Fukuda Rants & Rave

[masamuneehs]

Wow, this back and forth bickering heating up.

DDBen, in your first post I believe you mistake some of the EFFECTS of bad script writing and directing for CAUSES of the shittiness of GSD.

Having Rey, Meer, Shinn's cocky/bitchy/whiny/aggressive personality, the EAF decline after losing Phantom Pain, Lunamaria in the series were all excellent opportunities. They've just been neglected by the script and the focusing more on Seed characters. Also, if you're going to make the case for having Shinn be captured or defeated at some point in the series, you are ignoring the bigger Bullshit Invincible Character. Kira survived a cockpit shot, averted a nuclear explosion, and was fished out of freezing waters by a retreating ArchAngel.... And lets not also mention Sting's surviving Chaos' crash or Mwu doing the same.

Also DDBen, you express alot of Fukuda like thinking by basing what should happen on which characters are popular in the fanbase. This is a recipe for rehashed garbage, an extremely conservative formula that Fukuda has stuck to so much that its pathetic. Any character from the original Seed series is portrayed as being "the good guy" and none of them have died, despite being in peril in numerous episodes.

Oh, and War is about Death. War dramas are fueled by the constant threat that almost any character can die at anytime. But in Destiny we essentially know that Seed characters will survive and others like Rey, Stellar, Auel, Sting, DOM Troopers, Heine and Meer (though I thought she'd survive actually) are the only ones at risk of getting killed.

Remember how they used to end the previews of episodes for the original Mobile Suit Gundam? Not with some corny idealistic line, but with an ominous "Who will survive?" THAT is war, that is the basis of what Gundam is, not model kits, not popular fanbase, not favoring certain VAs (YzakcoughcoughYzak) but telling a believable and exciting story about imperfect human beings and their efforts in war.

[Jurojin]

DDBen:

The fact remains that your head is simply to far up your arse

DDBen:

All of that being said knock off the pointless flaming PSJ it will get you nowhere and this is a thread for rants reguardless

2 things:

1) You started it. All I did was suggest (which you have not disproved, only attempted to sidestep it) to the point that you are a Kira fan. Perhaps the insult was the Fukada comment, but hey, considering how you seem to be agreeing with his logic (fanbase > plot credibility) it was warranted.

2) I am not PSJ, and he hasn't even posted in this thread :-/

Edit:


I could so see this happening-


Announcer: "On the next episode of Gundam Seed: Destiny Idol, what will the judges say about the remaining cast members?"

Paula: "I really think that Shinn, while all angsty and stuff, is a real contender to win. Kira seems to be a bit too 1D for this show, and really has no room to grow. We should do him a favor and let him move onto greener pastures."

Fukada: "Unfortunatly Paula, Shinn's not very well liked, while Kira has the highest fan base. But since you seem to like him a lot, I'll spare him the axe. Simon?"

Simon: "Well, I for one can't wait for Kira to be pasted on the mountain side. *booing in the crowd*. But I hear that Heine is becoming very popular, and might even surpass Kira in fandom."

Fukada: "We can't have the character I've set up to be God killed or surpassed. Hmmm. Well, looks like Heine's just going to have to go."

[Splash!]

Let me join this rant

FUKUDA IS A NO GOOD S.O.B!!!!
He ruined the bloody series. He is a wimp. I wish even now that some one kills him, a new director comes and changes the script to end the series in a good way (probably adding 3-4 episodes at the end toget some explanation done). But who am i kidding, nothing like that is ever going to happen.

In any case, despite all the screw ups i will still be willing to forgive him if kira dies, even at this stage. His purpose is served, he has gone through as much character development as fukuda could give him, he has accomplished more than enough, he needs to die.
Also , Shinn should die too if they kill of luna. If they don't, then i think he should live.

