Phase 42 discussion

[alukard]

There's no doubt only Mu knows the line. "But im the one who can make the impossible...possible."

Kira and Shinn both activated seed mode. In that way there is no question that there's no difference when they're all in seed mode. Athrun owned Kira when they're both in seed mode. Coordinators > Naturals because they have seed mode and even when they arent they've already acquired all their knowledge of battle tactics that they learned while in they're berserked and lived to fight again. Berserk= Berserk. The difference is who has better mobile suit and who is overall better pilot while in seed mode. There is no such thing as one seed mode being better than the other. The only difference is Kira > Shinn because while Shinn tried to kill Kira with everything he got, but Kira wont kill anyone unless he has no choice and didnt fight with all his strength. Shinn is a ruthless killer and if the situation was reversed, unlike Kira who let Shinn ran from this battle, he would have killed Kira like before while he was retreating. If the tables were turned Shinn would have killed Kira while he was running and defenseless. However, Kira > Shinn berserked. They both activated Seed mode. Shinn couldnt lay a finger on Kira even with a faster and deadlier battle suit. There's no such thing as a hybrid Mirage Colloid. You either see the thing or you dont and you could clearly see Destiny and its moving at a faster speed than any gundam, hence the afterimage when its moving. There's no comparision and if Kira commanded Destiny he would be unstoppable for as long as Destiny could stay powered up.

Kira almost couldnt keep track of Destiny's movement even in seed mode when such a berserker would have an enhanced sense of spatial awareness. Destiny > Strike Freedom. Strike was built for gunning down mobile suits but otherwise speed is one of the thing MS are made for and is one of the most important quality besides having a competant pilot who can use it in the first place. If we're comparing medievil roles Kira is the ranger and Shinn is the knight. Shinn's mobile suit is made for galloping in heavy armor and shield in hand into battle and while Kira's was made to gun down enemies with eagle eye accuracy afar but is not to be underestimated when having to go face to face and get close enough to know what the guy next to him just ate the other day.

I was surprised Kira could even catch Shinn's giant sabers with just daggers. He activated berserker almost simultaneously as he fully intended to catch Shinn's saber and disarmed him as he doesnt intend to kill Shinn which is why Shinn said "You mean that if it was a beam it would have been all over?" Shinn on the otherhand would give no such mercy. He couldnt do that without berserker mode because of his MS's disadvantages in the speed department. Otherwise you could clearly see that Destiny could just run in circle around SF and pick any enemy off and get away scot-free, no relation or offense to Scottish folks. They both activated their seed mode one right after the other but Kira owned Shinn even when Shinn has his giant two hand saber out while Kira already put away his two small swords for his guns and needed only daggers or rather apple paring knives to defend himself and took down a crazed and berserked Shinn without even sweating while Shinn completely drained his MS.

As for having unlimited fire power, it doesnt matter. Battles are won in an instance and Shinn had a better MS but he couldnt do anything to Freedom and had to drain his MS of even primary and secondary power and still couldnt own Kira when they're both in seed mode and Shinn has every intent of murdering Kira on the battlefield while Kira does not. Having nuclear power isnt everything. It doesnt make your suit better. It doesnt make it faster. It doesnt improve your pilot skill. It does however enable you to use your guns alot and move around the battle field for a long time. Even if Shinn has nuclear powered suits he would still take forever just to annoy Kira. On a good day when Kira is serious he's unsurpassed. I dont see why you Shinn fans like him and say Shinn was already into 66% of the battle or Kira went into seed mode first or Kira had better mobile suits. Maybe Nuclear power makes some difference but its not the be all end all quality that makes a mobile suit and it doesnt make it indestructable. Freedom can still be taken out in one stab or shot and if your shields are gone and you got no weapon then tough luck. As for the 66%, i hate numbers. However when Kira stepped if you look at the time frame it was like a few seconds after Cagalli started shooting and Shinn easily took her arms out. However Shinn was spending a good hr or so trying to kill Kira all over again, slashing at him, exchanging shots while Kira aimed Shinn's shot perfectly and nullified Shinn's shot effortlessly. Shinn's gunning skills could still need help even after Athrun teached him how to hold a gun properly and after years of military training while Kira starting holding gun and was never formally trained when he met Captain Ramius but was awarded Strike gundam instead of Mu. Kira is a natural warrior; Shinn needs to spend his whole life in the military just to do what Kira can do all while Kira just came out in the fresh from underneath a rock. This is what i like about him as he's not a ruthless killer nor one who is indecisive. I wish Athrun would make up his mind what he wants to do. It shouldnt require your former fiance to help tell you what to do with your life after your dad already done told you so and died for what he believed.

