I just wanted to point out that I believe that Mwu's apparent revival obeys all death laws in GS/D. Sure Strive disintegrated, but the destruction of an MS never means death. So by SEED rules, he never actually died.
I just wanted to point out that I believe that Mwu's apparent revival obeys all death laws in GS/D. Sure Strive disintegrated, but the destruction of an MS never means death. So by SEED rules, he never actually died.
This is true in cases where they don't see the shattered helmet of the guy who dies floating in space. Thats not exactly something survivable.Originally posted by: fox_t
I just wanted to point out that I believe that Mwu's apparent revival obeys all death laws in GS/D. Sure Strive disintegrated, but the destruction of an MS never means death. So by SEED rules, he never actually died.
Then again Gundam Seed has drilled one thing into our head. If the show does not show a cockpit of the character in question getting sliced, exploding or the whole MS exploding around him/her, it is guranteed that the character has survived to fight another day. They could show a scene of scattered parts belonging to the character(except body) and he/she would just pop up again.
Grunts are exempted from the above logic. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
Edit: Of course the show has failed to explain how Mwu managed to find air without his helmut....in space!!! For the helmut to get into space it has to go somewhere out of the cockpit...which usually means the cockpit has been breached. Of course it's still up in the air whether Neo is Mwu, though the general opinion seems to be swaying to the 'yes' camp...
Amaya, the Tauren Warrior
hey, when you're designing a mobile suit or some shit like that..the main priority is of course the pilot's safety is the priority.
apparently, the safety standards in seed si so good such that pilots can survive conditions even cockroaches can't.
Somehow gundams are superior in cockpit design it seems, grunts suits have it tough with inferior designs that can't even save a pilot. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
Lets just leave it at the fact that its up to the director to decide who he wants dead or alive.
Amaya, the Tauren Warrior
Yeah, Gundams are fairly safe - you can get a new freedom, but you can't get a new kira [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
Well they could basically say a junker found the cockpit still sealed and upon opening it noticed Mwu's helmet glass was shattered and quickly discarded it resealed the cockpit and found him a new one. The only issue is they show the wreckage and helmet immediately after the explosion so we all assume he died.Originally posted by: DragonBladeX
Then again Gundam Seed has drilled one thing into our head. If the show does not show a cockpit of the character in question getting sliced, exploding or the whole MS exploding around him/her, it is guranteed that the character has survived to fight another day. They could show a scene of scattered parts belonging to the character(except body) and he/she would just pop up again.
Grunts are exempted from the above logic. [img][/img]
Edit: Of course the show has failed to explain how Mwu managed to find air without his helmut....in space!!! For the helmut to get into space it has to go somewhere out of the cockpit...which usually means the cockpit has been breached. Of course it's still up in the air whether Neo is Mwu, though the general opinion seems to be swaying to the 'yes' camp...
I just dont like how ppl cry in every single episodes...
meh. Im just not the emotional masturbation type.
hmmm waht about the time, oh no nope...umm what about...nope...hey your right, some guy ALWAYS crys! theres never been 3 episodes in a row i dont think where nobody cries. but this show is anything but disappointing.
could Djibril have been the 1 to found Mwu/Neo??
LaZie made this...a long time ago.
"It was a very depressing time in my life, since I had no money I was unable to screw the rules" -Kaiba
While it's true that this series was written after they realised how much money they had made with GS, what do we care, we just download the episodes from the net for free, and the content is all that matters.
and i'm totally hooked by the story, and some of the scenes were the coolest ones in anything gundam.
You make alot of reasonable points. Also, I hate it when pilots survive exploding gundams...
I will agree that the show has failed on the part of developing the characters. For the most part this development has been either unreasonably slow and stunted or super-fast and unbelievably radical. I partly feel that concentrating character deaths within a 5 episode span is the cause of this. & then we have Cagalli and Lacus Faction, which developed slightly in result of being attacked & ORB joining EAF, but then have fallen right back into their roles from GS, which means basically zero development for them...
Second, the fan service is pretty high, but not so much that it dettracts from the show.
Third, the blatant excuse to introduce new mecha in order to bolster Model Kit sales is becoming fairly obvious and guides the pacing of teh series more than anything else, which is shameful. Just like last Seed, around 25-30 we have lots of people die, Gundams and other things destroyed. Then they start getting new Gundams and things about 4 or 5 episodes later, face a new batch of replacements with new upgraded rehashes of previous Gundams (Deathscythe, Wing & well I dunno what the 3rd one can be compared to- bacially the EAF druggies in GS) and give the baddie a cool Gundam too.