But who am i kidding, i cannot expect fukuda to make something of this series. the past has already shown what he is capable of

This is my theory of how Fukuda will end the story--->
Shinn will join Clyne Faction.
Rey will die at Shinns hands
Kira Athrun Mwu, Shinn, Luna, Lacus will not die
Kira will kill Gil, and Talia will also die.
Coordinators and naturals will finally get together and everyone will live happily ever after. The military will be disbanded and everyone will be unemployed. THE END

Lets see how much of this will happen

[Freki]

I know what events happened in 34 that made you pick that episode, I simply thought that actually thinking that that would somehow have saved GSD is foolish, and the only reason to support killing him then or at any point, as opposed to simply not involving him in show, is cuz you hate him and wanna just see him die on screen. Athrun's actions would have been the same and the AA crew wouldn't go on about revenge since they would prolly stay true to the belief that revenge wouldn't solve anything. The only difference his death in 34 would cause would be to disrupt the balance of Ace pilots in GSD. Who could possibly fill in for Kira to help Athrun fight Rey and Shinn at this late point in the series? Nt to mention the fact that the first SF v Destiny battle happened while Athrun was injured still. All killing Kira would do would make Eternal gone after episode 39 and Orb would fall when Zaft attacked to get Djibril. That is why you don't get rid of Kira, the series would have nowhere left to go unless we followed Minerva around for 10 episodes not fighting anyone until they decided to go against the chairman, but without some voice of opposition I don't see that happening, not to mention the fact that involving AA crew at all so that that can be their end is the most pointless waste of all their screen time.

I think they only way GSD could have really been better was if it had been seperate from SEED and not involved any of the characters in prominent roles. They should have started fresh, by keeping so many characters around they had to split time between all their old characters and all the new ones and obviously there was not enough character development to go around. Having Kira in the series and killing him could work but I don't see it serving any real purpose other then satisfying the people who hate him, it would have been much better just to abandon him, and the other old characters, after SEED.

Also, while main characters should not be above the possibility of dying, simply killing off main characters because it hasn't been done in a Gundam series is stupid. You shouldn't be killing main characters just because they are a main character just like you shouldn't keep someone around just because they are a main character.

[Nai]

Originally posted by: Freki
... is cuz you hate him and wanna just see him die on screen.

Or because he's at a literal dead end when it comes to character development.

There are no surprises with Kira. No changes. No mystery. No development. And this, this is what makes him a boring and placid character. I cannot fathom why ANYONE would enjoy him at this point. He has the personality of a rock, the hairstyle of a mop and the voice of a prepubescent boy who's been spanked far too many times.

Originally posted by: Freki
The only difference his death in 34 would cause would be to disrupt the balance of Ace pilots in GSD

Right, because right now we have such excellent balance. His very EXISTENCE is what disrupts the freakin' balance. How can a battle be exciting when you know he will swoop down in the last second and "LolZ PwnZ" everyone in a matter of seconds? That is, unless he gets "distracted" or some bullshit like that according to our beloved Fukuda.

And did you ever stop to think that killing off Kira would perhaps let characters close to him, such as Lacus, develop? I mean, surely losing the person you loved would fuck up your head a bit, no? I'm really touching another issue here, however. The issue of the would be "good guys" not suffering any losses and subsequently no real changes. I guess this kind of plot in which nothing ever occurs past big explosions and the painfully obvious exorcism of all things evil and unjust would appeal to some, however.

[masamuneehs]

Originally posted by: splash
Let me join this rant

This is my theory of how Fukuda will end the story--->
Shinn will join Clyne Faction.
Rey will die at Shinns hands
Kira Athrun Mwu, Shinn, Luna, Lacus will not die
Kira will kill Gil, and Talia will also die.
Coordinators and naturals will finally get together and everyone will live happily ever after. The military will be disbanded and everyone will be unemployed. THE END

Lets see how much of this will happen

Lol. I was thinking that EVERY ONE of those things will occur in the upcoming final episodes!

It is obvious that Shinn is having second thoughts about Dullindal, and you can tell he's going to leave soon because Rey hasn't been trying to support him and be a friend, like he was earlier on (helping Shinn escape with Stellar, standing up for him in front of Athrun)

Shinn will also take Lunamaria with him to the Clune Faction.

Shinn will kill Rey, it's the only way the final episode will have any kind of drama in it if Shinn is on the AA side.

