Phase 35 is out (RAW)

[NineTailsKitsu]

In my opinion, I don't believe that Dullindal is trying to make Shinn into a mindless "psychotic" follower, but rather that he's using Shinn as a poster boy. I mean, Shinn came from humble beginnings, lost his family to the previous war and through his anger rose through the military to become a "Super Ace" of ZAFT. I mean propoganda wise Shinn is the perfect solider: he's defeated countless enemy units, taken down fleets by himself, he destroyed the Destroy unit and then defeated the Legendary ace and pilot of the Freedom, Kira Yamato. Who better to be the poster boy of Dullindal's new campaign against LOGOS and those that would side with them? That is the reason Dullindal won't punish Shinn, and that is the reason why he is constantly rewarded. As for the comment that Shinn is insane, well...Taken into account what has happened to him during the course of the series, who would'nt be in a severely confused state after that? When you talk about the reason Athrun punched Shinn, being "upset that his best friend and girlfriend were blown up", thats pure hypocrisy. When you think that, then also think "but hey, didn't Kira kinda kill Shinn's entire family, and THEN kill the only girl Shinn ever loved?"...Think about it, cause If you think that Shinn deserved that punch from Athrun, then Kira should have gotten much worse then nearly dying.

[FelixZeroAlastor]

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
When you talk about the reason Athrun punched Shinn, being "upset that his best friend and girlfriend were blown up", thats pure hypocrisy. When you think that, then also think "but hey, didn't Kira kinda kill Shinn's entire family, and THEN kill the only girl Shinn ever loved?"...Think about it, cause If you think that Shinn deserved that punch from Athrun, then Kira should have gotten much worse then nearly dying.

For the lask freakin time. Athrun didn't punch Shinn out of anger for Kira and the AA(though he was very close to). He punched Shinn mainly because Shinn said that Athrun wanted Kira to shot him down instead. Athrun considers Shinn a close comrade. Heck, maybe even as a friend. Hearing how Shinn thinks that Athrun would rather have him die than Kira just pissed off Athrun. So that punch was well deserved. Athrun would've probably rather avoided that battle completely.

No one knows who killed Shinn's family as he didn't even see it. If he did see and noticed it was freedom he would've flashed back during a fight with it. I am not gonna say anything about Stellar cause that will start up that conversation again.

I can partially understand Shinn but not completely seeing as I am not him and haven't experienced what he has been through. Right now I agree with most of his actions thus far and disagree with some just the same. For now that is all I can say on his actions. I do really hate his personality though.

[bigdaddy843]

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
In my opinion, I don't believe that Dullindal is trying to make Shinn into a mindless "psychotic" follower, but rather that he's using Shinn as a poster boy. I mean, Shinn came from humble beginnings, lost his family to the previous war and through his anger rose through the military to become a "Super Ace" of ZAFT. I mean propoganda wise Shinn is the perfect solider: he's defeated countless enemy units, taken down fleets by himself, he destroyed the Destroy unit and then defeated the Legendary ace and pilot of the Freedom, Kira Yamato. Who better to be the poster boy of Dullindal's new campaign against LOGOS and those that would side with them? That is the reason Dullindal won't punish Shinn, and that is the reason why he is constantly rewarded. As for the comment that Shinn is insane, well...Taken into account what has happened to him during the course of the series, who would'nt be in a severely confused state after that? When you talk about the reason Athrun punched Shinn, being "upset that his best friend and girlfriend were blown up", thats pure hypocrisy. When you think that, then also think "but hey, didn't Kira kinda kill Shinn's entire family, and THEN kill the only girl Shinn ever loved?"...Think about it, cause If you think that Shinn deserved that punch from Athrun, then Kira should have gotten much worse then nearly dying.

true, however don't we have to note that after Kira realised that killing people was not the way to go, he always tried not to kill people, wheras it appears that Shinn is indicriminately slaughtering his enemies. I also feel tht the reasonm why Athrun punched Shinn was not because of his best pal and girlfriend being blown up but more because he was upset with Shinn's continual problem with his attitide.

