phase 43 discussion

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Deblas
Geez. Too much Fuck Kira and Fuck Shinn. None of you guys are right on who is better you know. Kira is all freakin plot device while Shinn is a total agnst, Im always right so fuck you, lousy excuse for a main character. Not even Kira was that agnsty in Seed.

Shinn beat Kira in his freedom and Athrun in the gouf. But bear in mind that they were on the defensive with no rage and killing intention while Shinn was. And that battle against Freedom and Shinn was freagin awesome.

Fight against S-F and Destiny. They fought equally. Its obvious that Shinn has become an ace fighter but none of them have surpassed each other in skill since none of them has lost any limbs or died in this battle. Though Shinn does have the advantage cause he is freakin pissed and goes beserk. Though S-F with that kick and disarming Destiny of his big ass sword was pretty sweet.

Fight against I-J and Destiny. Shinn was all WTF so he was emotionally whatever and Athrun was really hurt. They both went seed and Athrun cut off his arm. Still doesn't mean who is better for just cutting an arm.

Now the WTF's:

Luna was a plain joke. Give her Freedoms targeting system and still wouldn't hit anything.

Kira was in Seed and he has been God throughout the series and you tell me he couldn't even chop a leg of Legend? We are almost to the ending and Fukuda decided to make him a normal pilot now! Fuck is that about?!

if shin=kira and kira didnt chop anything off. and athurn chop off arm.... u gotta give him sum credit...

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Motteh
in the episode where Shinn took down the Gouf he goes into SEED mode after making his decision
well actually more during the making of the decision
to summarize it it went something like this: "long monologue from Athrun to Shinn" "Shinn doubts" "Athrun talks more" "Rey puts his foot between the door and interveines" "Shinn's forced to make a choice" "Athrun and Rey clash while they both are talking to Shinn" "Shinn makes his decision, goes SEED and takes down the Gouf"
and then afterwards he has some serious regret as can be seen
so stop making it sound like Shinn goes into SEED mode just to "escape" decisions, because that's how you make it sound

also the Shinn/Kira comparison about going SEED with the intent to kill, do you remember Kira from before the "final battle" with Athrun? when they were in Strike and Aegis? Kira went SEED with the intent to kill in that battle, and in battles before that he did as well

shin goes seed not to escape descisons, because he has a hard time making them.
ok this is the other version. athurn monlauge, shin think, then kira and rey are duking it out. athurn wont let shin pass, rey intervenes again.. then he makes descision to go seed and take him down.
IM arguing for this... SHIN WAS NOT IMPEDED BY ANYTHING AT THE FINAL SHOWDOWN WIH ATHURN BECAUSE HE 1MADE HIS DESISCION OR 2 HE DOESNT CARE ANYMORE: CHOOSE ONE DOESNT MATTER(the seed one) athurn legitamently raped his ass in the 1 second seed fight

why is my edit button mesed up..... sorry for double post again....

[Deblas]

Originally posted by: Motteh
also the Shinn/Kira comparison about going SEED with the intent to kill, do you remember Kira from before the "final battle" with Athrun? when they were in Strike and Aegis? Kira went SEED with the intent to kill in that battle, and in battles before that he did as well

Back then Kira couldn't control his Seed like now. Its the same with Shinn. He triggers his Seed with anger and emotion making him go beserk like Kira used to. Its just a matter of time until he learns how to control it too.

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Deblas

Originally posted by: Motteh
also the Shinn/Kira comparison about going SEED with the intent to kill, do you remember Kira from before the "final battle" with Athrun? when they were in Strike and Aegis? Kira went SEED with the intent to kill in that battle, and in battles before that he did as well

Back then Kira couldn't control his Seed like now. Its the same with Shinn. He triggers his Seed with anger and emotion making him go beserk like Kira used to. Its just a matter of time until he learns how to control it too.

i totally agree, shin will learn. im not arguing about why he goes seed, when he goes seed, why hes weird. i just want to make the point that athurn legitamently owned shin in the seed "fight" wasnt really a fight i guess more like a 1 second action. people keep saying shin is emotionally hurt or distracted and it wasnt fair. the fact is. 1 if he made his descision to attack athurn, that means he is not distracted anymore, he made his descision and decided to go in and fight, he is only DISTRACTED BEFore he chooses to attack not when he already chooses. OR he plain goes crazy and athurns speech at that time is no good. EITHER WAY NO IMPEDEDMENTS at that specific seed fight. non seed fight between athurn and shin, yes SHIN WAS DISTACTED. but none of them hurt eachother anywaz.. and as i said if kira=shin and neither did damage. but athurn chopped off an arm. it has to mean SUMTHING!