I do believe this pacing is in order to sell models. I also believe characters are kept alive so that people will want to buy the next model that their favorite character gets to pilot, even though he/she should be dead...
Fourth, invincible, unquestionable characters and leaders. I've spoken volumes on why particular characters should have died and didn't in GS, but needless to say it detracts from the show when you know Character X & Y are invincible and will always whoop any opponent and even if they do appear to be bested, they'll get a new, better Gundam later and kick that fools' ass anyhow. Then you have leaders not properly being questioned on their judgment calls who suddenly have assloads of authority for no particular reason. Yuna Roma, Dullindal's easilly keeping secrets from the security council, Lacus leading a fucking group of people (she's a pop star you idiots)
Fifth, for an anime as preachy on war and shit like that, there is almost no political action or plotline whatsoever. It mostly consists of, A wants political power, conspires to oust B from power, A uses power for some immoral end. & then we have rapid power shifts and new leaders seemlessly transitioning in with little opposition. We don't know anything about the structure of the EAF, anything about ZAFT's politicians besides Dullindal, anything about why Scandinavia is neutral or how they came to be. And then there are all these nations just switching from EAF to ZAFT, with no reference to who their leaders are, why they switched, or if the people just outright revolted.
Where Gundam Wing had too much politics and also invincible characters, Destiny is worse (my opinion) because it has virtually no political dialogue, slightly less indestructible characters.
Fifth, without pointing fingers at specific characters:
IF you were the biggest part of ending the last war, shouldn't you be involved in maintaining the world order afterwards rather than retiring to some remote island?
IF you need someone to be your pawn who is stronger than you and over-emotional, why don't you try to employ more than gruff orders and stern advise when manipulating them?
IF you don't know who to fight or why you're fighting, how can you tell others not to, and then leave them without a means to fight?
IF you hate Coordinators, why would you ever give the Destroy plans to one? And the identities of your secret group?
IF you were in an invicible Mobile Armor, why would you take off the huge shields to turn into a slow as shit MS when fighting 2 ultra-quick MSs?
IF you're happy and you know it clap your hands.
IF you're losing a war, why don't you change your battle tactics / begin dialogue for a peace treaty?
The 1st, 3rd, 4th and last questions are what bother me the most. It just doesn't seem logical at all.
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
I say it's how they picked their main character. arragont fool who blames everyone but himself. come on people we all watched GSD because of kira and athuran, not shin or anyone else.
Wow...if you have that many complaints about the series stop watching it. Why are you wasting your time?Originally posted by: masamuneehs
I will agree that the show has failed on the part of developing the characters. For the most part this development has been either unreasonably slow and stunted or super-fast and unbelievably radical. I partly feel that concentrating character deaths within a 5 episode span is the cause of this. & then we have Cagalli and Lacus Faction, which developed slightly in result of being attacked & ORB joining EAF, but then have fallen right back into their roles from GS, which means basically zero development for them...
Second, the fan service is pretty high, but not so much that it dettracts from the show.
Third, the blatant excuse to introduce new mecha in order to bolster Model Kit sales is becoming fairly obvious and guides the pacing of teh series more than anything else, which is shameful. Just like last Seed, around 25-30 we have lots of people die, Gundams and other things destroyed. Then they start getting new Gundams and things about 4 or 5 episodes later, face a new batch of replacements with new upgraded rehashes of previous Gundams (Deathscythe, Wing & well I dunno what the 3rd one can be compared to- bacially the EAF druggies in GS) and give the baddie a cool Gundam too.
I do believe this pacing is in order to sell models. I also believe characters are kept alive so that people will want to buy the next model that their favorite character gets to pilot, even though he/she should be dead...