[Curium]

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
No one knows who killed Shinn's family as he didn't even see it. If he did see and noticed it was freedom he would've flashed back during a fight with it.

Personally I believe that it was a shot from Freedom that was deflected by Forbidden.

[MeroTZ]

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
As for the comment that Shinn is insane, well...Taken into account what has happened to him during the course of the series, who would'nt be in a severely confused state after that? When you talk about the reason Athrun punched Shinn, being "upset that his best friend and girlfriend were blown up", thats pure hypocrisy. When you think that, then also think "but hey, didn't Kira kinda kill Shinn's entire family, and THEN kill the only girl Shinn ever loved?"...Think about it, cause If you think that Shinn deserved that punch from Athrun, then Kira should have gotten much worse then nearly dying.

First, to respond to your last quote, Kira did get much worse than nearly dieing for his crimes, several times. He watched Yzak kill a Shuttle full of people he had saved, people who should have been safe and who had counted on him for protection. He was forced to kill (so he thought) Andrew Waldfelt, a man he knew was not a bad person. And he watched, helpless, as Flay was killed mercilessly for no reason other than to get to him. These things are probably worse than losing his family... note, it never seemed like he was that close to his false parents anyway.

Kira has been pushed hard... far harder, I would say than Mr. "I'm so tragic" Shinn. And did he go crazy and try to take revenge? Did he place blame where it didn't belong? No, he reformed, decided on a course of action, and a means to accomplish it, and followed it through until he was finally shot down. And by god, he did pretty well. How many pilots have been not-killed because he took them down instead of somebody like Shinn? How many times over has the ArchAngel been saved by his actions? Sure, there were setbacks, but he knew what he wanted and followed through with it.

Shinn's past is no excuse for his actions. Just because he has had it rough, is no excuse for his fall. As Kira (and Athrun) proves, a person can not only deal with it WITHOUT becoming a psychopath, but can become a very good person. Shinn needs to take responsibilty, and learn to acccept his past and not hold a grudge against people who hold no real blame.

I dont think he will. This is a good thing.

[Vegita]

Originally posted by: MeroTZ
First, to respond to your last quote, Kira did get much worse than nearly dieing for his crimes, several times. He watched Yzak kill a Shuttle full of people he had saved, people who should have been safe and who had counted on him for protection. He was forced to kill (so he thought) Andrew Waldfelt, a man he knew was not a bad person. And he watched, helpless, as Flay was killed mercilessly for no reason other than to get to him. These things are probably worse than losing his family... note, it never seemed like he was that close to his false parents anyway.

Ok, so you would rather have your entire family killed in front of your eyes than watch a shuttle full of strangers get killed? And you would also rather have your entire family killed in front of you than kill some you dont know?

Let's be reasonable here.

[DragonBladeX]

Originally posted by: MeroTZ

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
As for the comment that Shinn is insane, well...Taken into account what has happened to him during the course of the series, who would'nt be in a severely confused state after that? When you talk about the reason Athrun punched Shinn, being "upset that his best friend and girlfriend were blown up", thats pure hypocrisy. When you think that, then also think "but hey, didn't Kira kinda kill Shinn's entire family, and THEN kill the only girl Shinn ever loved?"...Think about it, cause If you think that Shinn deserved that punch from Athrun, then Kira should have gotten much worse then nearly dying.

Kira has been pushed hard... far harder, I would say than Mr. "I'm so tragic" Shinn. And did he go crazy and try to take revenge? Did he place blame where it didn't belong? No, he reformed, decided on a course of action, and a means to accomplish it, and followed it through until he was finally shot down. And by god, he did pretty well. How many pilots have been not-killed because he took them down instead of somebody like Shinn? How many times over has the ArchAngel been saved by his actions? Sure, there were setbacks, but he knew what he wanted and followed through with it.