As for Kira haters seeing he has new-type ability, it's not an ability so much as a premonition. It doesnt make you unstoppable like you think it would. It does so something but so far the writers have shown that all it can do is tell you that the main characters notice each other's presence. Mu has it whenever he felt raww's presence. Its like, hey i dont know that guy but i think he's up to no good. Kira's new-type was activated almost simultaneously as he shot down the goufs that were chaining him down to disable his MS body parts. It didnt enhanced his shooting skills, accuracy, or anything. He just knew they're not friendly coordinators and his shooting skill is already unsurpassed. He knew this even beforehand when he stepped into the battle against Dullindal's goons that were attacking Lacus and that he had to take them out before they take him out. Maybe it is an advantage in that you wont shoot friendly MS but in this day and age technology is advanced and new-type is an obsolete ability. You can store a thousand databases of enemies and friendlies in those MS's and keep track of when they're coming a mile away. Seriously, new-type is just a way for the director to show something flashy on the monitor so that the audience doesnt get bored of all the senseless violence thats going on. I dont know if its different in Japan but here in America GS universe would be rated PG-13 for animated violence and nudity.

[MrTicTac]

^ wow.. (not in a good way..)

[alukard]

^ wow.. (not in a good way..)

___

The good thing about these forums is that if your opinions are unpopular you CAN say whatever you want and people cant find you and jump you. You can be obnoxious, racist, sexist, whatever proudly and talk about blacks, whites, and even Scottishs and be a masochist and the worst thing that can happen is being banned.

[dead]

^ WOW [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] ........ lol no j/k, but come on dude, you dont have to write 1000000000 words just to say that Kira owned shinn (and worst of all dont repeat the same arguments over and over and over again [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]) ...... but the episode was awesome, i didnt really expect cagalli to do anything at all, shes not a really good pilot compared with shinn (or kira and athrun for that matter) but at least she tried, and kira comin down from the sky with lacus was awesome, the background song really makes better ...... and to the guy who said that it was bs to stop a sword with your hands ROFLMAO hehe [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] i'll just leave it at that [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[Curium]

Originally posted by: alukard
Athrun owned Kira when they're both in seed mode.

This never happened. There has only been 1 fight between Athrun and Kira when Athrun went SEED, that was the final fight between Strike and Aegis. The fight was a draw, neither owned the other.

Coordinators > Naturals because they have seed mode

Naturals can have SEED mode as well. Cagalli is proof of that.

There's no such thing as a hybrid Mirage Colloid. You either see the thing or you dont and you could clearly see Destiny and its moving at a faster speed than any gundam, hence the afterimage when its moving.

"and "Hikari no Tsubasa" ("Wings of Light") beam wings that are used as a propulsion system, enabling the Destiny to move at very high speeds. In conjunction with a form of Mirage Colloid technology, this system causes the Destiny to leave a trail of visible after-images that can confuse enemy sensors. "

^Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZGMF-X42S_Destiny_Gundam

Of course Kira in SEED mode is probably better then any sensors.

Having nuclear power isnt everything. It doesnt make your suit better. It doesnt make it faster.

It can make it go faster because it allows more power to be used for thruster output without fear of running out of power.

but in this day and age technology is advanced and new-type is an obsolete ability.

This shows a complete lack of understanding what a new-type is. The best way I can think of to sum it up breifly is that a new-type can pretty much exist sybiotically with machines. They can instinctivly know what they do and control them beyond any normal person's ability regardless of experience. Also it allows limited amounts of being able to see the future so you can aim where the enemy will be when the shot gets there, not where they are when you shoot.


[*]A note from the above Destiny submission on Wiki,

"Shinn was eventually ordered to retreat due to having lost several weapons and his hyper capacitor running low on energy."

