Phase 46 Discussion

[Takeda Natsuke]

I kinda wished Cagalli was in that episode... Not for Athrun, but I'd laugh my ass off if Cagalli punched Meer like she did to (crap his freakin name has slipped my mind. It's that son of the fat guy in orb... crap). To be honest, Lacus and Cagalli would be like good cop/bad cop. Before, Cagalli was good cop with all the "no fighting or I'll cry!" and Lacus was like "We must!". But now Cagalli seems like someone who would be like, "I'll shove my foot up your ass SO high you'd be spitting toenails out of your mouth!" and Lacus is like, "I don't want to kill anyone."

Blah blah blah....

Athrun pwns. For a while I was questioning who the main character REALLY is in GSD since they've given Shinn about 5 minutes to develop as a character and not as a fighter. I suddenly think that Athrun is the protoganist of the story now, since all the shit going on revolves around him. The story would have been so much better if Athrun was the main character, because it fits and I like the name "Gundam SEED Justice" for a title. It's more original! lol

But I do happen to like the Shinn/Luna development more. They're slowly bridging a gap b/w Luna and Rey, which is what I think is the best way to bridge a gap b/w Shinn and Rey, as well. I believe Luna will be the central role to Shinn's defection, making her a central character for the final episodes.

I sort of wish the next episode would be Gundam SEED Destiny - EDITED Episode 2 instead of taking up an episode. It's such a waste and I frankly don't see what's the point. They never did that to Flay... But then again, Flay was just a moron... yes.. moron is the word...

And once again, Yzak and Dearka have played their part and are gone. I see no reason why they would defect right now, but I have the opinion that Dearka will defect first, if it ever happens.

....Kira can't shoot for shit without an MS. He's like Luna on an MS, they just can't aim.

As my friend told me when he was watching...

"Damn.. I could have crapped a better series."

[Strike Freedom]

LOL, funny stuff there Natsuke, about the Cagalli and Lacus part.

I do agree with your point about Athuran being the main guy in the series. If you look back, he's probably had more screen time and an role than Kira and Shinn. If he is, then does that mean that he dies??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

[Terracosmo]

Kira is obviously just the poster boy of Destiny since he's the most popular character. There really is no other reason, because as you guys say, Athrun is really the one being focused on all the time. Athrun was seen almost constantly in Seed too, making him the ultimate Seed lead. While I'm not a big fan of either of the 3 main chars, at least Athrun sort of develops a bit - thought it felt like he was back at square 1 during most of Destiny. (then again that applies to all characters... except maybe Yzak & Dearka).

Which also makes me think, why the fuck do people like a one-dimensional piece of shit moron like Kira?

[masamuneehs]

^^^^^^^^^
YES! FUCK KIRA! How boring and washed-up can a character get in the span of 50 episodes? How static and immobile can his character become while he is constantly proved to be infallible and invincible by a franchise that made its name in portraying all people as humans, with human strengths and human weaknesses?

I liked Kira alot in Seed, although I sort of lost a small amount when he started spouting his babble about not killing people in wars. His role in Destiny has made me utterly hate him. However, I blame Lacus Clyne and her constant role as -I'm-Always-So-Right-&-MorallyUpstanding-&-You-Should-Listen-To-Me- woman...

Athrun is too big of a pussy in Destiny for me to really like. It is true that he has the most development, even if its mostly going back and doubting whether he should do what he is doing, but I feel like his inability to act constipates the series and parts and I can't believe how utterly useless he can be one minute and then take charge the next.

Shinn is a great character because he is human. He exudes flaws and weakness just as much as he does confidence and power. Unfortunatley I feel like the dialogue he has is constantly stilted to portray him quite narrowly, and we're too often left to interpet his questioning of his lifestyle and Dullindal (and Rey) for ourselves via his facial expressions and body language. Lets hope they don't totally abandon Shinn in these final 3 episodes...

[Kovash]

I notice a distinct trend here;

1 - Random Persons complain about the shallow characters and plot points of Destiny.
2 - One of Three people (myself included) defend them using valid points.
3 - The people who complained completely ignore us and keep complaining, without offering ANY points.
4 - One of tghe same Three people attempt another defence (which is realy the first defence worded differently)
5- We get ignored again.

So I'll save myself a bit of bother, I suppose.

