phase 43 discussion

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: xat
The situation kind of left me in conflict in regards to Athrun, so I said both 'can' and 'seemingly' (as opposed to do/does). In this episode, it, at least to me, seemed slightly as though Athrun went seed under pressure; I'd like to think he did it with the same control as Kira has though, since the characteristics for that kind of seed activation were unlike, for lack of better example, Shinn's.

Okey listen, Athrun has been able to go into SEED mode at will since the later half of SEED so that is what he did here to. Even if he did do it under pressure here he still knows how to do it at will.

As for Shinn "losing" in this ep i will be fair since i called his victory over Kira a victory cause of the circumstances i will call this the same. 2 people he thought he killed came back in a short time which will make you lose focus, add to that that he had to fight his former country which is bound to be hard whoever you are. There is also Athrun's speech which could have had some effect on him also.

Shinn "lost" because of the circumstances he has become a good pilot and now fights Kira evenly.

[drunkenmaster]

shin didnt "lose" he lost(without the quotes) take into consideration athurns condition(i mean he was losing blood like crazy) loss of blood affects his mental state and his physical state. also, shin would not have gone seed if he wasn't determined to take down athun therefore, he wouldnt really be distracted at the point he goes seed. or atleast the distractions dont matter anymore.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: addict4speed
Awsome episode, a few points i wanted to make:
1. it's pretty much set that Neo is Mwu. but because fukuda's a lazyass bitch, i doubt he's gonna actually explain how he survived though.

well i personally wouldn't want an explanation for 3 reasons:
1: it would destroy the myth and aura of awe that surrounds him now
2: he should've stayed dead
3: he should've stayed dead

all Mwu lovers: get to it and flame me to the afterlife (if you want to waste time)

[PSJ]

Shinn goes SEED because of his emotions he cannot do it in a controlled state. Athrun being able to fight is just an idiotic plot device. The guy couldn't walk by himself no way in hell that he could pilot a suit like that.

[drunkenmaster]

lol remember if fukada doesnt show the chracter dying they dont die! thats fukadas number one rule.

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: PSJ
Shinn goes SEED because of his emotions he cannot do it in a controlled state. Athrun being able to fight is just an idiotic plot device. The guy couldn't walk by himself no way in hell that he could pilot a suit like that.

but athurn still did, so it makes up for it.. that also means athurn must been piolting justice very poorly(didnt look like that). athurn was sweating the whole time, you could tell he was in great pain. also since he went seed u said he was outta control, what difference would that friggin make, nothing like matters to him now at that specific point. remember when he attacked athurn in the gouf? athruns previous speech did nothing, and he didnt even care about myren. in fact he was like im gonan take u down bastard! he had flashbacks in both senarios(fighting against athurn in gouf, then in justice).

srry double post [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

[PSJ]

Have you missed out on what is happening to Shinn, you can clearly see that he is starting to think for himself therefore might have listened to Athrun this time and considered what he said which would make him hesitate.

[Terracosmo]

To all of the "Shinn is stupid and doesn't understand what Athrun says nor does he give a shit about Meyrin" morons:

Would all of you be satisfied if Shinn just said

"Okay fuck this shit, Athrun is right, who cares about my best friend Rey and my closest female companion and emotional comfort Lunamaria? I'll now defect!"

IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING SIMPLE.

To say that Shinn didn't care about Meyrin is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. Watch the show instead of getting your dicks hard from Kira's constant plot device wins you goddamn retarded fanboys. God.

[drunkenmaster]

he almost lisened to athurn when athurn was in the gouf also, thats why he was panting. he was thinking about what to do and then he didnt want to think anymore so he went crazy. this time athurn was keeping him away from rey also, which u can tell made him slightly angry.
it comes down to this
so athurn in bad condition half dead and doesnt want to kill shin
vs shin sorta moved by speech, hates kira even more(more incentive to fight) wants to help rey(more incentive to fight) in seed mode(doesnt care about athurn's speech at that specific time) So shins normal fighitng is impeded, but his seed mode in unaffected, which is the only part he got owned in.

