Book: Harry Potter -Half Blood Prince-

[Honoko]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Part of it is just that J.K. Rowling would rather sacrifice some realism and plausibility than have some characters die or get hurt. Is there any way that the Death Eaters shouldn't have killed all the D.A. during the 5th Book? Not those who got seperated from Harry at least... A group of Death Eaters with a vast arsenal of spells can't ever seem to get the words out before the Hogwarts children for the same reason, Rowling is attached to the good guys and doesn't want to face the facts that, in the world she herself constructed, the kids would be screwed and evil would prevail over good. But since she has all the power of an author, she gets to do as she pleases. She has Harry and others get hit by some spells, but none of them do lasting damage or have any specific malady, they're all sort of like getting kicked or punched...

Well, this is supposed to a children's storybook, after all....

[ChaosK]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs

Snape did rock, he always was really good at Dark Arts and knows the flipside of Defense against them, being with Dumbledore's crew for so long... He also knows all about Harry and can use this to his advantage.

Considering harry's most successful spells were created by Snape, i doubt that snape would've had any trouble repelling it, what i dont get is, is snape more powerful than say...bellatrix? harry almost dueled bellatrix head on successfully, but never stood a chance with snape?

The Death Eaters are evil people, they love to do evil things. Even that Fenrir Greyback particularly loves to attack young children, but he only managed to bite one of the older Weasley brothers... I can't imagine these people couldn't produce some damn good Unforgivables on the kids just because they don't know them. It may not be simple, but its what they're best at for crying out loud!

i believe the DA students credited it to something about the felix fr....(luck potion)

Why can't Death Eaters do it? I remember in Book 5 Hermione got hit with a Sectumseptra (the swordlike slashing spell) which was from a Silenced Death Eater. This seems like the way to go, rather than stupid stuns and basic hexes that just cause people so boo-boos. I would go in their slashing people apart if I were a Death Eater, and since they were on a covert mission, stealth and silence would have been key.

hmm? thats right it WAS like sectumseptra though i'm not sure the same thing, it was described to have a little purpleish flame or something.

Also, if two people were required to get the Horcrux, how could R.A.B. get it? (since he obviously did) and did the spell just go back in place over the fake locket, or did R.A.B. put it there (and why would he?) It seems to me that if Voldemort made the defense around the Horcrux, he would also be unharmed by it. But ya never know...

ah, i thought of something, maybe the potion doesnt affect halfbloods, it would suit perfectly! he assumes the best wizards are purebloods, so being able to get that far voldermart assumed the wizard/witch was a pureblood. If R.A.B was a halfblood, he wouldnt have any trouble getting it. Also, with this defence voldermart wouldnt have to worry about most of his supporters betraying him because he made sure almost all of them were pureblooded. Technically speaking, harry who has the most similarities with voldermart should've been the one to drink the potion, it would've affected him least because like the prophecy said the dark lord will mark him as his equal voldermart gave harry some of his powers, so harry is very similar to voldermart.

Part of it is just that J.K. Rowling would rather sacrifice some realism and plausibility than have some characters die or get hurt. Is there any way that the Death Eaters shouldn't have killed all the D.A. during the 5th Book? Not those who got seperated from Harry at least... A group of Death Eaters with a vast arsenal of spells can't ever seem to get the words out before the Hogwarts children for the same reason, Rowling is attached to the good guys and doesn't want to face the facts that, in the world she herself constructed, the kids would be screwed and evil would prevail over good. But since she has all the power of an author, she gets to do as she pleases. She has Harry and others get hit by some spells, but none of them do lasting damage or have any specific malady, they're all sort of like getting kicked or punched...