Which makes me wonder if Shinn might have to stay with the Minerva, along with Lunamaria, just because it sets up an excellent 3 on 3 battle (Kira, Athrun, Mwu VS. Shinn, Rey, Lunamaria) and would be that much better than just everyone Vs. Rey... And if that's the case, I predict Rey and Lunamaria die, leaving Shinn so empty that he finally gives up (thus surviving himself)

Everyone will go unemployed. BUT because Fukuda seems to want to make a 3rd Series out of Seed, don't expect Lacus Faction or any competent good guys to have any part in the Peace Accord at the end of the Destiny War. Then we'll have the Blue Cosmos revived, resurrect Flay, Stellar and Heine to fuck with Kira's, Shinn's and Athrun's heads, a brand new Coordinator plot to control the universe, more attempts to sell model kits and more BS garbage.

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

the only way i can see fukuda regaining our love is if he upgrades the METEORs and make special cameos of gundams from the astray manga(like the red frame astray or the gold frame astray) in the final battle

[Freki]

Originally posted by: Nai

Originally posted by: Freki
... is cuz you hate him and wanna just see him die on screen.

Or because he's at a literal dead end when it comes to character development.

There are no surprises with Kira. No changes. No mystery. No development. And this, this is what makes him a boring and placid character. I cannot fathom why ANYONE would enjoy him at this point. He has the personality of a rock, the hairstyle of a mop and the voice of a prepubescent boy who's been spanked far too many times.

Originally posted by: Freki
The only difference his death in 34 would cause would be to disrupt the balance of Ace pilots in GSD

Right, because right now we have such excellent balance. His very EXISTENCE is what disrupts the freakin' balance. How can a battle be exciting when you know he will swoop down in the last second and "LolZ PwnZ" everyone in a matter of seconds? That is, unless he gets "distracted" or some bullshit like that according to our beloved Fukuda.

And did you ever stop to think that killing off Kira would perhaps let characters close to him, such as Lacus, develop? I mean, surely losing the person you loved would fuck up your head a bit, no? I'm really touching another issue here, however. The issue of the would be "good guys" not suffering any losses and subsequently no real changes. I guess this kind of plot in which nothing ever occurs past big explosions and the painfully obvious exorcism of all things evil and unjust would appeal to some, however.

Those reasons are the exact reason why I feel he shouldn't be killed in GSD, any involvement from him in the series is too much, even characters who are in there to die should have some kind of positive effect on the quality of the story, having him die in GSD is simply devoting time to him so that he can eventually be killed off for being dull. Also we saw how traumatized Lacus was when her dad was killed off in SEED I would expect the same type of reaction now, she might be saddened, but I doubt it would change her attitude about anything.

And there is balance now, we have 2 Aces against 2 Aces all in the most powerful suits. Sure you may think that Kira is invincible, but so far Shinn is the only one of the 4 to not lose a MS in battle. Everyone goes on and on about invincible Kira when Shinn is just as invincible, one survives being shot down the other never gets shot down. I think there is not a large gap between the two pairs right now, and it would be far worse without Kira there.

[DDBen]

@ Jurojin

First off my bad on calling you PSJ I was posing in 2 topics and made a error due to you having virtually the same opionion. However reguardless of that I was at fault in doing that and will modify the post to correct the error.

As for the flaming lets see

now as for flaming goes your initial comment as follows would be the initial flaming that took place.

I forgot that arguing this point with you is like like bashing my head into a brick wall. It gets nowhere and just ends up giving me brain trauma. You're not going to let go of your Kira plushie and your "Fukada pwns j00" poster, and I'm not going to change my opinion that Kira should have kicked the bucket, for good reason, when he faced off with Shinn.

That was followed by me suggesting you remove your head from your arse however that was not the focus of the post. I didn't comment about anyone flaming until you continued it in the next post by making both a false quote which was nothing but derogatory and offered NOTHING in relation to the conversation at hand.

@Masamuneehs

First off all bad script writing and directing is the fault of Fukada as if he didn't like what he saw in a script he wouldn't have let/had the series go in that direction in the first place.

