Phase 35 is out (RAW)

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
lah blah blah, Shinn is indirectly, or directly, (however you put it), responsible for the deaths, blah blah blah. It's the same line from you >_< Forget it, I'm not going to bash my head against a brick wall to try and get you to see reason instead of pinning just about everything bad in the series on Shinn.

Oh, did you notice DDBen that Kira was not the one responsible for the "Let us look like we're dead so we can escape" idea? And that he's feeling guilty about losing Freedom like that? Makes it seem like *gasp* he's not the godly character you (and others) tried to paint him up as last thread. Oh noej, t3h sky is falling, t3h sky is falling!@!!!11!1!

Kira turned off his phase shift armor in the middle of a hydrogen bomb to prevent a nuclear explosion. So I would certainly say that constitutes sacrificing yourself so that the AA can get away. The damage was purely allowed by Kira to prevent anyone dying who didn't need to. He shut down the reactor. I never once painted him as a god I did say it would make sense to use the shield to deflect the sword to a nonvital area. In the end he survived and has lived to fight another day meaning that Shinn failed while Kira succeded in there mission objectives.

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
The reason why you might think that I'm counter-pointing myself in argument to your past statement Is that I disagree with your opinion that a poster-boy is the same thing as a "Loyal Brainwashed Fanatic", when it isnt. Calling Shinn a loyal subbordinate counteracts the same thing you were presenting earlier, that "Shinn has gone against his orders time and time again", that would be insubordination. If Dullindal wanted a brainwashed loyalist, he would use Rey. However, Shinn has the background of mediocrity to push his image in the PR campaign to the people, Dullindal would only brainwash him to simply make it easier to push his propoganda, however at the moment Shinn's actions have corresponded with what Dullindal wants of him. Dullindal won't forwardly try to make him a "yes man" , giving him the freedom to act on his own is what is keeping Shinn loyal and I believe that Dullindal realizes that.

I never called Shinn loyal. I simply stated that his actions benifit Dullindale's plans. The fact is that Shinn will goto any battlefield that Dullindale tells him to as long as he properly strokes Shinn's ego. Say with a shiney new nuclear toy of mass destruction. He has absolutely gone against the orders of Zaft which is the reason he should be repremanded. However he also believes that Dullindale understands his sense of Justice and in that manor he goes where ever he's told. He's a horrible PR guy without editing the footage to you benefit. Also note there is absolutely no reason for Zaft to make Strike freedom or Infinate Justice if Dullindale actually thought his puppet named Shinn was ever fully controllable. He's simply a piece in his game to be sacrificed and replaced the moment he acts against his boss.

[Jurojin]

"

Kira turned off his phase shift armor in the middle of a hydrogen bomb to prevent a nuclear explosion. So I would certainly say that constitutes sacrificing yourself so that the AA can get away. The damage was purely allowed by Kira to prevent anyone dying who didn't need to. He shut down the reactor. I never once painted him as a god I did say it would make sense to use the shield to deflect the sword to a nonvital area. In the end he survived and has lived to fight another day meaning that Shinn failed while Kira succeded in there mission objectives.

"


Or he shut down the reactor to prevent his own death ~_~ I give up. You're beyond saving.

[Vegita]

I agree with Jurojin. DDBen you are reading far too much into the motives of Kira when you are simply speculating. Are you going to stop, or is this discussion going absolutely nowhere?

[Motteh]

Kira turned off the reactor to save lives, whether it be just his own life or the lives of others as well doesn't really matter
point is that ZAFT's objective to destroy Freedom has been accomplished and in fact Shinn's objective has been completed as well, the objective was to take down Freedom, for both ZAFT and Shinn, and it's safe to say they have succeeded in that
the other part of the mission was to take down ArchAngel, in which they know they have not succeeded because it has been established that there is too little wreckage for ArchAngel to be destroyed
so in this case you have ArchAngel missing it's ace in the hole,
Athrun torn up by Kira's death (to him he can't be anything but dead) and by the chairman's behaviour/motives and thus planning his defection,
Shinn is very content with his victory over Freedom and his new mobile suit,
Dullindal is planning a new future for the world and Rey,
yes Rey's behaviour seems to support with Dullindal's motives but i'm still in the dark about his personal motives
so Rey is still somewhat of an enigma to me, although all the flashbacks to Rau seem to say that Rey will not be a supporter of Lacus and her little army

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
"

Kira turned off his phase shift armor in the middle of a hydrogen bomb to prevent a nuclear explosion. So I would certainly say that constitutes sacrificing yourself so that the AA can get away. The damage was purely allowed by Kira to prevent anyone dying who didn't need to. He shut down the reactor. I never once painted him as a god I did say it would make sense to use the shield to deflect the sword to a nonvital area. In the end he survived and has lived to fight another day meaning that Shinn failed while Kira succeded in there mission objectives.