While I'll agree Kira has been pushed hard in GS, remember in the face-off between him and Athrun, there was moment he sort of snapped there along with Athrun and they end up nearly killing each other. By themselves, they really could'nt have recovered from the trauma of that incident and reformed without the help of Cagalli and Lacus. Kira might have gone into further shock at killing his friend but Athrun was still pretty stubborn til Cagalli decked him for even thinking of killing Kira, his best childhood friend.

[Millenium-Boyz]

Kira and Arthrun both have experienced the trauma from the war that they did in seed that is why they make this "no killing" motto, but i think kira have a stronger mental than arthrun and considering his MS is better than arthrun that is why he is capable of protecting archangel just by himself and trying to stop the war, while arthrun doesnt really plan about his tactis or what he will do or he have no reason of being a FAITH member, that is probably he is being a hippy

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
In my opinion, I don't believe that Dullindal is trying to make Shinn into a mindless "psychotic" follower, but rather that he's using Shinn as a poster boy. I mean, Shinn came from humble beginnings, lost his family to the previous war and through his anger rose through the military to become a "Super Ace" of ZAFT. I mean propoganda wise Shinn is the perfect solider: he's defeated countless enemy units, taken down fleets by himself, he destroyed the Destroy unit and then defeated the Legendary ace and pilot of the Freedom, Kira Yamato. Who better to be the poster boy of Dullindal's new campaign against LOGOS and those that would side with them? That is the reason Dullindal won't punish Shinn, and that is the reason why he is constantly rewarded. As for the comment that Shinn is insane, well...Taken into account what has happened to him during the course of the series, who would'nt be in a severely confused state after that? When you talk about the reason Athrun punched Shinn, being "upset that his best friend and girlfriend were blown up", thats pure hypocrisy. When you think that, then also think "but hey, didn't Kira kinda kill Shinn's entire family, and THEN kill the only girl Shinn ever loved?"...Think about it, cause If you think that Shinn deserved that punch from Athrun, then Kira should have gotten much worse then nearly dying.

First off Kira never killed his family, it was a stray shot from the battle that was made pretty clear. Saying that Shinn loved Stellar is going a bit overboard isn't it? He liked her but love is a strong word. In your opinion stopping a giant killingmachine should be punished by death in Kira's case? When saying Shinn only did his duty by taking down Freedom and then say that Kira did wrong in taking down Destroy seems a bit hypocritical to me. One can fight but not the other?

If you excuse Shinn's behaviour by what has happened to him i don't see why you can't excuse Asurans behaviour in the same manner. He went through alot to, he got no real family either. Don't go around calling people hypocritical and then be it yourself.

[Millenium-Boyz]

did talia actually know that the one pilloting Destroy was stellar?
because if she does know that i find no reason why shin didnt get punished badly, Shin is the one who supposed to get the worst punishment, not stellar, he put stellar in danger by returning it to Neo, he is the one who killed stellar even though its indirect kill, and then in 35 he arrogantly said to asuran "I got my revenge" what revenge? for kira killing stellar ? OMG I hate that guy as much as I hate Fray(Kira's 1st girlfriend in seed)

[PSJ]

I found it funny how you called Stellar "It".

[Motteh]

just saw Haro^2 Tori^2's sub so i'll give my opinion about events in ep. 35 and my view on events in ep. 36
but i'll be ignoring all preview spoilers for coming episodes and what's been said already (i'll leave that to another time)
if you still feel like flaming my ass please do so, you will not get to me with it

about ep. 35: Kira has been put back in the picture sooner then expected but they have answered the question as why Freedom didn't cause a nuclear explosion, since Kira shut down the nuclear reactor
Murrue Ramius (or whatever the spelling is) seems to have overcome the shock from the initial encounter with Neo, who in his turn seems to have information and his own opinion about Mwu La Flaga
(i'll keep referring to him as Neo unless the actually re-becomes Mwu again IF that ever happens)
Shinn really hates Athrun, that much is clear now, openly taunting Athrun by saying he took "revenge for him too" when he knew Athrun knew Freedom's pilot very well, as such i can more then understand Athrun's response, hitting him in the face would've been my response as well
Rey in my opinion is going down a similar path as Rau did, that's the only reason i can explain the Rau flashbacks we've seen in scenes with Rey during the series, and also because of his behaviour lately
also it's safe to say that other then Djibril all of Logos is gone, maybe except for the ones residing in Orb but we'll see about that when ArchAngel arrives in Orb i think
i'm really wondering what Dullindal meant with "let's see if this will become the trump card or not" when in the Destiny/Legend hangar with Meer, especially since he had a very sinister look on his face
and Shinn was actually quite adorable (like a little kid would be) when he heard he'd get a new unit, he really seemed genuinly happy without any signs of his normal asshole attitude
Athrun on the other hand seemed very distraught (i doubt if i used the word in the right context) about it though