As for me having Fukada like thinking this is both true and false. The part that is true is that I believe in any story where you have a established main character the fans are going to want to see that main character continue in there role or else why did they watch the first series. Fukada's issue lies purely in the execution of this making characters be either stuck on repeat doing the same thing they did all over again or causing the characters developement to pause for absolutely no reason. The pacing of this show has been terrible from the start. I don't even think for a second this should have been such a global war in the first place. I think that had they done it in a more Astray type setting where the fate of the world wasn't hanging in the balance and we could simply see characters develope with less of the rehashed and pointless politics we would all be far happier.

As for it being a drama about War and Death. While this is completely true of a series that is about more of a squad of guys being shown behind the scenes during a conflict. This is not the case for any show which contains main characters. You simply can't kill the person who is telling the story or there is nothing to tell. Its predetermined that the person will live as otherwise there is nothing to be told. Given this isn't a narative of that nature it is a story that centers around those with the power to do something in a large scale conflict. As such killing a major player would serve to do nothing but stiffle the story. This is the main reason why I would have prefered a much smaller conflict as its easier to kill off someone in order to develope someone else.

@ Freki
I agree with your post so there is nothing to rehash

@ Nai.
Kira's lack of developement is because GSD just has to many characters fighting for screen time then when you cut 1/10th of the episodes and replace them with clip shows there is no time to adequately develope anyone.

Essentially Kira's death serves no purpose in 34 heck Kira serves no real purpose in GSD aside from being a plot device that sells models. If they had simply left the AA out of the entire conflict until either Orb was attacked or Minerva defected the series overall would have worked out a lot better. Note if Kira dies in 34 then Lacus dies in 39 and we have absolutely nothing of worth left except Zaft wins. No Doms No SF or IJ and essentially no plot Fukada painted himself into a corner by immediately including Kira and Athrun and making them follow exactly the same path. The only thing that made this remotely interesting to me was the fact that Kira had become so steadfast in his determination which allowed the plot to change slightly from GS.

@AtHRunOwNZaLL

unfortuneatly we have already seen the Meteors when the Eternal was fighting and they had absolutely no upgrades done to them(that I noticed). This is a result of the Meteors being to big to effectively market as models.
As far as Cameos go if this is really the last series using these characters I truely hope they bring them on as I would love to see the Junk guilds fighting along sige the Clyne faction instead of simply waiting on the sidelines. Mainly due to the fact the destiny plan screws them over as well(no junk means that there MS racket is completely off the table and that they will be doomed to a life as garbage men).

[Gangrel]

Originally posted by: DDBen

If Shinn killed Kira that would result in unbalancing the GS world in general. You take out the #1 Pilot on episode 34 now what do you have left to do in the series. Shinn is already with Zaft who is winning the war. Athrun is not as good a pilot as Kira(note he is exceptional but he's never managed to beat Kira in any of there fights).
.

Ok, it seems ur fandom for Kira has surpassed reality and u need to rewatch Gundam Seed. After Ahtrun and Kira go seed mode one on another Athrun manages to grab Strike, too bad he didn't have power and do self-destruct and well I can't see how he survived inside Strike when Athrun got so messed up when he was running.

And maybe you wanna watch after Athrun get together with Kira and they go to space to stop war with Eternal, AA and others. Well, in most of the battles on space I just saw Athrun doing most of the job (he was the one fighting the drugies more than Kira), Kira almost getting owned some parts, Athrun saving Kira... Well, I don't see your argument working.

Your point can be the episode Freedom owns Saviour, but as you can see it was Seed mode x non-Seed mode, this gives one hell of advantage. And I think that was purely fandom, giving Kira lovers some lolipops for em to feel happy "Oh yeah our Kira kicked Athrun's ass! Woopie! Ill buy another Freedom toy!"

No, I am no Athrun fan. I just realized that in Seed Athrun is as good of a pilot as Kira. They just give more screen time to the main character and his gundam, which was Kira. And no, I don't think Kira is the main character of GSD.

[Marcis]

I will add my opinion about Fukuda.