Fourth, invincible, unquestionable characters and leaders. I've spoken volumes on why particular characters should have died and didn't in GS, but needless to say it detracts from the show when you know Character X & Y are invincible and will always whoop any opponent and even if they do appear to be bested, they'll get a new, better Gundam later and kick that fools' ass anyhow. Then you have leaders not properly being questioned on their judgment calls who suddenly have assloads of authority for no particular reason. Yuna Roma, Dullindal's easilly keeping secrets from the security council, Lacus leading a fucking group of people (she's a pop star you idiots)
Fifth, for an anime as preachy on war and shit like that, there is almost no political action or plotline whatsoever. It mostly consists of, A wants political power, conspires to oust B from power, A uses power for some immoral end. & then we have rapid power shifts and new leaders seemlessly transitioning in with little opposition. We don't know anything about the structure of the EAF, anything about ZAFT's politicians besides Dullindal, anything about why Scandinavia is neutral or how they came to be. And then there are all these nations just switching from EAF to ZAFT, with no reference to who their leaders are, why they switched, or if the people just outright revolted.
Where Gundam Wing had too much politics and also invincible characters, Destiny is worse (my opinion) because it has virtually no political dialogue, slightly less indestructible characters.
Fifth, without pointing fingers at specific characters:
IF you were the biggest part of ending the last war, shouldn't you be involved in maintaining the world order afterwards rather than retiring to some remote island?
IF you need someone to be your pawn who is stronger than you and over-emotional, why don't you try to employ more than gruff orders and stern advise when manipulating them?
IF you don't know who to fight or why you're fighting, how can you tell others not to, and then leave them without a means to fight?
IF you hate Coordinators, why would you ever give the Destroy plans to one? And the identities of your secret group?
IF you were in an invicible Mobile Armor, why would you take off the huge shields to turn into a slow as shit MS when fighting 2 ultra-quick MSs?
IF you're happy and you know it clap your hands.
IF you're losing a war, why don't you change your battle tactics / begin dialogue for a peace treaty?
The 1st, 3rd, 4th and last questions are what bother me the most. It just doesn't seem logical at all.
Another thing, I don`t see how you can say that GSD does anything worse than Wing. That cuts your credibility by at least half.
As for you questions...
Kira is not a politician. You leave the politics to the politicians. Before you even utter the words, Lacus is an activist, not a politician. Cagilli tried but she was too young to remain strong in her convictions and was easily overthrown by more experienced individuals.Originally posted by: masamuneehs
IF you were the biggest part of ending the last war, shouldn't you be involved in maintaining the world order afterwards rather than retiring to some remote island?
I don`t see how this is relevant to any issue that GSD addresses.Originally posted by: masamuneehs
IF you need someone to be your pawn who is stronger than you and over-emotional, why don't you try to employ more than gruff orders and stern advise when manipulating them?
I suppose u`re talking about the Clyne Faction, Orb, Freedom Vs. Saviour...just who are you talking about. All I know is they`re point is war is not a means through which peace can be attained.Originally posted by: masamuneehs
IF you don't know who to fight or why you're fighting, how can you tell others not to, and then leave them without a means to fight?
be answered in due time. That`s why you wThe series isn`t over and I`m sure this will atch the whole thing, so you can complete the story.Originally posted by: masamuneehs
IF you hate Coordinators, why would you ever give the Destroy plans to one? And the identities of your secret group?
Even in it`s Mobile Armor form destroy is not invincible.Originally posted by: masamuneehs
IF you were in an invicible Mobile Armor, why would you take off the huge shields to turn into a slow as shit MS when fighting 2 ultra-quick MSs?
You`ve obviously missed one of the central conflicts of GS/D.Originally posted by: masamuneehs
IF you're losing a war, why don't you change your battle tactics / begin dialogue for a peace treaty?
the show hasnt failed me at least, i love it, every single scene of it
Same as for me ^_^
Enjoyable through almost every episodes. I'm just thinking if most people think that GSD failed to satisfy them, why not just stop watcing and just rewatch the original series? So much complaint out of it when you're watching it for FREE...
you put it in words better than i could. that was one of the main points i was trying to drive at...Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Third, the blatant excuse to introduce new mecha in order to bolster Model Kit sales is becoming fairly obvious and guides the pacing of teh series more than anything else, which is shameful. Just like last Seed, around 25-30 we have lots of people die, Gundams and other things destroyed. Then they start getting new Gundams and things about 4 or 5 episodes later, face a new batch of replacements with new upgraded rehashes of previous Gundams (Deathscythe, Wing & well I dunno what the 3rd one can be compared to- bacially the EAF druggies in GS) and give the baddie a cool Gundam too.