and now for my preview of ep.36: Athrun will leave for ArchAngel/Orb, that much is certain because of the title of the next episode (well not 100% certain since they only say he'll defect but it's very unlikely he'll turn over to fight for the EAF), however judging from the last sentence and the images shown i doubt he will take Gaia, there's no clear indication he will and since they say "fly towards the stormy sea, Gouf" i think he'll use a Gouf for his escape, also i think he will not be leaving alone, judging from the scene where he was with Meyrin and because he extends his hand towards someone in the last shots of the preview i suspect he'll take Meyrin with him, might be Lunamaria too since it seems she's moved closer towards Athrun in the last couple of episodes
i also think we won't see ArchAngel arriving in Orb just yet because Murrue stated they had to pick a careful route not to encounter any enemies and also that the ZAFT offensive against DJibril will either not be scheduled to commence immediately or will be postponed because of Athrun's defection

this concludes my views on episodes 35 and 36, i clearly state again that this is my opinion and i have chosen to ignore any other speculations and spoilers, so if that is a reason for anyone to start an (flaming) offensive on me feel free to do so but it will not show much result

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
In my opinion, I don't believe that Dullindal is trying to make Shinn into a mindless "psychotic" follower, but rather that he's using Shinn as a poster boy. I mean, Shinn came from humble beginnings, lost his family to the previous war and through his anger rose through the military to become a "Super Ace" of ZAFT. I mean propoganda wise Shinn is the perfect solider: he's defeated countless enemy units, taken down fleets by himself, he destroyed the Destroy unit and then defeated the Legendary ace and pilot of the Freedom, Kira Yamato. Who better to be the poster boy of Dullindal's new campaign against LOGOS and those that would side with them? That is the reason Dullindal won't punish Shinn, and that is the reason why he is constantly rewarded. As for the comment that Shinn is insane, well...Taken into account what has happened to him during the course of the series, who would'nt be in a severely confused state after that? When you talk about the reason Athrun punched Shinn, being "upset that his best friend and girlfriend were blown up", thats pure hypocrisy. When you think that, then also think "but hey, didn't Kira kinda kill Shinn's entire family, and THEN kill the only girl Shinn ever loved?"...Think about it, cause If you think that Shinn deserved that punch from Athrun, then Kira should have gotten much worse then nearly dying.

Incorrect the only reason that Dullindale is forgiving anything Shinn does is because he desires Shinn to be completely loyal to Zaft. This is shown every step of the way because despite anything Shinn has accomplished his actions in every single case have furthered the war and not stopped it. Please note that this is directly against everything that Dullindale says he is trying to accomplish and there is absolutely no other reason that Shinn would still be a pilot at this point.

Also for some side notes...
1. Shinn did NOT stop Destroy Kira did this isn't even argueable.
2. Shinn gave back Stellar which granted Destroy a pilot he would not kill meaning he couldn't have stopped it.
3. Shinn is completely unstable this has been shown during the entire series and he does not follow orders at all.
4. The propoganda film that Dullindale showed is the only thing that made Shinn into what your claiming he is as it was carefully edited to make Shinn look like the hero of Zaft. If you actually believe that then you need to rewatch the series instead of refering simply to the propoganda video.

