I agree with Jurojin. DDBen you are reading far too much into the motives of Kira when you are simply speculating. Are you going to stop, or is this discussion going absolutely nowhere?
I agree with Jurojin. DDBen you are reading far too much into the motives of Kira when you are simply speculating. Are you going to stop, or is this discussion going absolutely nowhere?
Kira turned off the reactor to save lives, whether it be just his own life or the lives of others as well doesn't really matter
point is that ZAFT's objective to destroy Freedom has been accomplished and in fact Shinn's objective has been completed as well, the objective was to take down Freedom, for both ZAFT and Shinn, and it's safe to say they have succeeded in that
the other part of the mission was to take down ArchAngel, in which they know they have not succeeded because it has been established that there is too little wreckage for ArchAngel to be destroyed
so in this case you have ArchAngel missing it's ace in the hole,
Athrun torn up by Kira's death (to him he can't be anything but dead) and by the chairman's behaviour/motives and thus planning his defection,
Shinn is very content with his victory over Freedom and his new mobile suit,
Dullindal is planning a new future for the world and Rey,
yes Rey's behaviour seems to support with Dullindal's motives but i'm still in the dark about his personal motives
so Rey is still somewhat of an enigma to me, although all the flashbacks to Rau seem to say that Rey will not be a supporter of Lacus and her little army
Love is fiction, misery is my only friend
Originally posted by: Jurojin
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Kira turned off his phase shift armor in the middle of a hydrogen bomb to prevent a nuclear explosion. So I would certainly say that constitutes sacrificing yourself so that the AA can get away. The damage was purely allowed by Kira to prevent anyone dying who didn't need to. He shut down the reactor. I never once painted him as a god I did say it would make sense to use the shield to deflect the sword to a nonvital area. In the end he survived and has lived to fight another day meaning that Shinn failed while Kira succeded in there mission objectives.
"
Or he shut down the reactor to prevent his own death ~_~ I give up. You're beyond saving.
If he only cared about his own life he would not have turned off his phase shift armor and his power supply. his concern was for everyone on the battlefield except himself. You can not take a act like that and turn it selfish by any rational means.
tell me, assuming he turned of the nuclear reactor to prevent it from exploding and thus risking everyone's lifeOriginally posted by: DDBen
If he only cared about his own life he would not have turned off his phase shift armor and his power supply. his concern was for everyone on the battlefield except himself. You can not take a act like that and turn it selfish by any rational means.
how would he have saved his own life by leaving it on after being penetrated by the sword and thus having it explode?
he turned it off just as much to save his own life as others
and being a typical human being, he will most likely put his own life first
Love is fiction, misery is my only friend
Originally posted by: Motteh
tell me, assuming he turned of the nuclear reactor to prevent it from exploding and thus risking everyone's lifeOriginally posted by: DDBen
If he only cared about his own life he would not have turned off his phase shift armor and his power supply. his concern was for everyone on the battlefield except himself. You can not take a act like that and turn it selfish by any rational means.
how would he have saved his own life by leaving it on after being penetrated by the sword and thus having it explode?
he turned it off just as much to save his own life as others
and being a typical human being, he will most likely put his own life first
The differnce is quite simply phase shift armor vs none. Not knowing the exact location of the nuclear core in freedom its very difficult to state weather or not Shinn's blow would have damaged the core in the first place. However as the sword had already penitraighted freedom in its entirety its fairly safe to say it had done the majority of damage it was capable of inflicting to freedom at that point. Note that Kira in his actions also disabled the head and hands of Impulse. Being the secondary explosion was about to hit which I'm sure both Kira and Shinn were aware of at the time. That explosion reguardless of the damage Shinn dealt could have still sent the reactor nuclear. If the reactor had exploded at the very least both Minerva and AA and all those aboard would have been killed in a instant.
Also Kira tried until the very end not to Kill Shinn with his final blow with the beam saber he could have looked to drive it through the cockpit had he aimed yet that was absolutely never his intention. The point is yes a average human would attempt to save his own life first but that is certainly not how Kira's character has been written at any point otherwise he would have never gotten off the couch to be involved in the first place.
edit: I guess I should actually answer your question while I'm at it. By leaving the phase shift armor intact during the hydrogen explosion Freedom would have had a FAR better chance of surviving however it would have risked the reactor going critical. The fact he turned it off to take the full brunt of it was not in any way done to protect himself.
