The Triumvirate

[Terracosmo]

Strike Freedom, you sound like a generic Kira fanboy who tries to defend your favorite character from the obvious fact that he isn't progressing anymore. There is never an excuse for that; a good character keeps evolving. Kira is just boring and predictable now. This could have been avoided easily, by him at least once reflecting over the fact that his "pacifist ways" kills just as much in the end as it would have even if he killed people outright.

Kira is just a coward who doesn't dare to stain his own hands any longer.

And for the love of coffee, don't EVER compare Kira to Jesus again. That's just scary.

Edit: Note also that "but this is Shinn's show, it's his turn to develop" is not a valid argument because Kira's screentime is ridiculously big already, for a show that isn't even supposed to be about him in the first place.

[zn|¹]

There is no need for Kira to develop any further, he has reached his potential as an individual. Kira is the way he is because he did kill people, though he didn't want to; he was forced to walk down a path he did not choose, rather it was forced upon him under circumstances; he did not see the point in war and fighting, he had to find some meaning to all the madness going on in the war; he lost people he cared about though he tried to protect them, that is why he protects everyone now. Think of it like this, Kira reached spirtual enlightenment (like the Budha) after he ended up with Lacus. While with her, he lost his will to fight. However, after losing his will he regained it with a purpose, to protect. Now hating on Kira is like hating on Jesus for the way he was, it just doesn't make sense. I understand not everyone thinks alike, further not everyone can understand such concepts or believe such things as enlightenment, but there are those who do and have experienced them. So KIRA is the best, and that is all there is to it. I believe Shinn might reach a point of enlightenment as well, but who knows with the amount of episodes that are left.

Judging from what was stated there it almost sounds like Kira is a cheap knock off of Kenshin...with a Gundam instead of a sword. And you my friend; I suggest you use less commas @_@.

[Freki]

While I agree that kira would have been a better character in this series if there had been some sort of development on his part, I disagree that his pacifist ways kill as many people. I mean I am sure some people die when he disables them, I bet that a good deal of them make it back to home base for repairs. His ways don't get anything accomplished really, but I think there are at least some people who live that would have died otherwise. Kira has pretty much stayed his course since the beginning, and the fact that he seems to have choosen right doesnt change the fact that it makes the character uninteresting. to watch when all his actions could be predicted. I personally think Shinn too suffers from little development. Since the start of the show Shinn has simply done what makes him feel good at the time whether that be fighting, following orders, or commiting treason. Finally now Shinn seems to have a little sense of regreting his course of action but for the majority of the show his past actions have not really had any kind of consequences and he hasn't needed to change. Athrun seems to be the character who has struggled the most out of the 3 and seems to have made the most progress as a character to me.

[PSJ]

To me the lack of character development hasn't just been a problem with Kira. Athrun didn't do anything before he left in the gouf, he just screamed "KIRAAA!" "HEINEEE!" "SHINNNN!" "REYYYY!" and slapped Shinn a couple of times because he could. Shinn has had the most progression as a character and he should have since this was originally his show. But it still is lacking overall this far.

I think there will be an orgy in char development the last 10 episodes, at least i hope so. It would make things interesting.

And start using fucking paragraphs. It's a pain reading a fucking post that looks like that Freki.

[fox_t]

Originally posted by: PSJ

I think there will be an orgy in char development the last 10 episodes, at least i hope so. It would make things interesting.

just like how it was in GS...

same as it was in Evangelion...

i think a good series has things and plot twists happening right up until the last minute...

Originally posted by: PSJ
But it still is lacking overall this far.

I have to agree with this also...with Shinn being the exception...


but overall i think it`s been a great series...i really like GS/D...i think it`s been one of the better gundam series...

and for all those complaining about new units only being introduced to sell more kits...well...here`s an idea...stop buying them...

[Strike Freedom]

So much hate, where is the love?
BTW, there is never a case where too much commas is a bad thing.