I do believe this pacing is in order to sell models. I also believe characters are kept alive so that people will want to buy the next model that their favorite character gets to pilot, even though he/she should be dead...
well said. invincibility does get annoying at times especially for the 'ace's. like... wtf are the producers thinking. is it just so that shinn's ego can inflate beyond the size of zepplins thinking he's killed kira and athrun? or is this some ploy for fukuda to get us to hate shinn more when he is, after all, the protagonist of the show? oh wait.. it's probably another ploy to induce more model sales by cheapening the storyline... destroy old gundam, bring in a new one -.-;Fourth, invincible, unquestionable characters and leaders. I've spoken volumes on why particular characters should have died and didn't in GS, but needless to say it detracts from the show when you know Character X & Y are invincible and will always whoop any opponent and even if they do appear to be bested, they'll get a new, better Gundam later and kick that fools' ass anyhow. Then you have leaders not properly being questioned on their judgment calls who suddenly have assloads of authority for no particular reason. Yuna Roma, Dullindal's easilly keeping secrets from the security council, Lacus leading a fucking group of people (she's a pop star you idiots)
actually i'm rather intrigued of the political aspect of GSD. it's one of the main points that keeps this story going albeit, there are a few plot holes. the political aspect is pretty straight-foward with another war coming in and dullindal holding reins of the military. Orb gets meshed into the war as well. GSD, however, fails to point out the smaller details like how or why Europe was 'colluding' with ZAFT and why Neo's team was sent there to neutralize the enemy. WTF were the logos leaders thinking?Fifth, for an anime as preachy on war and shit like that, there is almost no political action or plotline whatsoever. It mostly consists of, A wants political power, conspires to oust B from power, A uses power for some immoral end. & then we have rapid power shifts and new leaders seemlessly transitioning in with little opposition. We don't know anything about the structure of the EAF, anything about ZAFT's politicians besides Dullindal, anything about why Scandinavia is neutral or how they came to be. And then there are all these nations just switching from EAF to ZAFT, with no reference to who their leaders are, why they switched, or if the people just outright revolted.
fox_t said it best. kira is .. or rather was, a soldier and not a politician.Fifth, without pointing fingers at specific characters:
IF you were the biggest part of ending the last war, shouldn't you be involved in maintaining the world order afterwards rather than retiring to some remote island?
what dullindal's doing now is working for shinn. athrun, however, was a vet. through the war so only HE knows how to handle his conflicted emotions.IF you need someone to be your pawn who is stronger than you and over-emotional, why don't you try to employ more than gruff orders and stern advise when manipulating them?
a good question. the one who is incapacitated is only left open to enemies. which makes the actions taken by the lacus/archangel faction are rather puzzling. they're probably thinking its some sort of brother rivalry situation and they're the mother, where issues get resolved by taking away the means to hurt each other. But the problem goes deeper than that... and not as simpleIF you don't know who to fight or why you're fighting, how can you tell others not to, and then leave them without a means to fight?
Depends on who you mean by losing the war. Logos and EAF are completely different stories. EAF is rather simple, because they realize the influence of dullindal and how his words have spread across the earth. For the Logos, that is because they're greedy, dirty politicians. Even if they were to surrender, they could never be able to face the world again.IF you're losing a war, why don't you change your battle tactics / begin dialogue for a peace treaty?
Overall, I agree with a lot of the points you've made masamuneehs. despite however much i am disappointed with this series, i will keep watching it
I'm too tired to counter anyone's logic... but i'll offer my opinion... I find Gundam SEED destiny, better than the first SEED. not as a standalone of course, but as building up of something. SEED started slow while Destiny started with drums rolling. also, Destiny has put the political intrigue to another level which is nice... all and all, if they don't mess up the end, I will definitely say I prefer Destiny to SEED.
hey, don't even compare gundam seed with gundam wing
gundam wing was run by a bunch of robots. gundam seed at least we know they are humans.
i think what is needed is a bit of narration at the beginning, instead of having recaps, just tell a bit on how the politics went on and stuff like that.
other than that..no need to work yourself and make a big deal out of it. this thing has its loopholes and stuff like that. but what show doesn't?
its better sometimes to sit back, relax and enjoy the ride.
don't think too much and take things for granted, you'll enjoy it more.
forgive me for being a simpleton.
but other than that, can someone tell me why in the middle of the series, the EAF suddenly became tryants?
That's so completely wrong. Destiny has the most insane gundams and characters, by far than most Gundam series.Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Where Gundam Wing had too much politics and also invincible characters, Destiny is worse (my opinion) because it has virtually no political dialogue, slightly less indestructible characters.
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