Originally posted by: Millenium-Boyz
did talia actually know that the one pilloting Destroy was stellar?
because if she does know that i find no reason why shin didnt get punished badly, Shin is the one who supposed to get the worst punishment, not stellar, he put stellar in danger by returning it to Neo, he is the one who killed stellar even though its indirect kill, and then in 35 he arrogantly said to asuran "I got my revenge" what revenge? for kira killing stellar ? OMG I hate that guy as much as I hate Fray(Kira's 1st girlfriend in seed)

The short answer is yes she did. Not only did they hear it over the radio but they watched Shinn carry her body from the wreckage and run off with it.

[NineTailsKitsu]

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
In my opinion, I don't believe that Dullindal is trying to make Shinn into a mindless "psychotic" follower, but rather that he's using Shinn as a poster boy. I mean, Shinn came from humble beginnings, lost his family to the previous war and through his anger rose through the military to become a "Super Ace" of ZAFT. I mean propoganda wise Shinn is the perfect solider: he's defeated countless enemy units, taken down fleets by himself, he destroyed the Destroy unit and then defeated the Legendary ace and pilot of the Freedom, Kira Yamato. Who better to be the poster boy of Dullindal's new campaign against LOGOS and those that would side with them? That is the reason Dullindal won't punish Shinn, and that is the reason why he is constantly rewarded. As for the comment that Shinn is insane, well...Taken into account what has happened to him during the course of the series, who would'nt be in a severely confused state after that? When you talk about the reason Athrun punched Shinn, being "upset that his best friend and girlfriend were blown up", thats pure hypocrisy. When you think that, then also think "but hey, didn't Kira kinda kill Shinn's entire family, and THEN kill the only girl Shinn ever loved?"...Think about it, cause If you think that Shinn deserved that punch from Athrun, then Kira should have gotten much worse then nearly dying.

Incorrect the only reason that Dullindale is forgiving anything Shinn does is because he desires Shinn to be completely loyal to Zaft. This is shown every step of the way because despite anything Shinn has accomplished his actions in every single case have furthered the war and not stopped it. Please note that this is directly against everything that Dullindale says he is trying to accomplish and there is absolutely no other reason that Shinn would still be a pilot at this point.

Also for some side notes...
1. Shinn did NOT stop Destroy Kira did this isn't even argueable.
2. Shinn gave back Stellar which granted Destroy a pilot he would not kill meaning he couldn't have stopped it.
3. Shinn is completely unstable this has been shown during the entire series and he does not follow orders at all.
4. The propoganda film that Dullindale showed is the only thing that made Shinn into what your claiming he is as it was carefully edited to make Shinn look like the hero of Zaft. If you actually believe that then you need to rewatch the series instead of refering simply to the propoganda video.

Originally posted by: Millenium-Boyz
did talia actually know that the one pilloting Destroy was stellar?
because if she does know that i find no reason why shin didnt get punished badly, Shin is the one who supposed to get the worst punishment, not stellar, he put stellar in danger by returning it to Neo, he is the one who killed stellar even though its indirect kill, and then in 35 he arrogantly said to asuran "I got my revenge" what revenge? for kira killing stellar ? OMG I hate that guy as much as I hate Fray(Kira's 1st girlfriend in seed)

The short answer is yes she did. Not only did they hear it over the radio but they watched Shinn carry her body from the wreckage and run off with it.

You missed my point completely. I wasn't saying that Shinn defeated Destroy, but that due to Dullindal's propoganda video, Shinn was made out to have done those things. Not to mention, when was Shinn's insubordination ever recorded or leaked to non-military personell? It was'nt. Saying that "He was saved to be a loyal member of ZAFT" is ridiculous. If that's the case, then why does Military reprimand even exist in the series, or mention it at all. Whats Dullindal's reasoning behind "saving" Shinn? Come on, use your head. The reason he keeps "saving" Shinn is for a useful, powerful propoganda tool. Or shall I explain what a poster-boy is?

