phase 44 discussion

[Darknodin]

Okay... several things

one... people bashing luna because she can't aim? I would want to see you try to aim a shuttle speeding away from you at several Gs through a plume of smoke! this wasn't a horrible display of marksmanship... it was the exact opposite, the fact that she was able to fire this close to this rather small shuttle proves that she is quite the marksman...

second... it seems that dullindal was faking to be upset, if you look at the sequence of events you'll see him simply looking at other people's reactions then asking questions in an "angry" tone...

third... i don't think that ALL januarius or december colonies have been destroyed...

[Death13a]

If you see the 1/2 part of Plant was hit meaning the other half should be still be operational

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Darknodin
Okay... several things

one... people bashing luna because she can't aim? I would want to see you try to aim a shuttle speeding away from you at several Gs through a plume of smoke! this wasn't a horrible display of marksmanship... it was the exact opposite, the fact that she was able to fire this close to this rather small shuttle proves that she is quite the marksman...

second... it seems that dullindal was faking to be upset, if you look at the sequence of events you'll see him simply looking at other people's reactions then asking questions in an "angry" tone...

third... i don't think that ALL januarius or december colonies have been destroyed...

lol this just bothers me, you dont speed away at G... Gs are g force meaning how much gravity the person is taking. its not a measure of speed, but a measure of force. sorry im being anal, that just bothered me alot.

[Terracosmo]

Strike Freedom:
Um...First at Terra, Athuran isn't to blame, they're (him and Kira) defending ORB. I mean, would you let a bunch of ppl just come and destroy your home just cause they're looking for one guy, highly doubt it.

So? I was just stating why Shinn was blaming Athrun. I never said they (Kira & Athrun) didn't have a valid reason to be there.

Aznroyale:
i thought she couldnt shoot it down cause the shuttle was heading into space and as she was going up the pressure is messing her up

Probably, but she's still the worst pilot of the three.

Darknodin:
one... people bashing luna because she can't aim? I would want to see you try to aim a shuttle speeding away from you at several Gs through a plume of smoke! this wasn't a horrible display of marksmanship... it was the exact opposite, the fact that she was able to fire this close to this rather small shuttle proves that she is quite the marksman...

You are either a huge Luna fanboy or a comedian. You mean to say that MISSING the shuttle proves that you are "quite the marksman"? Being "quite the marksman" would mean that you can take the shuttle down wherever it is. It's not like they ignore specific ranges during their training.

In the end, though, this is pointless because the real reason Djibril got away was plot device.

[Curium]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo

Darknodin:
one... people bashing luna because she can't aim? I would want to see you try to aim a shuttle speeding away from you at several Gs through a plume of smoke! this wasn't a horrible display of marksmanship... it was the exact opposite, the fact that she was able to fire this close to this rather small shuttle proves that she is quite the marksman...

You are either a huge Luna fanboy or a comedian. You mean to say that MISSING the shuttle proves that you are "quite the marksman"? Being "quite the marksman" would mean that you can take the shuttle down wherever it is. It's not like they ignore specific ranges during their training.

In the end, though, this is pointless because the real reason Djibril got away was plot device.

Impulse's new bumper sticker

"Bumper Sticker - To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target."

[Strike Freedom]

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
Is it just me or does anyone else notice that Rey knows too much about Requiem without even being informed about it. If you ask me, I believe the Chairman and Rey knew about that weapon and its intended use by Djibril.

That is an interesting thought. Lets say you are right, could it be that Dullindal wanted Aprilus taken out with the entire PLANT Supreme Council? That would increase his power and pretty much wipe out anyone that could question his authority. Maybe the only reason he was shocked and upset was because Requium missed and took out a bunch of Civilian colonies.

Yes, I agree. In fact, I am saying that he did know, I was just saying it in a sarcastic manner. It was obvious when you saw the Chairman after the attack, he looks around and then suddenly acts enraged...umm...can someone say BS! Him and Rey both know about Requiem and are using it to their advantage. This was a part of the Chairman's plan.