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
shin goes seed not to escape descisons, because he has a hard time making them.
ok this is the other version. athurn monlauge, shin think, then kira and rey are duking it out. athurn wont let shin pass, rey intervenes again.. then he makes descision to go seed and take him down.
IM arguing for this... SHIN WAS NOT IMPEDED BY ANYTHING AT THE FINAL SHOWDOWN WIH ATHURN BECAUSE HE 1MADE HIS DESISCION OR 2 HE DOESNT CARE ANYMORE: CHOOSE ONE DOESNT MATTER(the seed one) athurn legitamently raped his ass in the 1 second seed fight

to support my statement about Shinn being able to make decisions i referred to the fight between Athrun, Shinn and Rey, where clearly he's tossed to and fro between Rey and Athrun and finally makes a decision and then goes SEED, but as far as i'm concerned this "discussion" is over, since each side is convinced they're right and thus will not listen to 1 another

@Deblas: i know that i just brought it up as argument against drunken's "kira never goes seed to kill" statement
it was in no way a response to what you said because i was typing it before you finished posting

[drunkenmaster]

i never said kira never go seed to kill. i said ive seen kira go seed not to kill many times but not shin.. quote where i said KIRA NEVER GOES SEED TO KILL. or something that means that. i never said that kira NEVER went seed to kill. i only said i have seen him go seed not to kill and he can go seed not to kill if he wants to unlike shin..

[Deblas]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
i totally agree, shin will learn. im not arguing about why he goes seed, when he goes seed, why hes weird. i just want to make the point that athurn legitamently owned shin in the seed "fight" wasnt really a fight i guess more like a 1 second action. people keep saying shin is emotionally hurt or distracted and it wasnt fair. the fact is. 1 if he made his descision to attack athurn, that means he is not distracted anymore, he made his descision and decided to go in and fight, he is only DISTRACTED BEFore he chooses to attack not when he already chooses. OR he plain goes crazy and athurns speech at that time is no good. EITHER WAY NO IMPEDEDMENTS at that specific seed fight. non seed fight between athurn and shin, yes SHIN WAS DISTACTED. but none of them hurt eachother anywaz.. and as i said if kira=shin and neither did damage. but athurn chopped off an arm. it has to mean SUMTHING!

You are right but also being beserk actually leaves you more vulnerable. When you are enraged you stop thinking straight. You charge forward not thinking about your actions and the only thing in your mind is that you want that person dead and gone.

[drunkenmaster]

wow ive never seen it come down to this... now that shin got legit owned by athurn ur arguing berzerker seed is bad so athurn had the advantage.... also thank u. u said the only thing in ur mind is that u want the person gone. that means shin wasnt impeded when he went seed cuz he just wanted to kill athurn. he wasnt impeded by athurn's speech at that specific point. athurn legit ownage. both of them were aimed for eachother and athurn owned him. at that point athurn;s speech was obsolete because as u said shins mind wasnt on it. ok look athurn finnaly does sumthing after being weird throught the entire series. he beat kira which i supported, and he beat athurn, which i didnt like but i never said omg UNFAIR (even tho it was unfair) now this is a fair seed fight and now shin fanboys are going crazy.

[Deblas]

None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

[PSJ]

Berserker SEED? There is no such thing as berserker SEED. It is simply being angry while in SEED mode.

[Mae]

Wow, lots of who won the battle arguments.... Although it was kind of nice to see the 2 versus 2 gundam fight I don't think you can say anyone "won" because the battle was called off. ZAFT decided to retreat and ORB decided not to pursue. Both good decisions because once Djibril made his escape it was all kind of pointless, and both sides were taking rather heavy losses. I'd call the whole thing a draw.

The end was a kind of "finally" moment. I can see Lacus wanting to live her own life and not have to always act as some kind of public symbol, but enough is enough. I suppose now that they have ORB's resources behind them they can interupt a broadcast if they want. ORB always did have good tech. Dulandil's latest intelligence had Lacus hiding out in space, so I get why he's surprised, but what will he do now?

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Deblas
None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about. also since freedom didnt cut of destiny's arm or cut of any parts i guess kira wasnt emotionally sane either.... based on ur interpretation

[Curium]

Originally posted by: MrTicTac
well add another one for shinn refusing to listen and think again, he's prolly gonna deny that real lacus

That depends on the stance that Dullindal and Rey take, and who Shinn believes. Assuming Dullindal and Rey try to side with Meer, Lunamaria and (I think) Talia both know that Meer is a fake. It depends on if Shinn listens to Rey or to Luna.

Originally posted by: Motteh
and about Neo/Mwu, i'm stubborn till the end and want him to say he's Mwu before i'll admit it
but you're right, the flashback leaves very little (if not not any at all) room for something else
that summed up with his other "Mwu-like characteristics", like "i am the man who makes the impossible possible"
and a less stubborn soab would admit he is him

I'm not even going to let him off that easy. He has to show EXACTLY how Mwu would have survived before I will admit anything. I don't care if I've already lost this war. Just having Neo say he "is" Mwu isn't enough for me.