*Insert long-winded, general defence for the character of Kira, Lacus, Athrun, Shinn and Destiny as a whole.*



Note: 'I hate Lacus' is not a point of argument, neither is 'Kira cannot be beaten outside of a plotline'

Note2: I almost feel like ranting about how the 'Kira cannot be beaten outside of a plotline' is such a TERRIBLE reason for hating the show, but I guess I'll just be ignored some more.

Note3: Thanks to 'KapsLocked' - no annoyance is directed at you.

Note4: I'm not asking everyone to just start loving the show because I say it's good, but rather consider the reasons you don't like it, some of you might find them lacking. (oh god... I sound like Lacus >_< )

EDIT: I changed Anger to Annoyance, since I don't acctually get angry, just frustrated that no one seems to listen. And I added Note4.

[alukard]

Kira is not one dimensional. His development is stunted. The lead will always get more attention from the director & audience alike. If you want character development for Kira go back to GS and dont tell me that Kira has no character. Some people portrait him as a scene hog taking the main role away from Shinn and saying it's director's posterboy and such and i agree. The more Kira appears in GSD the more he will be resented. You know what will make people even happier? If the Archangel exits with a bang; that all the cameo characters except their favorites (like Yzak & Dearka who didnt interfere with Shinn in any way) get blown up by Minerva and her crew by the end of the show. This is what you call cameo syndrome; some enjoy seeing the story continue into the next chapter & some say it kills the story. It's true that after a while as you know someone more & more you don't really want to know more. I'm going to be go Doctor Phil on you for just a second: people feel 'married' to Kira and Cagalli and Athrun and Lacus or whoever their favorite couples were; yes, even Dearka and Yzak, however strange that may sound. Now just seeing Kira makes them puke & want to severe this & wish they have a heart attack or something bad happens. That's the only reason why i think people don't like Kira not because he's bland. Im sure after going through a war that there's no doubt left for Kira on how to prevent it so he seem to be a know-it-all and doesn't say much. Heck even Shinn seems overbearing because the one word he seem to say the most is "sure" or "die logos" or "you dont know jack" when Shinn himself is carrying his sense of "justice" with this crap and blur any sense of reality.

Of course Kira feels strange and distant because he is not the protagonist and for the reason stated earlier. I like Kira because he shed tears when he kills an enemy. Shinn exudes flaws yes; his character is full of holes. He's not even human. The only few instances were i can relate to him was when he lost his family. He kills Orb's general and was like "who's that guy?" Even if he forgot who is who im sure there are pictures of the guy whose flagship he's after. It's been only a one or two year and Shinn forgot? Poor grunt he's just a puppet for Dulindal.

Even OJ Simpson seem innocent as a lamb when he cried about his crimes in his friend's lap as his 4x4 cruises down the freeway with all of America watching this disgraceful admittance of guilt. Shinn had none of that and the only voice of reason that 'woked' this numb-skull up in his premature view of justice was Athrun's (the current pilot of IJustice) 'ghost.' Shinn goes after people left & right with no sense of reasoning of his own screaming his same blahs "you're annoying," "you don't know nothing about me," "Don't get in my way, im after Logos" or simply just "die Kira lover." Wow i can sure relate to that lord drama of dramas of adolescent testosterone infused banter. Athrun was the only character that made sense. I can't use the you know who as an example because the crowd of Shinn lovers will shred me to pieces so that im hanging onto the only other person who people dont target particularly when they're siding with Shinn.

Shinn's reasoning was like I got a bigger club than yours. Until you can prove otherwise, im better than you.

[DDBen]

As far as the main characters of GSD basically we have them following the 3 most basic paths of developement a character can have in a sequal.

Kira in seed was the ultimate quardinator really the end all of the series from start to finish. Yes he developed a lot in GS and eventually he settled on being who he is now. His character is there as basically a way to measure new characters strengths and to please the fans. In the end he isn't a big enough character to develope as his role is already to well established to change.

Athrun is the character who people were unhappy with at the end of Gundam Seed. In the end he really ended up the same as he started. In both GS and GSD he has almost EXACTLY the same developement. from start to finish so maybe this time he will end up figuring out who he is and stop the cycle he's in.

Shinn is the new guy who essentially has to improve during the series in order for there to be one. Without a new character there is no reason for a new series as we could just go rewatch seed and be a lot happier. The downside with Shinn is he's really the unwanted hero. We already have Kira as a main good guy. Also we already have Athrun as the main good guy who can't pick a side. So this leaves Shinn to be the bad guy who eventually finds redemption. Essentially he has Athrun's role from GS but on a scale that seems so unimportant and petty compaired to having your dad be the main figure for Zaft. Essentially Shinn is the bastard child of Fllay and Athrun. His point is to be hated and quite possibly to have to die to achieve redemption. So people will hate him until the end reguardless and if he doesn't die we just end up feeling cheated.