[Mae]

Definately a good helping of Brave New World thrown in there. And has anyone seen Gattaca? (same basic concept, genetics determines your future, underrated movie IMO). And while we're at it lets build a LAZER on the MOOOON (an accesory no good supervillain is ever without). Seriously, though, it seems rediculously vulnerable. I mean, ZAFT already destroyed one of the aiming mechanisms. And that leaves it pointing... at Earth?

I was disappointed by how meekly Meer accepted her fate... I was hoping for a gun And I agree Djibril was nicely evil in this ep. No appologies or excuses from him. And the chairman on his throne was nice indeed. Overall a decent set-up episode, and it looks like a fight for next week

[Yukimura]

What is the AA crew thinking... Djibril just blew up a crazy amount of civies just because he felt like it, and what are they talking about three minutes later? Lets stop the Chairman. Now we the viewers know there's something screwy about Dullindal, but how much unnessecary murder has he actually ordered?


Takedown AA: He ordered a rogue paramilitary force taken down, after it interfered with and attacked his military several times causing much death and destruction

Get Djibril, screw ORB: He ordered this guy captured no matter the cost, and when the government of ORB lied about it he sent in the big guns

Take down Eternal: Hey it's a ship that was stolen after our last war, and oh it's pretty f'ing sick too maybe we shouldn't just let whoever run around with our property.

Kill Athrun: He ordered two deserters who stole an MS and were off for points unknown with plenty of secret info to be brought back or killed, one of whom was under suspicio for treason already

Kill Lacus: This is likely his handiwork but we can't really be sure. The only proof it was him was the advanced ZAFT MS's used in the attack, oh wait where's Gaia right now? I guess Eternal must be under Dullindal's control then?

Drop Junis-7: A real stretch but i'll throw it out there, once again, no proof, and unlike Kill Lacus, there's absolutely nothing we've seen that ties him to this one, but...

The bottom line for us viewers is this...Dullindal is one shady dude, and he is all about lies, deception and getting his way, as we've seen. However even we haven't seen him do anything violent that couldn't be explained. Looking at Destroy plans, lying about Lacus, etc were shady and underhanded but for all we know of his intentions he might be planning to throw a birthday party for himself after the war's over and he wants everyone to think Lacus Clyne came to his party cuz he's sooooo cool. This scenario fits with whats been happening, he wants to end the war, for a birthday celebration. That could be the Destiny Plan, his destiny is to have the most amazing B-day in all history.

My point is this, Lacus and the AA crew are leaping to tons of conclusions about Dullindal.

What do they actually know?

They know something called the Destiny Plan was wrtten in a journal in Dr. Hibiki's lab,
They know there's a fake Lacus running around with Dullindal's blessing,
They know ZAFT doesn't like them dicking around in their affairs

(Stupid ZAFT, thinking it's okay to just fight a war that it didn't start, on it's own terms w/o the AA's permission).

Now lets talk about one Lord Djibril

Accomplishments:

Leader of Blue Cosmos, i.e. self-proclaimed and proud supporter of genocide or whatever the term for wiping out animals if you assume coordinators aren't human. (Even killing all of one type of animal is pretty frowened upon as far as i know)

Ordered a huge nuclear attack on all the cities and thus civillians of PLANT
Ordered the whiole world to submit to his will directly or else die
Built the first Destroy and gave it free reign to kill anything in it's path that resisted his will
Ordered Heaven's Base to attack the Anti-Logos fleet without any diplomacy
Left Heaven's Base when the going got tough, leaving all his comrades behind to die
Used ORB as a shield and caused many soldiers unnessecary deaths in defense of their homeland
Fired a WMD at the capital of a soverign nation which was filled with thousands of civillians, missed and then complained that they'd killed the wrong civillians

And what happens on the AA bridge, Lacus divine's the Destiny plan out of her pink ass and everyone decides to go fight against Dullindal's plan that Lacus just made up. I really think that a mass murdering, egomaniacal, narssicist with a super weapon and a desire for genocide should be considered more dangerous than a shady leader whose only obvious crimes are essentially just Bill Clinton 'crimes' without the sex (except with Talia).