Originally posted by: Gangrel
Well, seems like they forgot about Seed mode on Kira, because he couldn't win a fight against Rey that sure is weak compared to anyone else in Seed mode. Or maybe the all mighty Kira don't actually have the skills after all uh?

Keep in mind that Kira had trouble against Providence as well. Legend is an upgrade of that so it isn't unreasonable to assume that Kira would have trouble with it as well. We didn't get a chance to see who would really win in the end.

[Deblas]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster

Originally posted by: Deblas
None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about.

Thats the thing. He didn't beat Shinn. He just cut of his arm. Neither of them finished each other off. Yeah. You have to give props to Athrun for cutting it off but none of them ended up dead or severely damaged. You win by immobilizing the unit or killing the pilot. He didn't do either.

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Deblas

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster

Originally posted by: Deblas
None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about.

Thats the thing. He didn't beat Shinn. He just cut of his arm. Neither of them finished each other off. Yeah. You have to give props to Athrun for cutting it off but none of them ended up dead or severely damaged. You win by imobolizing the unit or killing the pilot. He didn't do either.

agreed. he didnt imobilize or kill shin. but u gotta admit, shin was about to be screwed. and the fact that he had to retreat only hurts him more. but yes i see ur point. PROPS to athurn for damaging destiny when kira couldnt!

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

Originally posted by: Deblas

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster

Originally posted by: Deblas
None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about.

Thats the thing. He didn't beat Shinn. He just cut of his arm. Neither of them finished each other off. Yeah. You have to give props to Athrun for cutting it off but none of them ended up dead or severely damaged.

Destiny is mostly melee, once u cut its arms its almost useless, IJustice is Melee and i think it has integrated beams, like SFreedom (not so sure about that). Destinys possibilities to beat athrun were reduced to less than half of what they were at the beginning. I think we can safely bet Shinn would have lost given the time to continue the battle, Athrun probably lost conciousness because he relaxed otherwise he could go on a little while more (in which time Shinn would be defeated) plus remember SFreedom is going against Legend, most likely Legend would have lost (u see how Rey shoots everywhere?) and Athrun would have SF backing him in case he couldnt go on.

EDIT: BTW @deblas, Shinn did have the advantage taking into consideration Athruns shape. And Shinn was "FOCUSED", he went SEED (with a lot of anger, like always).

[addict4speed]

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about. also since freedom didnt cut of destiny's arm or cut of any parts i guess kira wasnt emotionally sane either.... based on ur interpretation

The argument is not whether the fight's unfair, but analyzing which side was at an advantage/disadvantage.

[drunkenmaster]

well in a fight someone has to have an advantage... people said before that shin being emotionally unstable and distracted was unfair and that they will "give" athurn alittle credit.... i was saying this has nothing to do with fairness and athurn deserves the legitamency of that arm HE earned that arm!... i fail to see how ur trying to counter me.. i started off this whole crazy argument (my apologies) because someone said athurn's owning of destiny was not legit. i was like wtf a guy gets outta bed when he is half dead to help his friend and nabs a hit on an uber gundam, get SUMONE (i will not mention his name) says OMG UNFAIR SOO UNFAIR THAT ATHURN WON OMG ILLEGIT HAX.

@ SF freedom- i totally agree with what u are saying [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[SFreedomZGMFx20a]

If Shinn being emotionally unstable is a disadvantage in battle, i think u r wrong, because that has been Shinn personality all along, so thats Shinn. That counts when he is emotionally stable then in a fight for some reason he isnt.

[Deblas]

Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a

Originally posted by: Deblas

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster

Originally posted by: Deblas
None of them had the advantage. Shinn wasn't focused and Athrun was badly hurt. IMO, Athrun was able to cut offs Destiny arms cause he was emotionally sane.

is the ability to control ur emotions not one of a piolts greatest skills? is using one of your skills cheating? athurn legitamently and fairly beat shin. if u think the fight was unfair, i dont know what u are talking about.

Thats the thing. He didn't beat Shinn. He just cut of his arm. Neither of them finished each other off. Yeah. You have to give props to Athrun for cutting it off but none of them ended up dead or severely damaged.

EDIT: BTW @deblas, Shinn did have the advantage taking into consideration Athruns shape. And Shinn was "FOCUSED", he went SEED (with a lot of anger, like always).

Like I said. None of them had the advantage. One was emotionally hurt and one was physically hurt.

And that song that played on the preview. Its new isn't it?


EDIT:

Originally posted by: SFreedomZGMFx20a
If Shinn being emotionally unstable is a disadvantage in battle, i think u r wrong, because that has been Shinn personality all along, so thats Shinn. That counts when he is emotionally stable then in a fight for some reason he isnt.

But have you taken in account that the two persons that he thought he killed just came back with brand new mobile suits? The persons that he actually acknowledge as a threat and enemy and that they must be destroyed? And after Athruns speech he again was in his confused state.