[Naruto_RNG]

I love this series regardless of how many recaps it had. Kira rules. I watched 46 again did u guys hear what kira said when he lost to impulse in freedom. I couldn't stop laughing. I wanted to see the face of all the kira haters at that moment, must of been priceless. lol. But does any one have a pic of dullindals final gundam. I heared it's mother of all gundams but it looks simple.

[heero]

Not that I hate Kira (he's in my banner and my avatar is SF) but what he said about losing to Impulse, it just sounded like he's making an excuse so he wouldn't look so bad. I'm sure if it was Shinn who lost and he made the same excuse, you would say "TATS BULLSHIT! YOU SO LOST SO STOP TRYING TO MAKE SOME LAME EXCUSE" [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] And even if what Kira said was true, still didnt make him look any better for losing. It's like failing an exam and you say "tats cause its too hard". Even if it was true, you'd still look dumb in the eyes of others.

[ArcZero]

it would be funny if the end of the last episode was "to be continued" and then a gundam seed ova comes out. (^_^)

[Gangrel]

I do understand some might like the series as it is. But I have tryed many times to rewatch some episodes, give some consideration about some characters, but as more I watch the more I want to grab a gun and shoot Fukuda. They simply forgot about some characters and their development, like Lunamaria is a failed character for the lack of screen time, so is Talia and many others. They seem to just see what fans want like "OH FUCK! WE WANT KIRA!" and so they forget about Shinn development as a character and he's stuck on the same page of "STFU! ILL KILL U! U KILLED STELLAR! MAYU!!!"

While Seed u had much more detailed characters, much more original drama, the end didn't feel like now, that they don't know what they doing with the series. Seriously, a recap about Meer is really gonna suck, there is no intense feeling, everything is sooooo lame. Can't think that in 3 episodes it's gonna end...

[heero]

Originally posted by: Gangrel
I do understand some might like the series as it is. But I have tryed many times to rewatch some episodes, give some consideration about some characters, but as more I watch the more I want to grab a gun and shoot Fukuda. They simply forgot about some characters and their development, like Lunamaria is a failed character for the lack of screen time, so is Talia and many others. They seem to just see what fans want like "OH FUCK! WE WANT KIRA!" and so they forget about Shinn development as a character and he's stuck on the same page of "STFU! ILL KILL U! U KILLED STELLAR! MAYU!!!"

While Seed u had much more detailed characters, much more original drama, the end didn't feel like now, that they don't know what they doing with the series. Seriously, a recap about Meer is really gonna suck, there is no intense feeling, everything is sooooo lame. Can't think that in 3 episodes it's gonna end...

Agree to everything u said. Lmao "STFU! ILL KILL U! U KILLED STELLAR! MAYU!!!"

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: alukard
Kira is not one dimensional.

In Destiny, yes he is fucking one dimensional. In Seed, it can be argued.

Shinn's reasoning was like I got a bigger club than yours. Until you can prove otherwise, im better than you.

Until you can write posts that people actually can read because they aren't so fucking long and full of things people already know that you think, anyone's better than you.

Also, change your avatar. No animated ones allowed.

[alukard]

Avatar changed. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[rockmanj]

now, now, a recap on the formerly fugly meer cant be that bad, and by the way, wasn't there someone in GS with the last name campbell...i cant seem to remember; oh and anyone know where i can find a quality athuran or luna buddy icon?? id make it myself, but im way too lazy and busy [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

[LokeXero]

Originally posted by: DDBen
As far as the main characters of GSD basically we have them following the 3 most basic paths of developement a character can have in a sequal.

Kira in seed was the ultimate quardinator really the end all of the series from start to finish. Yes he developed a lot in GS and eventually he settled on being who he is now. His character is there as basically a way to measure new characters strengths and to please the fans. In the end he isn't a big enough character to develope as his role is already to well established to change.

Athrun is the character who people were unhappy with at the end of Gundam Seed. In the end he really ended up the same as he started. In both GS and GSD he has almost EXACTLY the same developement. from start to finish so maybe this time he will end up figuring out who he is and stop the cycle he's in.