Seems that GSD is very ... unfocused show.It goes along it's course and then after couple of episodes it starts to waver off course. This trend appeared after episode 15 i think. After that -EDITED- episode. It got very bad after episode 34 as Terra mentioned.
One or two good episodes and then show wanders away .. why? To collect info from online polls and fanboy opinions? Really, it seems that fan opinions dictate the course of show. The show's pace is jagged. Now we get half-recap episode about Meer who's real life picture seems to be low-res screenshot of Myung from Macross Plus. Does Originality muse left Fukuda's room completely??? Seems so.
We still don't get much info on Destiny plan and we have only 3 eps to go. Scripting seems very unfocused here, if they want to see how it can be possible to switch between old cast and new one i suggest they watch Zeta - perfectly done. No wonder second Zeta movie tickets are sold out already.
This show is unfocused - i think this summarizes GSD the best.

[aznroyale]

the only thing i hate is that he kills some of the good characters. like Henie, and Nicole

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: DDBen
First off I'd like to state killing Kira would be pointless and is only being called for by those who have obvious hatred for him for any number of reasons.

Says the living anti-Shinn. [img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]

Seriously though, shut the hell up. People here are giving educated and well thought-out reasons to why Kira's death would have improved the series, which is a lot more than you have provided in your countless number of anti-Shinn rants.

[Jurojin]

Originally posted by: DDBen
@ Jurojin

First off my bad on calling you PSJ I was posing in 2 topics and made a error due to you having virtually the same opionion. However reguardless of that I was at fault in doing that and will modify the post to correct the error.

As for the flaming lets see

now as for flaming goes your initial comment as follows would be the initial flaming that took place.

I forgot that arguing this point with you is like like bashing my head into a brick wall. It gets nowhere and just ends up giving me brain trauma. You're not going to let go of your Kira plushie and your "Fukada pwns j00" poster, and I'm not going to change my opinion that Kira should have kicked the bucket, for good reason, when he faced off with Shinn.

That was followed by me suggesting you remove your head from your arse however that was not the focus of the post. I didn't comment about anyone flaming until you continued it in the next post by making both a false quote which was nothing but derogatory and offered NOTHING in relation to the conversation at hand.

So using imagry to state continued frustration with you is considered flaming, but you telling me to pull my head out of my ass is not. Ok gotcha.

Idiot.

And as for the "false quote": I'm sorry, I accredited Mark Twain with it, it's supposed to have been done by anonymous. My bad. The empaphasis was on the fact that you refuse to listen to anyone on this subject despite being showed how flawed and fukada-like your logic has been. Even so, that was only the first part of what I said, and not the focus of it. the rest of it, several paragraphs worth, was related to the topic, Fukada and his suckiness.

Gundam is NOT supposed to be equivilant to American Idol.

Edit:

http://www.donaldsensing.com/2...teach-pig-to-sing.html

Argh! Google is t3h suck.

Here's the quote. I'll give it to Heinlein.

[AtHRunOwNZaLL]

Originally posted by: DDBen

Athrun is not as good a pilot as Kira(note he is exceptional but he's never managed to beat Kira in any of there fights).

wtf are you fucking kidding with me? athrun totally owned kira in episode 30 of gundam seed, i don't know what your smoking but athrun grabbed onto him with aegis then if he still had ps armor then he would've totally killed kira but he self-destructed and that still should've killed kira so athrun won, i think you are blinded by your love for kira

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: AtHRunOwNZaLL
wtf are you fucking kidding with me? athrun totally owned kira in episode 30 of gundam seed, i don't know what your smoking but athrun grabbed onto him with aegis then if he still had ps armor then he would've totally killed kira but he self-destructed and that still should've killed kira so athrun won, i think you are blinded by your love for kira

Yet Athrun didn't kill Kira and both of the Gundams were destroyed. That fight was a tie. Your also not talking a 1 on 1 fight for either party considering Kira however killed another Gundam while Athrun only took out a skygrasper. I would say that fight ended with 2 Gundams for Kira 1.5 for Athrun.

The only fanboy here is you which is stated by your name.