[Jurojin]

Originally posted by: DDBen
Also for some side notes...
1. Shinn did NOT stop Destroy Kira did this isn't even argueable.
2. Shinn gave back Stellar which granted Destroy a pilot he would not kill meaning he couldn't have stopped it.
3. Shinn is completely unstable this has been shown during the entire series and he does not follow orders at all.
4. The propoganda film that Dullindale showed is the only thing that made Shinn into what your claiming he is as it was carefully edited to make Shinn look like the hero of Zaft. If you actually believe that then you need to rewatch the series instead of refering simply to the propoganda video.

Did you even read his post? He was saying WHY Shinn is a propaganda poster child. "I mean propaganda wise Shinn is the perfect solider:" He didn't say he bought into it ~_~


Also, Destroy would have been piloted by someone else if he had not given Stellar back. That it turned out to be Stellar was at best a bad twist of fate for those concerned. Don't pin the deaths of all those in the cities Destroy burned down on Shinn giving Stellar back, when common sense dictates that it could have been anyone else, like Sting, or even Neo could have piloted it.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
You missed my point completely. I wasn't saying that Shinn defeated Destroy, but that due to Dullindal's propoganda video, Shinn was made out to have done those things. Not to mention, when was Shinn's insubordination ever recorded or leaked to non-military personell? It was'nt. Saying that "He was saved to be a loyal member of ZAFT" is ridiculous. If that's the case, then why does Military reprimand even exist in the series, or mention it at all. Whats Dullindal's reasoning behind "saving" Shinn? Come on, use your head. The reason he keeps "saving" Shinn is for a useful, powerful propoganda tool. Or shall I explain what a poster-boy is?

And if thats the case how is that any differn't then Dullindale molding Shinn into someone who blindly follows orders. He's been rewarding him no matter what he does to keep him loyal as everything he has done has worked towards his final goal. The only reason your point was misunderstood is because you claimed my earlier statement about Dullindale using Shinn as a tool in the first place was incorrect. What your posting here on the other hand is exactly what you quoted me saying and called incorrect. I do agree with it however.

Edit: Hmm seems I misread his earlier post in part as he's both arguing and making the same point. If Shinn is the posterboy please note that is the same as being fanatically loyal to Zaft the differnce is Dullindale is justifying his actions with his propaganda video's and that Shinn seems to believe what dullindale is saying.

Edit 2:

Originally posted by: Jurojin
Did you even read his post? He was saying WHY Shinn is a propaganda poster child. "I mean propaganda wise Shinn is the perfect solider:" He didn't say he bought into it ~_~

Also, Destroy would have been piloted by someone else if he had not given Stellar back. That it turned out to be Stellar was at best a bad twist of fate for those concerned. Don't pin the deaths of all those in the cities Destroy burned down on Shinn giving Stellar back, when common sense dictates that it could have been anyone else, like Sting, or even Neo could have piloted it.

I just reread his post and I indeed misread it mostly because he was commenting on something I said and stating it was wrong then repeating the same thing I had previously stated.

That aside actually no Neo would not have been able to pilot Destroy in such a manor either would Sting. This is because Stellar piloted Destroy in such a manor that she was only trying to survive she never once stopped to think what she was doing nor did she understand it was wrong because she had the mind of a child. Her entire mentality was that if she didn't kill everything something would in turn kill her.

Neo has atleast some degree of humanity and while he was able to use a girl like Stellar to the extend he did I don't believe he could have killed people nearly as freely as she did. As for Sting he would have let his Ego get in the way and Shinn wouldn't have had any reason to hesitate on killing him after cutting open the cockpit instead it would have unified the efforts of Minerva and AA. The point of using Stellar was that Neo knew it would divide his enimies .

[Jurojin]

lah blah blah, Shinn is indirectly, or directly, (however you put it), responsible for the deaths, blah blah blah. It's the same line from you >_< Forget it, I'm not going to bash my head against a brick wall to try and get you to see reason instead of pinning just about everything bad in the series on Shinn.

Oh, did you notice DDBen that Kira was not the one responsible for the "Let us look like we're dead so we can escape" idea? And that he's feeling guilty about losing Freedom like that? Makes it seem like *gasp* he's not the godly character you (and others) tried to paint him up as last thread. Oh noej, t3h sky is falling, t3h sky is falling!@!!!11!1!