Secondly, the only rebuttals I've had in return is that I'm a "Kira fanboy" and that he isn't progressing anymore. I did not get any VALID argument on what I stated. If your argument is that he is not developing then I already stated mine in the previous post. The arguments presented by some of you are just a repeat of what was already stated by you. If you're going to repeat your argument what is the point in posting.

I understand some of you don't like Kira because he is boring, whimpy, dorky, lucky, overpowering, girly, has the luck of Steven Segal because he just will not die, because he uses too many commas like I do, etc! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] But come on now, there are ppl who like him as is, why change a character if he is immensely popular?

Lastly, I know as well as anyone this is Shinn's spotlight, but if you don't like Kira taking some of it then I suggest you don't want the show. I want Shinn to develop. The reason that Athuran and Kira do not develop now (maybe later on in the series they will) is for the mere fact that this is Shinn's show. So why would they want to develop three characters, especially two that have already developed in GS. It just is more time consuming, in my opinion.

Come on people, come up with some better defences.

PS: coffee is good....mmmmmmmm [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[Terracosmo]

Firstly, who defines what "better defences" is? You? Me? Or might it even be a individual decision what a suitable defense is? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Secondly, what I wrote wasn't necessarily defense - but rather my own take on Kira using your post as a paragraph.

[PSJ]

I like Kira but even i can get tired of him sometimes. A little development wouldn't hurt, he doesn't feel complete yet. He is still naive enough to think that he alone can do any diffrence in an entire war which he can't. He needs to step down from his high horse and develop some. I can understand why people detest him but i don't, he got his flaws to. People claim they like Shinn cause of his flaws and says Kira is complete, he is far from complete.

The argument "This is Shinn's show" is weak as we know now that is not the case all 3 of them share the show. The argument that Kira and Athrun developed in SEED is also weak as Athrun is back at square one and Kira is still naive just like he was in SEED.

I would like you to develop the Kira-Jesus agrument a bit. Just to see if you truly did have a thought behind that or just threw out Jesus because he is the embodiment of good and self sacrifice in which case you consider Kira sacrificing himself.

[aznimperialx]

i feel like athrun is the main character cuz everything is about him in destiny

[Strike Freedom]

Terracosmo, I agree with your statement, it is all subjective on the subject of defence. There is no objective view. I was referring to my point of view [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]. Secondly, I respect your take on the matter, and I just gave my input as well, I have enjoyed this virtual conversation thus far! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

PSJ, if I threw it out there for that thought then that is putting some thought into it, regarding the Jesus comparison. Kira is the ultimate coordinator, as such he surpasses all humans and coordinators, in a way the perfect being. Jesus is seen as the perfect human being as well. Yes, that thought was in my head, Jesus and Kira both encompass in my view what appears to be "good." Now I say "good" because it is a subjective statement, others may differ. Kira is self sacraficing, he does not want to fight but feels he must in order to make a difference. He truly believes that one person can make a difference, and he is that difference. Jesus did the same thing by dying on the cross. Kira and Jesus both preach about the right thing to do. I could go more into depth into this but this is not a report. However, I know there are those that will disagree or say this is weak because honestly I do not have the time right now to go into depth with this theory. However, let it be known that Kira is a good person in my eyes, true he has his flaws but he is going down what he believes is his right path.

I definitely disagree with your statement in that he cannot make a difference. One person can make a difference.

Let us look at some people, both bad and good or none of the above in some people's views that have made a difference: Jesus, Ghandi, Mother Theresa, Hitler, Stalin, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Jackie Robinson, Martin Luther King Jr, Martin Luther, John Paul II, Alexander the Great, Ceaser, Achilles (though fictitious), Moses, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, and so on.