@Jurojin removing your head from your arse was flaming it was also a suggestion(and as a side note it was also imagry as one who's head is stuck up there arse can obviously not see anything aside from the inside of said arse). I responded after your second flame to knock off the pointless flaming not to your first. Also why don't you try posting something with a point instead. Currently all your doing is ranting. Now if you really think that killing off your main character every once in a while is good for a story they I suggest you write a show that does so and see how well it sells. No show is sustainable without its star/stars. What would Naruto be if they killed him off and moved on, or Kenshin without well Kenshin. In the end if the author in the end the only long running show where I can think of this being attempted was Dragon Ball Z, where Gohan was suppose to be the main character but the fans hated him so much they were forced to keep bringing Goku back from the dead to keep it running. All this ammount to is a even worse story then you get by working within the worth you created.

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: DDBen


All of that being said knock off the pointless flaming PSJ it will get you nowhere and this is a thread for rants reguardless.

So how should i take this? You think about me that much? Don't know why my name is related with pointless flaming though, i have never flamed pointlessly.

On a more serious note, DDBen give it up. Anyone could out do your essay long posts with one sentance and have been doing so since this discussion started.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: PSJ
So how should i take this? You think about me that much? Don't know why my name is related with pointless flaming though, i have never flamed pointlessly.

On a more serious note, DDBen give it up. Anyone could out do your essay long posts with one sentance and have been doing so since this discussion started.

You should take that earlier comment as a random typo induced by being at work.

As for your second statement I'm still waiting for you to post anything that has any logic behind it instead of simply posting random feelings that would neither improve the story or make anyone involved with it anymore money. In the end the driving force behind gundam is prophiet and if you can't accept that then you shouldn't waste your time watching.

As a side note if you bothered to read anything the only thing I stated that was contested at all was weather or not they should have had Shinn kill Kira.

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: PSJ
So how should i take this? You think about me that much? Don't know why my name is related with pointless flaming though, i have never flamed pointlessly.

On a more serious note, DDBen give it up. Anyone could out do your essay long posts with one sentance and have been doing so since this discussion started.

You should take that earlier comment as a random typo induced by being at work.

As for your second statement I'm still waiting for you to post anything that has any logic behind it instead of simply posting random feelings that would neither improve the story or make anyone involved with it anymore money. In the end the driving force behind gundam is prophiet and if you can't accept that then you shouldn't waste your time watching.

As a side note if you bothered to read anything the only thing I stated that was contested at all was weather or not they should have had Shinn kill Kira.

And that little part where you dismissed everyone's opinions & thoughts about Kira living/dying by calling them Kira haters...

[Jurojin]

The problem with your whole point DDBen is quite simple. Kira should not be the main character of GSD. Fukada is an idiot, and did what the Kira-fans/psychos and the $$ from sales suggested- keep Kira in there.

But Kira was the star of Seed, his only role in GSD so far has been "OMFG PWNZORS!" Killing Kira off would have only helped GSD. Maybe if they did it before 34, to give more time for the impact of it all to sink in. Like, during the 1st Lacus assassination attempt, he takes a fatal bullet for her, which moves Lacus to do other things, secret war against ZAFT or something. Or switch roles, Lacus gets killed because Kira couldn't protect her, then he goes all cyborg with Freedom and starts going after all ZAFT forces, forcing a final confrontation with Athrun/Shinn, with Kira dying, then moving forward with the Destiny Plan et al.


Shinn is supposed to be whom GSD was supposed to focus on, or even maybe have Athrun be the focus. But because of following the sales model instead of good gripping plot, GSD is FUBAR.

Kenshin w/o Kenshin is not Kenshin.
Samurai Deeper Kyo w/o Kyo is not SDK.
Gundam w/o Amuro is not Gundam.
Gundam Seed w/o Kira is not Gundam Seed.

Gundam Seed Destiny w/o Kira, however, should still be able to be GSD. Not @ this point because of Fuckup-ada, but it should have been.





And I still stand that what I first directed towards you was not a flame.

"Pull your head out of your arse" is a direct flame, not imagery.

Trying to dance around it isn't going to help you.

Kthnxbi.


Edit:

Honestly, as far as Gundam Seed goes, they could have killed Kira, and focused on Athrun since, well, he's also a main character of Seed. Would have made for a completely different ending and turn of events, but, realistically, they could have pulled it off, since I'm sure that Athrun has a pretty stable and large fanbase all his own. (if we follow your profit based logic)