[NineTailsKitsu]

The reason why you might think that I'm counter-pointing myself in argument to your past statement Is that I disagree with your opinion that a poster-boy is the same thing as a "Loyal Brainwashed Fanatic", when it isnt. Calling Shinn a loyal subbordinate counteracts the same thing you were presenting earlier, that "Shinn has gone against his orders time and time again", that would be insubordination. If Dullindal wanted a brainwashed loyalist, he would use Rey. However, Shinn has the background of mediocrity to push his image in the PR campaign to the people, Dullindal would only brainwash him to simply make it easier to push his propoganda, however at the moment Shinn's actions have corresponded with what Dullindal wants of him. Dullindal won't forwardly try to make him a "yes man" , giving him the freedom to act on his own is what is keeping Shinn loyal and I believe that Dullindal realizes that.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
lah blah blah, Shinn is indirectly, or directly, (however you put it), responsible for the deaths, blah blah blah. It's the same line from you >_< Forget it, I'm not going to bash my head against a brick wall to try and get you to see reason instead of pinning just about everything bad in the series on Shinn.

Oh, did you notice DDBen that Kira was not the one responsible for the "Let us look like we're dead so we can escape" idea? And that he's feeling guilty about losing Freedom like that? Makes it seem like *gasp* he's not the godly character you (and others) tried to paint him up as last thread. Oh noej, t3h sky is falling, t3h sky is falling!@!!!11!1!

Kira turned off his phase shift armor in the middle of a hydrogen bomb to prevent a nuclear explosion. So I would certainly say that constitutes sacrificing yourself so that the AA can get away. The damage was purely allowed by Kira to prevent anyone dying who didn't need to. He shut down the reactor. I never once painted him as a god I did say it would make sense to use the shield to deflect the sword to a nonvital area. In the end he survived and has lived to fight another day meaning that Shinn failed while Kira succeded in there mission objectives.

Originally posted by: NineTailsKitsu
The reason why you might think that I'm counter-pointing myself in argument to your past statement Is that I disagree with your opinion that a poster-boy is the same thing as a "Loyal Brainwashed Fanatic", when it isnt. Calling Shinn a loyal subbordinate counteracts the same thing you were presenting earlier, that "Shinn has gone against his orders time and time again", that would be insubordination. If Dullindal wanted a brainwashed loyalist, he would use Rey. However, Shinn has the background of mediocrity to push his image in the PR campaign to the people, Dullindal would only brainwash him to simply make it easier to push his propoganda, however at the moment Shinn's actions have corresponded with what Dullindal wants of him. Dullindal won't forwardly try to make him a "yes man" , giving him the freedom to act on his own is what is keeping Shinn loyal and I believe that Dullindal realizes that.

I never called Shinn loyal. I simply stated that his actions benifit Dullindale's plans. The fact is that Shinn will goto any battlefield that Dullindale tells him to as long as he properly strokes Shinn's ego. Say with a shiney new nuclear toy of mass destruction. He has absolutely gone against the orders of Zaft which is the reason he should be repremanded. However he also believes that Dullindale understands his sense of Justice and in that manor he goes where ever he's told. He's a horrible PR guy without editing the footage to you benefit. Also note there is absolutely no reason for Zaft to make Strike freedom or Infinate Justice if Dullindale actually thought his puppet named Shinn was ever fully controllable. He's simply a piece in his game to be sacrificed and replaced the moment he acts against his boss.

[Jurojin]

"

Kira turned off his phase shift armor in the middle of a hydrogen bomb to prevent a nuclear explosion. So I would certainly say that constitutes sacrificing yourself so that the AA can get away. The damage was purely allowed by Kira to prevent anyone dying who didn't need to. He shut down the reactor. I never once painted him as a god I did say it would make sense to use the shield to deflect the sword to a nonvital area. In the end he survived and has lived to fight another day meaning that Shinn failed while Kira succeded in there mission objectives.

"


Or he shut down the reactor to prevent his own death ~_~ I give up. You're beyond saving.