"The Destiny is powered by a "hyper-deuterion" reactor, which is a nuclear reactor that incorporates a derivative of deuterion beam technology for currently unknown purposes, and includes a hyper capacitor system that is likely used to temporarily increase the system's power output."

After reading this, it may be that Destiny has a true nuclear reactor, but the Deuterion system allows it to funnel the power more efficiently resulting in increased power output for speed and fire-power. Destiny probably could have continued fighting, but it would have been at greatly reduced capacity (Zero chance against SF at anything less then full power).

EDIT: More from Wiki

Hyper-Deuterion Nuclear Reactor
The hyper-deuterion nuclear reactor is a hybrid system created by ZAFT which combines a nuclear fission reactor with a deuterion beam system. The mechanics of this system are unknown, but hyper-deuterion reactors are more powerful and efficient than conventional fission reactors, but require a hyper capacitor battery and recharging, which effectively makes it having a shorter operation time. The hyper-deuterion reactor is currently used by the ZGMF-X42S Destiny and ZGMF-X666S Legend The "G.U.N.D.A.M" acronym for mobile suits with a hyper-deuterion nuclear reactor is Gunnery United Nuclear-Deuterion Advanced Maneuver.

[drag0nf1am3]

@alukard:

Wow that alot of junk i jus read....remeber that cagalli went seed in the last few episode of SEED, so SEED mode is not limited to coordinaters, and if u think that cagalli is a coordinator...early in seed they mention that kira was her coordinator brother suggesting that she is still a natural.

[Curium]

Originally posted by: drag0nf1am3
@alukard:

Wow that alot of junk i jus read....remeber that cagalli went seed in the last few episode of SEED, so SEED mode is not limited to coordinaters, and if u think that cagalli is a coordinator...early in seed they mention that kira was her coordinator brother suggesting that she is still a natural.

Slight typo, I think you mean early in SEED Destiny he was referred to as her Coordinator Brother by Yuna, not early in SEED.

[alukard]

This shows a complete lack of understanding what a new-type is. The best way I can think of to sum it up breifly is that a new-type can pretty much exist sybiotically with machines. They can instinctivly know what they do and control them beyond any normal person's ability regardless of experience. Also it allows limited amounts of being able to see the future so you can aim where the enemy will be when the shot gets there, not where they are when you shoot.

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This shows a complete lack of respect and a complete understanding of only one's own opinion. Sorry but your opinion does not make it a fact. New-type is a precognition not a some kind of god like ability. There's already an ability like that. Its called berzerker mode/seed. Look it up sometimes. Watch the original Gundam seed.

If that were true then Mu would have been able to kill alot of people when he has it. He and Raww both had it and they were never able to do anything besides recognizing each other and werent able to pilot their suits as much nor owned alot of MS, and Raww was > than Mu even though they both have it. Kira owned Raww and when they fought neither of them used new-type ability nor needed it. Raww put up a good fight and in fact was owning Kira up until the last second when he was overpowered and outgunned. It doesnt stay up all the time like seed when you're in battle. If you can see the future then why didnt Raww see his imminent death and avoid a fellow coordinator. Its didnt help Raww at all and yet he used the Dragoon system very well despite being a supreme commander and spending his whole time on his ship. He only used new-type when he saw Mu whom he hated. He knew by rivalry that the person coming for him was up to no good. However it was always a draw because they both were good pilots not because they have new-type ability. They didnt shoot more accurately. Raww didnt dodge better than other coordinators and you have to remember that Raww was a coordinator and Mu isnt but yet they were always in a draw when fighting each other. Even Kira had alot of trouble when faced against Raww but yet Kira has seed mode on and all Raww had were his Dragoons, like Mu's MA except that its a MS so it could do alot more (who later pilots the skygrasper to fight Raww until he took over the Strike) . Mu didnt become as good as Kira all of a sudden and can take down Raww's goons as good as Kira can and stop Athrun, Dearka, and Yzak from stealing the gundams. It accomplished absolutely nothing. It did prove something though and that is that it all comes down to the pilot and Raww wasn't even an ultimate coordinator nor used Seed mode when he faced Kira, an ultimate coordinator.