Just a few small notes, this time. One, by the positioning of Impulse in his final strike at Freedom, Kira wouldn't have been able to hit it's cockpit. Two, more than likely Kira realized that the possibility of himself dying with this strike was very high and (Kira being who kira is) Didn't want the AA to be destroyed by the possible nuclear blast from his core and thus disengaged it. To save lives, yes this is true. However, weigh his friends lives over the Minerva and Shinn. Don't make that out to be more than it is.
Kira has not in GSD made any distinction between the lives of friend or foe. In GS he did kill thats very blantant but he has yet to kill anyone reguardless of side in GSD. I do however agree he values the lives of those on AA above those on Minerva Athran aside.Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
Just a few small notes, this time. One, by the positioning of Impulse in his final strike at Freedom, Kira wouldn't have been able to hit it's cockpit. Two, more than likely Kira realized that the possibility of himself dying with this strike was very high and (Kira being who kira is) Didn't want the AA to be destroyed by the possible nuclear blast from his core and thus disengaged it. To save lives, yes this is true. However, weigh his friends lives over the Minerva and Shinn. Don't make that out to be more than it is.
Kira could have absolutely made a downward slash into Impulses body instead of a slash so simply decapitate it and remove the hands I don't see it as accurate that he made his attack without thinking about it.
Or, OR! It could have been a case of he was too surprised by Shinn's fury to do much else. But then, to you, Kira > Shinn in terms of piloting abilities, so that can't be it. Nope, gotta over-analyze and over-rationalize everything to make it so that Kira didn't look like he was beaten so badly as he looked like he was.
Kira was in a life or death situation. He made the choice that would have the best chance of him surviving an unavoidable attack like that, pure and simple. It was a combat decision. That's it. Nothing more to see here.
Originally posted by: Jurojin
Or, OR! It could have been a case of he was too surprised by Shinn's fury to do much else. But then, to you, Kira > Shinn in terms of piloting abilities, so that can't be it. Nope, gotta over-analyze and over-rationalize everything to make it so that Kira didn't look like he was beaten so badly as he looked like he was.
Kira was in a life or death situation. He made the choice that would have the best chance of him surviving an unavoidable attack like that, pure and simple. It was a combat decision. That's it. Nothing more to see here.
I absolutely do believe Kira is a far better Pilot then Shinn. I also believe Shinn has not reached his full potential. The differnce is Kira had a large handycap in trying to only disable Shinn's suit while Shinn was trying to kill Kira. I don't think any of that is even remotely argueable. Do we know if Kira has reached his limit as a pilot... Of course not but we do know with100% certainty he has put limiters on his piloting skills in being unwilling to kill the enemy pilot.
Yeah, but the point is that you're trying to make this more than it is. You're giving Kira more credit than he's due, tbo. He had a VERY simple life or death choice, and you seem to want to complicate it into He was concerned with saving everyones life. Its just not plausible.
Downward slash at the cockpit? Someones guestimating a little bit. Add the velocity of Shinn's attack plus the LARGE difference in strike range of Shinn's anti-ship sword vs Kira's beam sabre and then calculate Kira's use of his shield. Kira was using his beam sabre in much the same way that pikes were used against enemies on horseback, in that Kira was hoping to lessen the damage by using the enemies momentum against him. However, If you notice the placement of Shinn's attack and Kira's placement of defense, there was no room for a 'downward slash' otherwise his defense would have been lowered and he the risk of him dying would have risen. So that's out.
As for Shinn = Kira in comparison to piloting ability, take into account the fact that Kira has been a pilot much longer than Shinn and that Kira was essentially bred to excell over others when comparing. When that comparison is made, I believe that even most Shinn haters should be able to admit that Shinn has increased in ability drastically in a short period of time. The major difference in the skill gap between Kira and Shinn is a simple matter of style: Shinn always aims to defeat the enemy as quickly as possible (that being the cockpit), while Kira aims to disable. Yes, Shinn had the advantage because he knows Kira doesn't aim to kill, however this comes at the old "Low vs High ground" theory, and raw skill isn't the only thing that makes a good pilot.