The AA crew seems to have a pretty huge tunnel vision lens on what's been going on in the world, no matter what has happened they have opposed ZAFT, usually under the auspices of defending ORB of course, but still, what did the chairman actually do to make them see him as this huge evil spector in their eyes.

As viewers we know something fishy is going on with Dullindal as he;s a big liar/manipulator and we know Djibril is a psycho of Hannibal Lecter level insanity, and near limitless resources.

The AA crew know's Dullindal is a liar/manipulator and might have ordered Lacus killed and they know Djibril is a psycho of Hannibal Lecter level insanity, and near limitless resources.

Now, who do you think they should be more worried about? Unless they are a bunch of self-righteous tools mad about what happens to their precious ORB and blaming others whenever the country get's itself into trouble I'd say Djibril.

[Aramis]

I hardly understood that Destiny plan stuff...but basically (at least the version that Lacus divined out of her pink ass) involves the eradication of all non-coordinators, just like in the case of PLANT's last ruler? Hmm..where have we seen this before?

[pegasussaint]

Why would AA be worried about Djibril? With what he has done just now the crew of AA knows that he is dead and even if Djibril didnt fire Requiem they all know that Zaft will get him anyways. The crew of AA are thinking about this in a realistic manner. They are a small faction, powerful but still small. Why take the risk to kill someone that you know will be taken down by a bigger opponent . Of course AA just cant join in the battle with Zaft, since they would be shot down the minute they show up. They need to survive to prevent Dullindal's plan which they have a better shot at since no one else suspects the plan.

To summarize, the crew of AA knows where Djibril stands and know that Zaft will do its best to take Djibril and the EAF down. However they are not sure where Dullindal stands and many times the unknown is what people fear the most.

Edit--The Destiny plan is to have everything in your life predetermined by you genes. A person will be genetically engineered to be a docter and thats that. If you do not follow this plan you are terminated (pretty much part of Dullindal's M.O) The reason is that if everything is predetermined they there is nothing to argue over. People in power or control are breed into those positions. It would be difficult to fight this system once it is establish because you are fighting in essence, Destiny. At least that what Lacus and the crew of AA believe

[Aramis]

Okay, but a person who's already born can't be tinkered with in such a manner, so the removal of all currently existing people will be necessary. Well, there would of course be some coordinators that'd subject to the plan and sorta become the new Ark.
*Clears his eyes from the bullshit*
SO Dullindal is in the end, an evil villainous mastermind who's going to bring about the death of everyone and must be stopped.

[Kovash]

Just a small note - Ever notice how the AA has never interfered in ANY battles (only counting the latest bash of interference in Destiny), unless it involved ORB?

The AA isn't about to jump into any large scale battle without a damn good reason. If Dillundal wants to take out Djibril, then fine but don't involve innocents or ORB, who are neutral (and thus innocents in the war).

I intended to write more, but I've been distrated and have to go - so I'll finish up later.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: Kovash
Just a small note - Ever notice how the AA has never interfered in ANY battles (only counting the latest bash of interference in Destiny), unless it involved ORB?

The AA isn't about to jump into any large scale battle without a damn good reason. If Dillundal wants to take out Djibril, then fine but don't involve innocents or ORB, who are neutral (and thus innocents in the war).

I intended to write more, but I've been distrated and have to go - so I'll finish up later.

well Orb wasn't neutral anymore when they signed that treaty with the EAF now were they? (and since that treaty isn't officially annulled they still aren't neutral)
so that argument pretty much isn't valid

[Vegita]

Originally posted by: pegasussaint
Why would AA be worried about Djibril? With what he has done just now the crew of AA knows that he is dead and even if Djibril didnt fire Requiem they all know that Zaft will get him anyways. The crew of AA are thinking about this in a realistic manner. They are a small faction, powerful but still small. Why take the risk to kill someone that you know will be taken down by a bigger opponent . Of course AA just cant join in the battle with Zaft, since they would be shot down the minute they show up. They need to survive to prevent Dullindal's plan which they have a better shot at since no one else suspects the plan.

To summarize, the crew of AA knows where Djibril stands and know that Zaft will do its best to take Djibril and the EAF down. However they are not sure where Dullindal stands and many times the unknown is what people fear the most.