this can be proven from the book why the DA members stood a chance.
-logic in harry potter books are not normal logic ex. "the strongest wizard of all time who has so much pride, forbids anybody to speak his name"<--if i was voldermart i would want everyone to know my name so i could rule under it!
-harry SOMEHOW was able to elude voldermart when he was only 14, AND harry fought voldermart and survived, though he is "special" he should've been long dead.
-Voldermart asking Draco to do the task of killing dumbledore, this was pure stupidity because it contridicts with the plot until the end. draco's mom pleading at snape "HE'LL DIE IN THE ATTEMPT AIEE!" and all that crap, i figured he was going to break the death eaters out of prision.
-it appears, that by the time your a 5th year in hogwarts, you should already know the most effective, counter-jinxes, curses, hexes and charms.
-in the 6th book defence against dark arts class focused on silent spells, no new ones, just the ability to perform the ones they already knew silently. <--this might explain how the DA members were able to fight against the death eaters. also it seems when your playing "Defensive" you have more of an advantage instead of pursuing, all the death eaters were afraid to harm harry because he had the prophecy.

Also, we have Snape, Harry and others dodging and blocking and even REVERSING spells in defense. But the Death Eaters never seem to do this...

well, it seems that the death eaters fighting at hogwarts are, lower classed, because undoubtly, voldermart would've sent his best to get the prophecy. also, the DA members were never in a real duel against the death eaters. They never fought like the way the members of the Order did against death eaters in the 5th book where everybody was dueling 1v1.

[masamuneehs]

I admit it is a children's story for the most part, but Rowling takes it seriously and so do lots of the readers, many of which are older. Just because it appeals to kids doesn't mean inconsistencies in spell use and effects and all I elaborated on earlier are ok...

As to the Half-Blood Pure-Blood thing with the barrier on the Horcrux in the cave. If I remember correctly Regulus Black (who I still belive is R.A.B.) was a Pure-Blood from the very pure-blood Black family. So the issue of how R.A.B. got through Voldemorts defenses still remains to be seen. I havent got a clue as to how he pulled it off, since Dumbledore, who knew Voldemort better than almost anyone, needed to take his time decipherign where Voldemort's magic was in the cave. Dumbledore also is a tough one, even for an old man, and drinking that potion was impossible for him to do alone... R.a.B. had an accomplice?

As for playing defensively against Death Eaters, it does make some sense. but I just can't seem to stomach the idea that some 16 year old brats can go at it with expirienced dark wizards and not get crushed... I guess that Felix Fricius (sp?) luck potion had a lot to do with it... but that feels like a lame way to win a fight, don't it?

[SK]

the luck was enough to not get them killed, they didnt win.

[ChaosK]

then it might be untrue that R.A.B. is Regulus Black, because that was a guess from the start. we can consider R.A.B. to be an unknown with the possibility that he is a half-blood.

Who was the guy that owned the sorcerer's stone in book 1? i think his initials had something to do with R.A.B. ??

[masamuneehs]

But R.A.B. seemed to know Voldemort from the letter he wrote. He also seemed to know that Voldemort would have him killed soon.

However, it doesn't seem to make any sense that Voldemort would let ANY of the Death Eaters know about hi Horcruxes. He didn't tell Lucius Malfoy and even Lestrange doesn't seem to know about it. I do just hope that R.A.B. is explained well, because right now its a very confusing thing to me...

Oh, and nice new avatar Chaoskiddo. Meow.

[Masamune]

plausible theories

http://www.livejournal.com/use...arlandgraves/3409.html

[Honoko]

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
Who was the guy that owned the sorcerer's stone in book 1? i think his initials had something to do with R.A.B. ??

Wasn't it Nicholas something? I don't have book 1 handy w/ me rite now..

[SK]

i think it is regulus black, and more likely to think he had an accomplice in getting the locket.
from that site:

"First of all, R.A.B. has to be Regulus Black. This has practical implications for Harry because, when he figures it out, it will help him find the real locket Horcrux.

Where is the locket? On page 116 of OotP (U.S. paperback edition), Sirius and the kids are cleaning out an old cabinet which contains items such as a snuffbox with Wartcap powder, a music box, and a 'heavy locket which none of them could open'. I'd bet that's the locket in question."