Shinn is the new guy who essentially has to improve during the series in order for there to be one. Without a new character there is no reason for a new series as we could just go rewatch seed and be a lot happier. The downside with Shinn is he's really the unwanted hero. We already have Kira as a main good guy. Also we already have Athrun as the main good guy who can't pick a side. So this leaves Shinn to be the bad guy who eventually finds redemption. Essentially he has Athrun's role from GS but on a scale that seems so unimportant and petty compaired to having your dad be the main figure for Zaft. Essentially Shinn is the bastard child of Fllay and Athrun. His point is to be hated and quite possibly to have to die to achieve redemption. So people will hate him until the end reguardless and if he doesn't die we just end up feeling cheated.

For once you didnt post a crap opinion...I agree which is another first...

[Takeda Natsuke]

I don't see what the point is on bashing and defending a character. After all, it's not like the character is suddenly going to come to life and cry over how much people hate/love him. But anyways, here's my input:

-Kira sucks. No, not because he's a freakin god modder and not because he got n00bed by Shinn. He just sucks. Five minutes of him admitting he lost to Impulse does NOT count as "character development". On a personal level, I HATE him, he who acts all-knowingly and preaches, yes, PREACHES his words like he's always right. Besides, his "wise" sayings are just too freakin obvious. "Nobody wants to fight" ....no shit, sherlock. I liked the old Kira better, because he was human. He was manipulated, he suffered, he had human-like qualities that I personally liked. But suddenly in Destiny, he wasn't being manipulated, he sudden knew everything that was going on, he wasn't suffering, he was so freakin calm and collected it wasn't believable. The Lacus and Kira pair suddenly seems so unreal, more substance than style, they were TOO perfect. Sure, Kira IS the ultimate coordinator, but I suddenly realize that the ultimate coordinator is the ultimately overrated. Hell, I STILL think Moblie Suit Gundam W is the worst anime, but hell, even Heero was more beliveable than Kira was.

-Athrun PWNS. Ok, so he's developing the same way as in SEED. But let's look at Shinn. It's been 46 episodes and he STILL, STILLLLLLLL has not come to terms with his family's death. After TWO FREAKIN YEARS he STILL has not come to terms with it. Ok, he lost his family. One year of grieving is OKAY. Two years means you MUST MOOOOOVE OOOOOOOON YOU FREAKIN PSYCHOTIC MORON!!! I can see the Stellar thing being used for his rage, but have you realized that he only remembers Stellar before he goes SEED, but before all that and after his transformation all he thinks about is protecting Luna? That's sort of low, Shinn.

-Shinn makes the old GS Kira look like a manly man... ya freakin pansy!!!!

-Rey gets gloomier and gloomier eeeevery episode. Have you realized that he frowns more? lol

-The Archangel crew has absolutely NO CONTENTION with the Archangel crew. For one thing, I know most of the Archangel's crew names, and they've all had some sort of development. The Minerva crew has Captain Gladys, the moron Vice-Captain Arthuer, and those two repairer kids who have done JACKSH*T on the show. Meyrin is ARCHANGEL! YAY! The one crew member on Minerva I liked is now on the CREW I like!

-Neo is a perv. Welcome back, Mwu! ^_^

-KIRA CAN'T AIM, HIS GUNDAM WITH AN AUTO-LOCKING SYSTEM CAN. And LET ME REMIND YOU that Kira has about 10 or more guns shooting SIMULTANEOUSLY, so OF COURSE HE'LL HIT SOMETHING.

-Neo + Purple Uniform + "I Love GOOOOLD!" Akatsuki = A gay, gay, GAY man.

[Strike Freedom]

Originally posted by: Takeda Natsuke
I don't see what the point is on bashing and defending a character. After all, it's not like the character is suddenly going to come to life and cry over how much people hate/love him. But anyways, here's my input:

-Kira sucks. No, not because he's a freakin god modder and not because he got n00bed by Shinn. He just sucks. Five minutes of him admitting he lost to Impulse does NOT count as "character development". On a personal level, I HATE him, he who acts all-knowingly and preaches, yes, PREACHES his words like he's always right. Besides, his "wise" sayings are just too freakin obvious. "Nobody wants to fight" ....no shit, sherlock. I liked the old Kira better, because he was human. He was manipulated, he suffered, he had human-like qualities that I personally liked. But suddenly in Destiny, he wasn't being manipulated, he sudden knew everything that was going on, he wasn't suffering, he was so freakin calm and collected it wasn't believable. The Lacus and Kira pair suddenly seems so unreal, more substance than style, they were TOO perfect. Sure, Kira IS the ultimate coordinator, but I suddenly realize that the ultimate coordinator is the ultimately overrated. Hell, I STILL think Moblie Suit Gundam W is the worst anime, but hell, even Heero was more beliveable than Kira was.