Haha and if ZAFT fails to take out Dijibril before he fires the Requiem again or pulls another WMD from up his sleeve? Oops, bye bye coordinators. Guess we don't have to worry about the Destiny plan anymore since there are no coordinators and PLANT has been decimated.

[Splash!]

Originally posted by: Mae
Definately a good helping of Brave New World thrown in there. And has anyone seen Gattaca? (same basic concept, genetics determines your future, underrated movie IMO). And while we're at it lets build a LAZER on the MOOOON (an accesory no good supervillain is ever without). Seriously, though, it seems rediculously vulnerable. I mean, ZAFT already destroyed one of the aiming mechanisms. And that leaves it pointing... at Earth?

I was disappointed by how meekly Meer accepted her fate... I was hoping for a gun [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] And I agree Djibril was nicely evil in this ep. No appologies or excuses from him. And the chairman on his throne was nice indeed. Overall a decent set-up episode, and it looks like a fight for next week [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

About the part of Requiem being left with only the traget of earth....

Actually not quite. During the episode they showed that Requiem has reflectors in several random places and all destroying one reflector will mean is that they have to use an alternate path using different reflectors. Its not that all the reflectors were laid out in a single line and can only be used for one pattern of attack. Its like a whole web of them. So unless at least half of those things are destoyed at the right places, it can still target PLANT, but targeting specific colonies might pose a problem with one reflector down.
Better still, take down Requiem itself

[Black_Wing]

I blame zaft if you think about it they failed to capture dijibril when they caught all the other members of logos . SO i blame zaft and of course luna maria for missing

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor

Originally posted by: Terracosmo

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
further always blaming everyone else for what he can't protect is real IMMATURE!

Well, if Athrun didn't show up he'd most likely have time to kill Djibril off thus preventing the deaths of a gazillion people. How the hell is that immature?

Well only blaming Athrun and Shinn is immature!

Um...First at Terra, Athuran isn't to blame, they're (him and Kira) defending ORB. I mean, would you let a bunch of ppl just come and destroy your home just cause they're looking for one guy, highly doubt it. I'm pointing out that he is immature in blaming others, not trying to find Djibril. I don't mind a rebuttal but argue the point made instead of deviating from it. I'm not a shinn hater or trying to make him seem less of a pilot or what not, but truth be is that he still must grow up. The guy is blinded by rage that stems from his failure to protect his loved ones, and he directs that anger at people. Take responsibility for your actions (Stella was his fault in my opinion) and try to fight in order to protect your ideals and what you hold dear instead of fighting out of anger and hate!

Secondly, I'm not playing the blame game (directed at FelixZeroAlastor) so your comment there is unmerited. I'm only pointing out the obvious, Shinn fails to take the blame on himself and pushes it on other people. He blames Freedom for Stella's death, he blames Athuran for Djibril, he blames ORB and Cagalli's father for his family. Instead of having some NUTS and acknowledging that he cannot protect his loved ones as he wishes and trying to change that for the better, he says "it's your fault." I"m so sick and tired of that attitude, I feel like I'm watching a five year old when he goes through that bratty crap. Someone please give the guy a tissue, quit playing the damn violin for the smuck. He needs to grow up, realize that some things are out of his hands and come to terms with the lack of power he has in protecting what he holds dear. Blaming someone else for mistakes is not the answer. Athuran is NOT at fault for Djibril, he did what was right to prevent the deaths of innocent people in ORB.

I agree that it is Luna who should take partial blame since she failed to shoot down the shuttle. However, and I stress this the most, if Djibril was so important to kill then the Minerva (ZAFT) should have gone after that shuttle right away instead of resupplying and resting. And yes, there are going to be people who put up a valid argument for the Minverva. But excuses won't take you anywhere, bottom line is it's their fault, even Rey said it in this episode.

[Black_Wing]

What really creeps me out the most the chairmans gay smile he reminds of micheal jackson alot. Alot of things odnt make sense. I think te chairman is evil and rey si indeed the the son of klueze raised by the chairman or well a clone.