[masamuneehs]

SK's post I believe hits the nail on the head. I figured there was something bigger around harry's inheriting 12 Grimmauld Place other than Kreacher. All Kreecher did in Book 6 was tail Malfoy and make shitty reports to Harry, Dobby could have done that by himself. So yeh, that locket will come back in to play, although probably not for some time in Book 7.

[ChaosK]

but wasnt it supposed to be "Destoryed?" and didnt sirius say that his brother was burned off their family tree, so how in the world could Regulus Black return to the house and hide the locket?

Hey, didnt Sirius say in book5 that he had "blood traitors" in his family? i dont remember and i'm too lazy to look but Regulus might be one of them, then it would also prove my point with the half-blood theory.

EDIT: just fully read the theories proposed on that site, which i think i have found a flaw.

Snape gazes at the Headmaster for a moment. Two accomplished Legilimens do nothing but look at each other for a moment in the midst of a heated battle situation, and we are to assume there is nothing passing between them? Oh, no. I think Dumbledore is asking Snape, via his thoughts, to kill him. Remember that Dumbledore's pain and delirium in the cave have already led him to ask for release by death ('Kill me,' he says to Harry). Now Dumbledore is a bit more rational, but he sees that his own death at Severus' hands can serve a purpose. His pleas are not for his life but for his death.

why would dumbledore go through the trouble of not even leaving a note to anybody in the order that snape is still on their side? by not doing this, dumbledore should know that IF snape is acctually on their side, and does as dumbledore commands, the Order is unaware that snape acted under dumbledore's commands. Thus, when Snape returns to the Order's aid, the order will reject him and kill him. So snape was probably really on the side of Voldermart. Why would Dumbledore have snape take the unbreakable vow if he knew that draco could not kill him? it would be much easier for dumbledore to LET draco kill him. i can understand why dumbledore wouldnt tell the Order BEFOREHAND that snape was going to kill him because at the funeral you see how many people he was associated with and how much they all cared for him, the whole Order, would've probably gone to his aid but dumbledore did not want this so leaving a note to be read AFTER his death is reasonable, but we have yet to see one.

[blightian]

hmmm.... i wonder how would harry potter survive in the next bk without going back to Hogwarts. i believe he's not even one-tenth of dumbledore in terms of magical skills and power. i'm doubt he'll be able to accomplish what dumbledore has failed to do. i wonder how jk rowling could make Harry grow all powerful in one bk.

[SK]

i got to ask did you read the 6th book chaos? for one thing he didnt need to leave a note telling snape was really on their side because everyone in the order believed he was. dumbledore did not know snape would end up killing him, he didnt know to leave the order a note saying, "hey snape is going to have to kill me, but he is still on our side." also dumbledore didnt have snape make the unbreakable vow, draco's mother did.

i doubt that sirius would call anyone in his family a "blood traiter" that is the term for Purebloods that marry Mudbloods or Half-Bloods, or a non magical person, sirius wasnt a purist.

edit: harry already has a ton of potential, and he also has the information dumbledore passed on him. this is a great weapon since voldemort has no idea harry knows about the horcruxes. i think snape or slughorn will have to train harry in the next book.

[2:25]

heh, blightian brought up a very good point [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

Originally posted by: blightian
i wonder how jk rowling could make Harry grow all powerful in one bk.

I've been wondering that myself. Though, I do admit that Harry has some talent here and there, along with a lot of luck.

[masamuneehs]

Maybe Snape told Dumbledore that he made the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa Malfoy and then Dumbledore decided that if one of them had to die it should be him. He has helped Harry as much as possible and now Snape, if he's still loyal to the Order, will be able to help Harry alot by Voldemort (& neccessarily everyone else) believing he is a loyal Death Eater. Besides, if Harry ever found out that Snape was still working for the Order, Voldemort could use Legillemency to find out and Snape's cover would be blown.