The power to believe is beyond that of any other power, only Love surpasses it. If he truly believed that he could not make a difference then Kira would have never tried. Here's a life lesson: you are your worst enemy at times. Think about it, how many times have we placed barriers on ourselves, thus limiting ourselves in different ways. "I can't do this" or "this will never work" or "I'll never win" or "What's the point" or "Who cares" are all statements we tell ourselves in order to justify our inability to act and believe in ourselves. I myself have fallen victim to this at times. Yet, though many may doubt you, if you have the guts to stickup for what you believe in and keep trying, I assure you that although failure may be constant there wil be victory in the end. There may be many reasons that hold us back from doing something: fear, inability to fully believe in one self, and so on.

I do think Kira has made a difference and will make a difference in GSD. No he hasn't is what some may say, but I say look at the facts: Athuran is back with AA thanks to Kira, Cagalli regained her will thanks to Kira and Lacus' support as well as that of her people, Kira saved the Eternal from what might have been its destruction and/or defeat, Kira has protected Lacus from various attacks, and so on. It may be safe to say that without Kira, the events that have taken place thus far would be different. Some may say it is an insignificant difference, others a great difference, others could be neutral, the point is that he has made some difference in my eyes.

Lastly, Kira is not naive, rather he is idealistic. Naive would be equivalent to ignorant and Kira is not that. Kira knows the path he must walk, in GS he had no idea why he was fighting. Kira wants a resolution without battles, he does not want to kill anyone. Towards the end of GS this is how Kira began thinking. Athuran is not back to square one. It is just that events have repeated themselves (history repeats itself). Athuran was doing what he felt was right when joining Zaft. He felt useless just being by Cagalli's side. He wanted to do what he thought was right. He believed the Chairman was an upright and just man. The Chairman spoke of goals that were similar to Athuran's view. If you recall in the beginning the Chairman wanted a peaceful resolution to things. Athuran is in the same predicament as in GS, but it does not mean that he as a character is back to square one. His thoughts are different, he's a bit more mature, and he under different circumstances. In GS, he was conflicted (as was Kira) in facing his best friend, he had many other conflictions later on in "what he was fighting for." None of that exists here, Athuran (in GSD) knows that he is fighting to uphold what he believes in, the right path. In GSD, he was fighting out of anger. He wanted revenge and he felt justified. Athuran in GSD is not fighting to feel justified, he has no reason to.

I read that so many people want more character development out of them, I then have a response: How do you want them to develop more? What do you want to see? I feel that they have reached a point in which they are walking the right path in their hearts and minds, if so then there is no need to change any further. Think of it like this, if a person is comfortable with their way of living why would they change it. The only reason people aspire for more or to change is that there must be a desire within the person. But if the person is fine in their current state, then he/she will not want to change or most likely will not change. I hope I make myself clear here, but if not please let me know and I would love to explain it more in depth. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[fox_t]

well said.

[masamuneehs]

I still think he's a douche bag.
And he should be dead. Twice. Doubly dead.
I believe he is a hypocrite for fighting with his Gundam to stop others from fighting. His no-killing stance hasn't changed at all since the end of Seed (he even tried to not kill Stellar) and he still agrees with just about everything Lacus Clyne says. He still wants to do the right thing and still kicks ass in an MS, making his role in battles tediously predictable whenever he shows up.

Strike Freedom's defense is damn good, but I remain unbudged, unphased and still an avid Kira-hater. Wait, make that a Kira-but-only-in-Destiny- Hater.

I don't care if he believes he is walking the right path, or if he "doesn't need to develop any more". I've said a million times why I think he's too good to be an enjoyable character, so I won't do so again. I demand action, I demand variety, I demand intrigue from my anime.

[PSJ]

True one person can make a diffrence but one soldier cannot stop a whole war. That's pretty much what i meant but it came out wrong. Kira is naive in thinking that he alone can stop the EAF and ZAFT from fighting.

I Disagree that we put barriers on ourselves, at least to a certain extent. It's true we do it sometimes but knowing your own limits and thus knowing yourself is needed if you want to surpass yourself. In Kiras case seeing that what he does doesn't work would enable him to try to find diffrent ways to get his point across, that would be great development for his character.