Shinn takes aprisoner fromt he eaf then attcks members in his own crew run away to the enemy line then returned the enemy back only to go kill more people. Not to mention he launched without the captains command and is but in the brigg for what one day and gets a medal ? Mean while athrun disagrees with the chairmans plans slightly then gets hunted done by all of zaft for doing what ? Overall it seems dum that well destiny is well looking exactly like seed was around the same time. Who writes this perpetual stuff. The AA is cool and the captian does have the milf factor and I look forward for them to pwing some more. It was good yazk again and deakra. It seems liek he was demoted though beacuse i never see him in a red coad only in the green uniform which is lower than the red. Just like good old times . Hopes they survive 2 more epsiodes eh

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: PSJ
Am i the only one who enjoy the two badguys looking bad? Dullindal sitting on his throne at the end was awesome. And Djibril fails a bit when his god damn weapon can't even hit target but it was those useless motherfuckers that was supposed to be calculating the coordinates. He was still badass when he said that he wasn't a coward or a dreamer. Man you can't trust subordinates, just look at Luna she can't even hit a shuttle that isn't trying to evade when she can hit mobile suits right in the cockpit when they do all they can to kill her and evade.

You do realise the only reason that requim missed was the Jule Squade shot out the thruster before the last section that was needed to aim was fully inplace. so essentially the one at fault for the civilian deaths was Deaka and had nothing to do with a miscalculation.

[PSJ]

Fuck that it was windam pilots who can't fight properly and couldn't protect the reflector. You really don't see when something isn't serious.

[Splash!]

Originally posted by: Black_Wing
I blame zaft if you think about it they failed to capture dijibril when they caught all the other members of logos . SO i blame zaft and of course luna maria for missing

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor

Originally posted by: Terracosmo

Originally posted by: Strike Freedom
further always blaming everyone else for what he can't protect is real IMMATURE!

Well, if Athrun didn't show up he'd most likely have time to kill Djibril off thus preventing the deaths of a gazillion people. How the hell is that immature?

Well only blaming Athrun and Shinn is immature!

Um...First at Terra, Athuran isn't to blame, they're (him and Kira) defending ORB. I mean, would you let a bunch of ppl just come and destroy your home just cause they're looking for one guy, highly doubt it. I'm pointing out that he is immature in blaming others, not trying to find Djibril. I don't mind a rebuttal but argue the point made instead of deviating from it. I'm not a shinn hater or trying to make him seem less of a pilot or what not, but truth be is that he still must grow up. The guy is blinded by rage that stems from his failure to protect his loved ones, and he directs that anger at people. Take responsibility for your actions (Stella was his fault in my opinion) and try to fight in order to protect your ideals and what you hold dear instead of fighting out of anger and hate!

Secondly, I'm not playing the blame game (directed at FelixZeroAlastor) so your comment there is unmerited. I'm only pointing out the obvious, Shinn fails to take the blame on himself and pushes it on other people. He blames Freedom for Stella's death, he blames Athuran for Djibril, he blames ORB and Cagalli's father for his family. Instead of having some NUTS and acknowledging that he cannot protect his loved ones as he wishes and trying to change that for the better, he says "it's your fault." I"m so sick and tired of that attitude, I feel like I'm watching a five year old when he goes through that bratty crap. Someone please give the guy a tissue, quit playing the damn violin for the smuck. He needs to grow up, realize that some things are out of his hands and come to terms with the lack of power he has in protecting what he holds dear. Blaming someone else for mistakes is not the answer. Athuran is NOT at fault for Djibril, he did what was right to prevent the deaths of innocent people in ORB.

I agree that it is Luna who should take partial blame since she failed to shoot down the shuttle. However, and I stress this the most, if Djibril was so important to kill then the Minerva (ZAFT) should have gone after that shuttle right away instead of resupplying and resting. And yes, there are going to be people who put up a valid argument for the Minverva. But excuses won't take you anywhere, bottom line is it's their fault, even Rey said it in this episode.

not to make this a political discussion but the part about destroying an entire country to find one person..... hmm reminds you of a scenario in the real world, doesnt it? Only Dullindal seems to be smarter than his real world counterpart