As for how harry will get stronger than Voldemort, I believe Dumbledore said something about him having "the power of love" on his side (or something cheesy sounding like that) and that Voldemort knows nothing about that and that will be his undoing. So maybe Harry is already stronger? (but not wiser nor as expirienced, and he has true friends, not just minions)

Love will find a way!

[masamuneehs]

Oh I also noticed a strange thing about the Unbreakable Vow scene.

It says in parenthesis right before Lestrange makes the third and final bond that Snape's hand twitches momentarilly. Does that mean the Vow is no good? Or is this a sign of his apprehension at taking the Vow and showing he really isn't a Death Eater?

Other things that now make me think Snape still works for the Order:

1. He only deflected Harry's spells and ordered the other Eaters not to attack him.
2. He can help Harry in his fight against Voldemort in a way that Dumbledore could never. in fact, I believe that is why Dumbledore BEGGED for Snape to kill him, because he realizes that Snape is going to be the only one who can help Harry later on, due to his status as what must be #1 Death Eater.
3. Dumbledore would never beg for his life to be spared. Look how calm he was with Draco seconds before.
4. Snape could have killed Harry in Book 1 and helped Voldemort get the Sorcerer's Stone, instead he saves Harry and helps thwart Voldemort. Far too much to keep your cover, don't ya think?
5. It just figures that JK Rowling would mess with our heads by having Snape kill Dumbledore and making it look like he's evil, only to have him help Harry (maybe even at the cost of his life) greatly in a critical part of the final Book 7.

EDIT: Oh shit I totally didn't see that I was the last one who posted to this topic... Shit, well, err, don't ban me! Sorry!

[Deblas]

This book was really concentrated on love and jealousy. Bill and Fleur, Harry and Ginny, Tonks and Lupin, Ron and Hermione. But still it was another one of J.K's masterpieces. And I can't believe Snape. I thought he was actually good and was in undercover.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] DUMBLEDORE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SK]

scroll up deblas, some of us still think he is.

[ChaosK]

Originally posted by: SK
i got to ask did you read the 6th book chaos? for one thing he didnt need to leave a note telling snape was really on their side because everyone in the order believed he was. dumbledore did not know snape would end up killing him, he didnt know to leave the order a note saying, "hey snape is going to have to kill me, but he is still on our side." also dumbledore didnt have snape make the unbreakable vow, draco's mother did.

i doubt that sirius would call anyone in his family a "blood traiter" that is the term for Purebloods that marry Mudbloods or Half-Bloods, or a non magical person, sirius wasnt a purist.

edit: harry already has a ton of potential, and he also has the information dumbledore passed on him. this is a great weapon since voldemort has no idea harry knows about the horcruxes. i think snape or slughorn will have to train harry in the next book.

yes i did read this book, i was just saying since there is aa theory that Snape may still be on the side or the order, except after murdering Dumbledore, how in the world would he ever be able to convince the rest of the order that he is acctually on their side? snape was already on thin ice but the order left him alone because dumbledore said so, without dumbledore to explain snape's reasoning, the order would probably kill him if he ever returned to say "i'm really on your side"

and i didnt mean that sirius called his family blood traitors, his parents did though, like he said some people were burned off the family tree like he was. (his mom did that) i was just suggesting that regulus might have been one of the people burned off.

[masamuneehs]

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo

and i didnt mean that sirius called his family blood traitors, his parents did though, like he said some people were burned off the family tree like he was. (his mom did that) i was just suggesting that regulus might have been one of the people burned off.

Regulus is still on the family tree. Sirius points that out to Harry when Kreecher is trying to save it from being thrown out in Book 5. Apparently his parents died before he did...

And to Deblas: Glad you enjoyed it too. From your post I see you are more or less in the same state I was in after first finishing. Everyone's got their theories and speculations, especially regarding Snape and Horcruxes, so feel free to add some more fuel to the fire.