You guys are crazy if you think Ben is wrong. Kira gave every indication of expecting to die, he shut off the reactor to save everyone else.
Just because you cant concieve of being selfless doesn't mean other people cant. And I dont think most people can concieve of being selfless, as I've not met many.
Kira is not the type to protect himself. He illustrates this in episode 35 when he comments on the loss of Freedom. He's not upset he lost his badass mobile suit: He's worried because now he's going to have a hell of a time defending his friends. Not a single thought about his own injuries. As well, at the end of SEED, his last charge a Rau was totally without thought for his own safety. He knew, that in order for the world of survive, he had to get rid of Rau. If Rau survived, even if Genesis was destroyed, the whole fiasco would just start over (he obviously should have done something about Rau's friends... mwahahahahah!). Thats why he pretty much gave up any real chance of survival in order to take out Rau.
Kira is selfless. He has no concept of saving his own life at the cost of another... only of protecting those he cares about.
its rather certain that kira's pilot skill is still better than shinn for the time being(up to episode 35...mayb it would change next time)
however i would say shinn is much a better pilot in a war...
since in war...its better that you kill your enemies today than getting killed by your enemies the other day
kira is sort of selfless in the sense in GS...he risk his life trying to save fllay...
when he was trying to save fllay in GS...he did not bother about whether he would be shot down by his enemies...
instead kira focus in saving fllay without even bothering about his enermies...
even after freedom head/main camera got destroyed...he did not even concern about it...
and still trying to save fllay without his concern in his safety...
FTFYOriginally posted by: MeroTZ
Kira is t3h ub3r l33t!111!!!11!!1!
Don't forget that Kira is the Ultimate Coordinator.
So no matter how hard Shinn tries, he'll never be as good a pilot as Kira.
And before anyone challenges me as to what being the Ultimate Coordinator is please do your research...and no Shinn is not one of them...there are only two...
Canard Pars
Kira Yamato
yeah that's true but shinn is a trained soldier and kira isn't/wasn't (correct me if iam wrong) and i do admit that shinn skills has increased, and iam not a shinn hater or a kira loverOriginally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
As for Shinn = Kira in comparison to piloting ability, take into account the fact that Kira has been a pilot much longer than Shinn and that Kira was essentially bred to excell over others when comparing. .
Originally posted by: fox_t
Don't forget that Kira is the Ultimate Coordinator.
So no matter how hard Shinn tries, he'll never be as good a pilot as Kira.
And before anyone challenges me as to what being the Ultimate Coordinator is please do your research...and no Shinn is not one of them...there are only two...
Canard Pars
Kira Yamato
I'm going to use a snippet from Kill Bill volume 2 to represent the stance of Ultimate Coordinator vs regular Coordinator:
~
Elle Driver: How's her Hanzo sword compared to yours?
Budd: ....When you compare a sword like a Hanzo sword, you compare it to every single sword in the world...that wasn't made by Hattori Hanzo.
~
Sir, I think you may have grossly misquoted me.Originally posted by: Jurojin
FTFYOriginally posted by: MeroTZ
Kira is t3h ub3r l33t!111!!!11!!1!
Kira is too good to be sullied with l33t.
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
Regardless, he got shot down didn't he? I'm just saying he's a great person, with an outlook on things I wish I could duplicate. I think you are jealous.
No, I'm just sick of people putting Kira on a pedastal in everything he does, at least when he doesn't deserve it.
Kira is too good to be sullied with l33t
Ah, but he could be sullied with Fllay?
teasing [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
I wonder what everyone will say when Kira dies to Shinn ( Mmm, merely thinking about that makes me all hot and woozy! )
He did it so he could be returned to the earth and thus fuel the grass. Teehee. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Edit: Make that IF. I'd rather not have one thousand "OMFG KIRA WILL NEVER DIE TO SHINN WTF!!!" posts follow.
/ No, you warrant no villain's exposition from me.
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