenes. But what I cant stand is lazyiness and cutting corners, I hate it, i hate seeing the same goddamned scene showed a dozen times, like a gouf firing a beam from the rifle, then later on having 4 superimposed on one basically firing the beam the exact same way, i know its saves money, but where do you draw the line with that and all the other examples of it you can think of.

Also iam enjoying the whole philosopical debate about the destiny plan, it seems like an interesting issue and as well as a solution to the problems in not only the GSD universe but the real life one as well, that may be the shows savings grace for me, but then again, i may complain, but that wont stop me from watching and seeing how this train wreck ends.

[Freki]

If Kira dies in 34, and AA and ORB and Eternal all somehow survived everything that hs happened since then, it would still just be Athrun against Rey and Shinn. As we saw before, Kira was almost beat by Shinn and Rey and Athrun had to fly out injured in order to save him. I doubt Athrun would fair any better, especially in space where the DRAGOON system can be used. Kira dying in 34 does nothing but make ZAFT an unbeatable force. I think that Kira dying in 34 would have made the show far worse, sure Kira's friends could have their time dealing with Kira's death before they realize they are hopelessly outmanned for the rest of the show. the show has been building up to a 2ace v 2ace finale since the beginning and to suddenly remove 1 of the ace pilots with less then 20 episodes to go would disrupt the storyline more then it helps. If Kira was removed some other pilot would need to be removed in the interest of a huge final battle that wouldn't just be one side beating the shit out of another for a few episodes, the only person who could be removed then is Rey since Athrun would be needed to maintain Orbs strength and of Shinn and Rey, Rey is easier to get rid of.