-Athrun PWNS. Ok, so he's developing the same way as in SEED. But let's look at Shinn. It's been 46 episodes and he STILL, STILLLLLLLL has not come to terms with his family's death. After TWO FREAKIN YEARS he STILL has not come to terms with it. Ok, he lost his family. One year of grieving is OKAY. Two years means you MUST MOOOOOVE OOOOOOOON YOU FREAKIN PSYCHOTIC MORON!!! I can see the Stellar thing being used for his rage, but have you realized that he only remembers Stellar before he goes SEED, but before all that and after his transformation all he thinks about is protecting Luna? That's sort of low, Shinn.

-Shinn makes the old GS Kira look like a manly man... ya freakin pansy!!!!

-Rey gets gloomier and gloomier eeeevery episode. Have you realized that he frowns more? lol

-The Archangel crew has absolutely NO CONTENTION with the Archangel crew. For one thing, I know most of the Archangel's crew names, and they've all had some sort of development. The Minerva crew has Captain Gladys, the moron Vice-Captain Arthuer, and those two repairer kids who have done JACKSH*T on the show. Meyrin is ARCHANGEL! YAY! The one crew member on Minerva I liked is now on the CREW I like!

-Neo is a perv. Welcome back, Mwu! ^_^

-KIRA CAN'T AIM, HIS GUNDAM WITH AN AUTO-LOCKING SYSTEM CAN. And LET ME REMIND YOU that Kira has about 10 or more guns shooting SIMULTANEOUSLY, so OF COURSE HE'LL HIT SOMETHING.

-Neo + Purple Uniform + "I Love GOOOOLD!" Akatsuki = A gay, gay, GAY man.

Woah, woah, woah....this post goes out to all haters in general....GET A LIFE! Now, when someone makes an argument such as "I don't understand why ppl hate..." or "what's the point...." or so on and so forth, and then goes against their argument by bitching out a character, it is something called being a hypocrite. Now, don't misunderstand, I am not saying u can't bitch and moan, sure u can. Just do it without being a hypocrite. U really damage ur ethos as a writer.

Now, Takeda, I know ur partly speaking out of anger (and since ur one sided in this view it won't change anything with what I type) but I intend to rebuttal some of ur statements.

Kira is a pretty damn good pilot. Kira is a tech savvy guy. But what is this about Kira can't aim? Kira can aim. He's shown he could do it in GS with Strike and even in GSD with Strike Rouge in episode 39. so please don't come up with that HiMAT aiming crap. I'm tired of ppl who hate Kira just using this episode and interpretting it in the way it benefits their little minds. Facts are always distorted by people. So what did we see in this episode. Kira did not fire his gun to kill, maintaining his no kill policy. Kira shot a gernade after a couple of attempts (let's c someone try to do something like that, shooting a gernade is much more difficult than a human being which is by far a larger target). Kira brought up a valid point about not attacking Shinn. WATCH the episode and unless ur BLIND physically or because of ur one-sided view, u will realize that Kira was NEVER serious with SHINN. Seriously, look at the circumstances Kira was in. AA was being shot at, Cagalli was the most important person to protect at the moment. Kira was not fighting back but trying to buy time to get the AA out of danger. He sacraficed his Sword for the safety of the AA. KIRA said it himself, it is self evident in the episode and ATHURAN even said that he was surprised that Kira lost. Bottomline, Kira lost. Bottomline, Kira was not serious with Shinn. If u look at the following episodes there is proof that Kira can handle Shinn (i just wish he would be completely serious with Shinn instead of dicking around). Kira handled Shinn and Rey pretty well for that time too. So please, if you hate Kira that's fine, but don't create ur own facts as u did in ur argument.

[heero]

Originally posted by: Takeda Natsuke
I don't see what the point is on bashing and defending a character

Wats the point of your looooong post if you question why you are doing it in the first place -.-

[PSJ]

Mwu is not back yet. Neo still calls himself Neo and believes that to be his name. You could see that in ep 46 when Kira said "you're late Mwu-san" he didn't like being called Mwu. The only reason he accepts it is because he can sleep with Ramiasu and pilot Akatsuki. Neo Lorrnoke is still Neo Lorrnoke, Mwu La Fraga died when he protected the Archangel back in SEED.

Well that end my Neo-Mwu rant i guess.