Its different when Kira used it. However the results were the same. Kira could plot enemies with his meteor with or without Seed mode using his navi system. He could aim for flying projectiles aimed at his mothership. He proved his accuracy in battle many times by disabling pilots without killing them. He could easily stop those Goufs with or without the new-type. They were very close to him and not a target a mile away and he has shot down Minerva's Scylla cannon from a mile away with deadly precision even without seed mode even without having to predict where the ship is or will be and the Minerva was constantly evading AA and moving rapidly through a large cloud of debris and eye-blinding flashes of beams. Im sorry but you got 4 Goufs that are wrapped around you and if you need new-type ability to have to predict where they are and aim for them then you mustn't be piloting a billion dollar worth piece of hi-technology. New-type doesnt do that. It just gives Kira a sense of security knowing that what he does is the right thing to do by disabling fellow coordinators whom he knows are just doing what they're ordered to do but not worth killing them.

As for naturals having seed mode, Cagalli is an exception not a rule. She is afterall a twin of Kira, an ultimate coordinator, even if she is not born from a test tube and grown in a perfect environment. Genes and environments are two aspects that are important to a perfect coordinator. Kira has both. Cagalli was grown in a loving family as well and she has the same genes as Kira except for being born without her parents having to go through gene therapy.

[Splash!]

SEED has nothing to do with being a coordinator or not so why not just leave it at that alukard. Its not that cagalli is some exception to the rule.
@alukard: Being a newtype is not a useless ability. While it dusn make u the God on the battlefield automatically , it does definitely help alot in helping you own. After all we can all agree that Rau owned much more than regular coordinators, just as Mwu was much more than regular naturals. Hence, Kira being the ultimate coordinator with SEED mode and the newtype abilities==== add that together and it pretty much means hes something BIG!

[MrTicTac]

bout Cagalli, coordinator SEED stuff,, wat makes a coordinator a coordinator is that their genes are altered, sooo cagalli is a natural,, doesnt matter where they grew up etc etc

soo saying only coordinators can have SEED mode is incorrect, twin sister etc etc cagalli isnt a coordinator


and since the word newtype has never come up in any dialogue in SEED or Destiny,, I dont think it should count,, Mwu and that other dude may not even be newtypes,, did either ever sense Kira ? (if were saying newtype flash makes someone a newtype) Mwu could be like the Frost Bros where both can only sense each other



I dont think Curium is saying newtypes are super gods that kill all, he's saying wat is generally the definition of a newtype in Mobil Suit Gundam, Gundam X etc etc, NOT gundam seed since they never say newtype

and newtypes just have visions or dreams and feel other people's emotions (so instinct would tell them where to shoot etc) and this is not always correct of course, visions of the future in Gundam X didnt always come true

[alukard]

Coordinators > Naturals because they have seed mode and even when they arent they've already acquired all their knowledge of battle tactics that they learned while in they're berserked and lived to fight again. Berserk= Berserk.

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From this line alot of people are saying that coordinators and seed mode is linked. Some says its not. All i said was that coordinators are better than naturals because they have seed mode. Most of them have it and more so than naturals. How many naturals besides Cagalli has it? You might find one natural with seed mode but you wont have to look very hard to see that coordinators outnumber naturals by a ratio of many to one. This is true because their genes were spliced to find the right genes that made them advantageous. This was what started the war on Earth. Its only a matter of time before they find the seed gene and since coordinators have the certain genes that makes them more in-tuned to certain tasks they'll eventually wont even find any difference between seed mode and non-seed mode because they'll find the right combination of genes to flip it on indefinitely. Kira was partial proof of that. He had no problem working the mechanics of a mobile suit despite his only experience being that he worked with his professor as a first year technical student near a well funded top secret weapons facility. In a minute tops he was able to reconfigure the OS of a never weapon he has never worked with before. He was battle ready and blood rushed when he saw a gear approached him. Seed stands for Superior evolutionary something something. In my view, Cagalli's only difference is that her parents didnt have to go through gene therapy like Dulindal and Captain Gladys to tell them that they should or should not marry. Cagalli and Kira are practically twins except Kira had his genes enhanced further.