"


Or he shut down the reactor to prevent his own death ~_~ I give up. You're beyond saving.

If he only cared about his own life he would not have turned off his phase shift armor and his power supply. his concern was for everyone on the battlefield except himself. You can not take a act like that and turn it selfish by any rational means.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: DDBen
If he only cared about his own life he would not have turned off his phase shift armor and his power supply. his concern was for everyone on the battlefield except himself. You can not take a act like that and turn it selfish by any rational means.

tell me, assuming he turned of the nuclear reactor to prevent it from exploding and thus risking everyone's life
how would he have saved his own life by leaving it on after being penetrated by the sword and thus having it explode?
he turned it off just as much to save his own life as others
and being a typical human being, he will most likely put his own life first

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Motteh

Originally posted by: DDBen
If he only cared about his own life he would not have turned off his phase shift armor and his power supply. his concern was for everyone on the battlefield except himself. You can not take a act like that and turn it selfish by any rational means.

tell me, assuming he turned of the nuclear reactor to prevent it from exploding and thus risking everyone's life
how would he have saved his own life by leaving it on after being penetrated by the sword and thus having it explode?
he turned it off just as much to save his own life as others
and being a typical human being, he will most likely put his own life first

The differnce is quite simply phase shift armor vs none. Not knowing the exact location of the nuclear core in freedom its very difficult to state weather or not Shinn's blow would have damaged the core in the first place. However as the sword had already penitraighted freedom in its entirety its fairly safe to say it had done the majority of damage it was capable of inflicting to freedom at that point. Note that Kira in his actions also disabled the head and hands of Impulse. Being the secondary explosion was about to hit which I'm sure both Kira and Shinn were aware of at the time. That explosion reguardless of the damage Shinn dealt could have still sent the reactor nuclear. If the reactor had exploded at the very least both Minerva and AA and all those aboard would have been killed in a instant.

Also Kira tried until the very end not to Kill Shinn with his final blow with the beam saber he could have looked to drive it through the cockpit had he aimed yet that was absolutely never his intention. The point is yes a average human would attempt to save his own life first but that is certainly not how Kira's character has been written at any point otherwise he would have never gotten off the couch to be involved in the first place.

edit: I guess I should actually answer your question while I'm at it. By leaving the phase shift armor intact during the hydrogen explosion Freedom would have had a FAR better chance of surviving however it would have risked the reactor going critical. The fact he turned it off to take the full brunt of it was not in any way done to protect himself.

[NineTailsKitsu]

Just a few small notes, this time. One, by the positioning of Impulse in his final strike at Freedom, Kira wouldn't have been able to hit it's cockpit. Two, more than likely Kira realized that the possibility of himself dying with this strike was very high and (Kira being who kira is) Didn't want the AA to be destroyed by the possible nuclear blast from his core and thus disengaged it. To save lives, yes this is true. However, weigh his friends lives over the Minerva and Shinn. Don't make that out to be more than it is.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
Just a few small notes, this time. One, by the positioning of Impulse in his final strike at Freedom, Kira wouldn't have been able to hit it's cockpit. Two, more than likely Kira realized that the possibility of himself dying with this strike was very high and (Kira being who kira is) Didn't want the AA to be destroyed by the possible nuclear blast from his core and thus disengaged it. To save lives, yes this is true. However, weigh his friends lives over the Minerva and Shinn. Don't make that out to be more than it is.

Kira has not in GSD made any distinction between the lives of friend or foe. In GS he did kill thats very blantant but he has yet to kill anyone reguardless of side in GSD. I do however agree he values the lives of those on AA above those on Minerva Athran aside.

Kira could have absolutely made a downward slash into Impulses body instead of a slash so simply decapitate it and remove the hands I don't see it as accurate that he made his attack without thinking about it.