@terra i said he didnt care when he was in seed mode. i gues his caring is chopping u up in pieces then;P. when shin attacked athurn, at that specific moment he did not care about athurn or myren anymore.

[Freki]

Originally posted by: Motteh
but really, this can go on forever since you don't seem to get my point that no plan is failsafe
there are always things that go wrong or slightly different then you expected and thus rendering the latter part of your plan useless

i understand plans arent fool proof but it just seems like as soon as you start using a fake lacus you should prolly be getting prepared for the day the real one shows up. idk i guess i dont feel that her showing up shoulda been this incredible a shock to Dullindal.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
but athurn still did, so it makes up for it.. that also means athurn must been piolting justice very poorly(didnt look like that). athurn was sweating the whole time, you could tell he was in great pain. also since he went seed u said he was outta control, what difference would that friggin make, nothing like matters to him now at that specific point. remember when he attacked athurn in the gouf? athruns previous speech did nothing, and he didnt even care about myren. in fact he was like im gonan take u down bastard! he had flashbacks in both senarios(fighting against athurn in gouf, then in justice).

makes up for what? it being ridiculous? it makes it even more ridiculous, i was even surprised they showed him coming out bleeding, that's just to not exaggerate the plot device i guess (although it's a little late for that)
as for Athrun not making an impression on Shinn when he was in the Gouf, i disagree, go rewatch the episode and you'll have to see that Athrun atleast gave Shinn pause by what he said
and in episode 43 it's clearly visible that Athrun gave Shinn pause, you can see the doubt on his face (and i've only seen the raw sofar so i don't understand a thing they're saying)
and besides, ever since Shinn shot down, or rather cut/stabbed down, Athrun and Meyrin he has been thinking, maybe even since he defeated Freedom, but that's from my shady memory, i'd have to rewatch it to make sure

@PSJ: can't do anything but agree as you can read in the above

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: Motteh

Originally posted by: drunkenmaster
but athurn still did, so it makes up for it.. that also means athurn must been piolting justice very poorly(didnt look like that). athurn was sweating the whole time, you could tell he was in great pain. also since he went seed u said he was outta control, what difference would that friggin make, nothing like matters to him now at that specific point. remember when he attacked athurn in the gouf? athruns previous speech did nothing, and he didnt even care about myren. in fact he was like im gonan take u down bastard! he had flashbacks in both senarios(fighting against athurn in gouf, then in justice).

makes up for what? it being ridiculous? it makes it even more ridiculous, i was even surprised they showed him coming out bleeding, that's just to not exaggerate the plot device i guess (although it's a little late for that)
as for Athrun not making an impression on Shinn when he was in the Gouf, i disagree, go rewatch the episode and you'll have to see that Athrun atleast gave Shinn pause by what he said
and in episode 43 it's clearly visible that Athrun gave Shinn pause, you can see the doubt on his face (and i've only seen the raw sofar so i don't understand a thing they're saying)
and besides, ever since Shinn shot down, or rather cut/stabbed down, Athrun and Meyrin he has been thinking, maybe even since he defeated Freedom, but that's from my shady memory, i'd have to rewatch it to make sure