There are other ways to acquire seeds besides being a coordinator, and there are other genes besides Seed, but most coordinators have seed and most coordinators are better than naturals. You cant say only roses have thorns and all roses are red but you can say all roses have thorns and all roses can be cut down because people can still see through its outer beauty and innocence and its need to protect itself with thorns from hands of people and things because people are indiscriminating and shallow like that.

[Vega]

About the whole Newtype flash thing:

A lot of people have mentioned that the word newtype has never been mentioned in Seed and Destiny. Also, we all know about Gundam series loving to re-use their animations over and over and over again. During Gundam SEED I always assumed they just used the newtype flash from the earlier gundam series' with Mwu and Kruze to show their long distance recognition of each other, possibly because one was a clone of the other's father and they had an intuitive feeling about being so close to someone so genetically similar.

(I'm just saying I don't think the flash means that they are 'newtypes' at all, and sorry, I couldn't think of any reason why Kira should have a flash...)

[Wizard054]

If it was a beam, it'd be over...
Meaning...if Shinn was using your typical beam saber, there's no way Freedom could've palmed it.

[Curium]

Originally posted by: MrTicTac
and since the word newtype has never come up in any dialogue in SEED or Destiny,, I dont think it should count,, Mwu and that other dude may not even be newtypes,, did either ever sense Kira ? (if were saying newtype flash makes someone a newtype) Mwu could be like the Frost Bros where both can only sense each other

At the end of SEED after Mwu died Rau did sense Kira coming for him.

I dont think Curium is saying newtypes are super gods that kill all, he's saying wat is generally the definition of a newtype in Mobil Suit Gundam, Gundam X etc etc, NOT gundam seed since they never say newtype

Thanks. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I suck at communication.

Originally posted by: Wizard054
If it was a beam, it'd be over...
Meaning...if Shinn was using your typical beam saber, there's no way Freedom could've palmed it.

What? The way this is worded sounds like you are implying that Shinn thought he would have won if his sword was all Beam? If I'm misunderstanding what you wrote I'm sorry, but Shinn was refering to SFs Rail Guns not being beams.

[NeoBear]

Originally posted by: Wizard054
If it was a beam, it'd be over...
Meaning...if Shinn was using your typical beam saber, there's no way Freedom could've palmed it.

? um you dont seem to be on the same wave lenth as the rest of us, shinn was admiting at that moment that if kira had used a beam weapon it would have been over, or in other words that kira just pulled some pimp shit on him.

side note anybody else notice that kira dont talk much anymore when he figts, wich is cool with me some of the shit they say while fighting is lame as hell

Gundam A: why are you doing this!!!!

Gundam B: the world is a cow and the milk has gone bad to prevent these things from taking place we must fight that way i can know im alive, also i have to take a shit and they wont let me go back till i beat you

Gundam A: if indeed the world is a cow then i will be lowfat milk GHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

Gundam B: then you are doomed to repeat the cow milking you people dont understand how we have sufferd GHAAAAAAA!!!!!

i mean are you kidding me why can they even hear each other in the first place lol

[kenren]

okay...just watched phase 42 ( im slow) XD

cool episode !!! cant wait for phase 43 !!

[Psyke]

Originally posted by: NeoBear
i mean are you kidding me why can they even hear each other in the first place lol

There are certain open access frequencies which they can communicate. Of course, internal communication channels/frequencies are supposed to be encrypted/secret information.

But we all know that the true reason they can communicate is of course another plot device where they can get more information and react accordingly.

Neo: "Stellar's the one piloting it!"
Shin: "Stellar!? How the heck did you get this channel anyway?!"

[Millenium-Boyz]

What is so special about this "Gundam Seed Special Edition" is there any hentai scenes in it ? LolZ

[Zariel]

Ok, this is some real discussion.

- How come when Kira and Lacus was talking about taking Justice to Athrun when they were back in Eternal, there was 3 gundams??? Is one of them Strike????

[fox_t]

Originally posted by: Zariel
Ok, this is some real discussion.

- How come when Kira and Lacus was talking about taking Justice to Athrun when they were back in Eternal, there was 3 gundams??? Is one of them Strike????

I suspect one of them was Gaia...or it could've been Strike.

Either way at the time Kira and Lacus were talking there should have been at least 4 Gundams on that ship.