@PSJ: can't do anything but agree as you can read in the above

i agree with before he went seed, he was moved by the speech, but after he went seed, he didnt care. my argument is that when shin went seed against athurn the second time, it is the same senario. at first he is moved, then he doesnt care anymore when he goes seed. athurn owned shin when shin was in the didnt care mode, therefore he was not impeded by anything. to back this up shin did not care about athrun or myren when he ws in SEED MODE . athrun was like SHIN STOP MYREN IS HERE and shin is like im gonna kill u!!!!(clarified for terra (sorry terra! my bad!) i doubt when shin turned seed and was charging toward athurn he was thinking"hmm athurn might be right, maybe i shouldnt do this) the fact that he turns seed shows that HE CHOOSES to take athurn down(both senarios) .thoughts that are in his mind are probably more like: DIEEEE. Shin is only impeded by speeches before he turns seed. when he turns seed he just friggin mows everything. therefore athurn beat shin without impedements. if anything like i said athurn was impeded. now if athurn beat shin out of seed mode, i would gladly say shin was impeded menetally by athurn's speeches. and yes athrun fighting is pretty freacked up, but the fact that he was fighting in that condition proves he wasnt fighting at his maximum potential. he shouldnt be fighting he he did fight, o well fukada is a stupid man once again.

[PSJ]

Going SEED doesn't mean you turn into a killing machine, it is simply a stage of evolution which makes you react quicker and so on. Shinn did care about Meyrin and Athrun when he "killed" them. He hestitated alot if he was doing the right thing but he decided that following orders was the best way to go, taking a decision like that is not easy and Shinn is not a cold hearted murderer, he is a kid.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: Freki

Originally posted by: Motteh
but really, this can go on forever since you don't seem to get my point that no plan is failsafe
there are always things that go wrong or slightly different then you expected and thus rendering the latter part of your plan useless

i understand plans arent fool proof but it just seems like as soon as you start using a fake lacus you should prolly be getting prepared for the day the real one shows up. idk i guess i dont feel that her showing up shoulda been this incredible a shock to Dullindal.

yet again in this scenario you have the uncertainty of not knowing when she'll show up and it's impossible to be prepared 24/7, and responding the next day will leave to big an impression on the people
especially since the people have no clear indication which is the real one
let's just assume you run into identical twins and you know the name of one (Lacus for example) and suppose you ask the simple question "who of you is Lacus?" and both answer with "i am" then how would you find out which is the real one with nothing more then your eyes and their statements?
can you imagine the confusion and perhaps unrest the real Lacus' appearance will create?
to conclude: it's impossible to be sure whether or not he was prepared, let's just assume he did because he has proven himself to be a mastermind and brilliant puppeteer in the past
in that case it's not her appearance that shocks him the most but more the time of it, but i'm just making assumptions cause i couldn't understand what's been said due to the fact that i've only seen the raw
(yet i have the courage, or ignorance, to engage in this debate)

[drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by: PSJ
Going SEED doesn't mean you turn into a killing machine, it is simply a stage of evolution which makes you react quicker and so on. Shinn did care about Meyrin and Athrun when he "killed" them. He hestitated alot if he was doing the right thing but he decided that following orders was the best way to go, taking a decision like that is not easy and Shinn is not a cold hearted murderer, he is a kid.

first of all, shin hestitated after he "killed them" but that was when he was calmer. when he first goes seed, he is always like blinded by his anger also he hesitated when he was in non seed mode. in seed mode he hesitated 0 percent. i did not say shin was a cold blood killer. the problem with him is that he cant choose to activate seed. so when kira is in seed, hes just the same kira but more uber. when shin is in seed, the only time is IS IN SEED is when he WANTS to kill. that is why it SEEMS that he becomes a killer in seed mode when its actually just his anger.
also when he charged at athurn he didnt hesiate at all. he went seed, and he charged as fast as he could. if he was impeded he wouldnt have done that. him not hesitating means hes not impeded by anything, he goes seed and boom hes after athurn. i dont know what is ipeding him at that specific point.

[PSJ]

Wrong. He goes SEED in diffrent situations by diffrent emotions. He can also calm down whil in SEED mode and think straight even if he went into SEED mode by getting angry.

[drunkenmaster]

once again i said he turns seed and he charges. yes he can think AFTER he calms down for a few mins. but that that specific moment hes not calm... he doesnt think. he turns seed and charges. no impedements. i cant think of a situation shin goes seed when he doesnt want to kill. ive seen kira do it like 500 times but shin, not even once. every time he goes seed he is crazy. u are correct about seed in general. however SHINS use of seed is uncontrolable. he cant go into seed mode based on different emotions. he doesnt know how (or he hasnt shown he knows how).
once again shin goes seed and charges at athurn like 1 nanosecond later. he is not calm. he has 0 impedements. he wants to slice athurn's brains out. athurn goes seed, and slices his arm off. the fight is over.

[Deblas]

Geez. Too much Fuck Kira and Fuck Shinn. None of you guys are right on who is better you know. Kira is all freakin plot device while Shinn is a total agnst, Im always right so fuck you, lousy excuse for a main character. Not even Kira was that agnsty in Seed.

Shinn beat Kira in his freedom and Athrun in the gouf. But bear in mind that they were on the defensive with no rage and killing intention while Shinn was. And that battle against Freedom and Shinn was freagin awesome.

Fight against S-F and Destiny. They fought equally. Its obvious that Shinn has become an ace fighter but none of them have surpassed each other in skill since none of them has lost any limbs or died in this battle. Though Shinn does have the advantage cause he is freakin pissed and goes beserk. Though S-F with that kick and disarming Destiny of his big ass sword was pretty sweet.

Fight against I-J and Destiny. Shinn was all WTF so he was emotionally whatever and Athrun was really hurt. They both went seed and Athrun cut off his arm. Still doesn't mean who is better for just cutting an arm.

Now the WTF's:

Luna was a plain joke. Give her Freedoms targeting system and still wouldn't hit anything.

Kira was in Seed and he has been God throughout the series and you tell me he couldn't even chop a leg of Legend? We are almost to the ending and Fukuda decided to make him a normal pilot now! Fuck is that about?!

[Motteh]

in the episode where Shinn took down the Gouf he goes into SEED mode after making his decision
well actually more during the making of the decision
to summarize it it went something like this: "long monologue from Athrun to Shinn" "Shinn doubts" "Athrun talks more" "Rey puts his foot between the door and interveines" "Shinn's forced to make a choice" "Athrun and Rey clash while they both are talking to Shinn" "Shinn makes his decision, goes SEED and takes down the Gouf"
and then afterwards he has some serious regret as can be seen
so stop making it sound like Shinn goes into SEED mode just to "escape" decisions, because that's how you make it sound

also the Shinn/Kira comparison about going SEED with the intent to kill, do you remember Kira from before the "final battle" with Athrun? when they were in Strike and Aegis? Kira went SEED with the intent to kill in that battle, and in battles before that he did as well

[Phoenix20578]

Originally posted by: Deblas
Geez. Too much Fuck Kira and Fuck Shinn. None of you guys are right on who is better you know. Kira is all freakin plot device while Shinn is a total agnst, Im always right so fuck you, lousy excuse for a main character. Not even Kira was that agnsty in Seed.

Shinn beat Kira in his freedom and Athrun in the gouf. But bear in mind that they were on the defensive with no rage and killing intention while Shinn was. And that battle against Freedom and Shinn was freagin awesome.

Fight against S-F and Destiny. They fought equally. Its obvious that Shinn has become an ace fighter but none of them have surpassed each other in skill since none of them has lost any limbs or died in this battle. Though Shinn does have the advantage cause he is freakin pissed and goes beserk. Though S-F with that kick and disarming Destiny of his big ass sword was pretty sweet.

Fight against I-J and Destiny. Shinn was all WTF so he was emotionally whatever and Athrun was really hurt. They both went seed and Athrun cut off his arm. Still doesn't mean who is better for just cutting an arm.

Now the WTF's:

Luna was a plain joke. Give her Freedoms targeting system and still wouldn't hit anything.

Kira was in Seed and he has been God throughout the series and you tell me he couldn't even chop a leg of Legend? We are almost to the ending and Fukuda decided to make him a normal pilot now! Fuck is that about?!

Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap...
Finnaly, someone said it.