@ gotwoot moderater

[?igma]

yeah well, this WAS a PM ..


BUT , the guy doesnt want to recieve it , so here it is.

in reply to :

If you're not happy with the way we do our jobs, feel free to bring that to our attention, but this is not the right place for it.

I am pretty aware of the statement in the mainpost, nor have I ever before violated it. The way you handle these minor crimes however makes it look as if you are seeking control yet you feel none and therefore have to get all angry so people will have to bow before your might. And than its time to reply.

Maybe you could just be a >little< bit more like the buddy-admin. I assume you do not really revel in making enemies. Unless it does amuse you to always know that they will reply as following :

---" yo so wat if i'm warned? u think i care?"----

Now I assume the guy isnt the most bright guy in the world , but the things you say

---"The rules specifically state that there is no discussion in the Release threads. If you didn't care about the rules, then I might as well ban you permanently myself. How about that? User as been warned again.

GotWoot Moderator"---

really should have you expecting that sort of attitude.

I think its also a combination with the bold , why not try something else ? A color for example ( Blizzard uses blue )

greets.

p.s . Nobody really minds getting warned or banned or whatever, thats why getting angry doesnt help alot..

[Y]

Thank you for this post, forums superstar ?igma, we appreciate it.

[Assassin]

the mods are authority figures, and as such they need to make ppl aware of thier authority. making friends isn't thier top priority, and i imagine, netiehr is makign enemies. if someone noob decides to take a warning personally, and then openly mock teh mods and not expect to be dealt with "harshly", then said noob is a complete moron.

[?igma]

yes thank you @ Y for always making my posts seem destructive, where it could just as easily be understood as something CONSTRUCTIVE.

I personally have nothing against the mods, but they whine about replies they are BOUND to get with their attitude.

edit: And no, I do not have any aspiration to become a superstar [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img] Ill just own in WoW , good enough for meh [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

[Y]

Originally posted by: ?igma
yes thank you @ Y for always making my posts seem destructive, where it could just as easily be understood as something CONSTRUCTIVE.

I personally have nothing against the mods, but they whine about replies they are BOUND to get with their attitude.

I'm pretty sure the one whining here is you. Cry me a fucking river. Also, great job posting this in Naruto Anime instead of a section where it is at least vaguely applicable like GW Suggestions and taking what should have been PM only into the public arena. Way to be mature there, sparky.

[?igma]

lucky for me, you being pretty sure, doesnt really count ^^

and the mod is free to move it any day, but I think it applies to the naruto forum soly

[Y]

Originally posted by: ?igma
but I think it applies to the naruto forum soly

That's because you're dumb.

[The Heretic Azazel]

Originally posted by: ?igma
yeah well, this WAS a PM ..


BUT , the guy doesnt want to recieve it , so here it is.

in reply to :

If you're not happy with the way we do our jobs, feel free to bring that to our attention, but this is not the right place for it.

I am pretty aware of the statement in the mainpost, nor have I ever before violated it. The way you handle these minor crimes however makes it look as if you are seeking control yet you feel none and therefore have to get all angry so people will have to bow before your might. And than its time to reply.

Maybe you could just be a >little< bit more like the buddy-admin. I assume you do not really revel in making enemies. Unless it does amuse you to always know that they will reply as following :

---" yo so wat if i'm warned? u think i care?"----

Now I assume the guy isnt the most bright guy in the world , but the things you say

---"The rules specifically state that there is no discussion in the Release threads. If you didn't care about the rules, then I might as well ban you permanently myself. How about that? User as been warned again.

GotWoot Moderator"---

really should have you expecting that sort of attitude.

I think its also a combination with the bold , why not try something else ? A color for example ( Blizzard uses blue )

greets.

p.s . Nobody really minds getting warned or banned or whatever, thats why getting angry doesnt help alot..

You know.. everytime I see irrelevant shit posted under the releases only thread, it burns my ass. All you have to do is post that shit in another thread., is that really too much for idiots like you to handle?

IIt would be okay if it only happened every now and then...

BUT IT HAPPENS EVERY WEEK.

Take a fucking hint already.

[complich8]

*puts the "admin" hat on*

This seems like it's pointed at one specific instance. There's about a dozen moderators. We keep them hidden so they don't have to deal with this sort of post, or general flames from people who don't understand that they're just enforcing the rules. Hence your pm not getting through, or whatever. There's no mechanism in place to send a pm to the mods that actually works, as far as I know. Don't think they blew you off or explicitly rejected your messages or anything. There's simply no one "GotWoot Moderator" user account. Rather, it's an alias that shows up to indicate that one of the moderators has done something, and to differentiate it from a normal user account doing something. IE: a way for moderators to exert a sense of presence and authority without having to stand up and yell "I'm a moderator! flame me!".

Originally posted by: ?igmap.s . Nobody really minds getting warned or banned or whatever, thats why getting angry doesnt help alot..

The warning system is tied to an incrementally increasing ban system. Meaning if you're getting warned very much, eventually the system will automatically remove you from the community as a whole. The idea is to cut down on people who habitually can't figure out how we'd like things to work despite being persistently reminded in obvious places. So we don't care if anyone minds or not ... but the people who don't aren't going to continue to be community members, simple as that.

in response to your original post content: I get the sense from some of the mods that they DO feel like there's a degree of slippage going on. That is, they can't effectively steer the threads, because they're not allowed to wade through them waving the "I'm a moderator! kiss my ass" flag (incidentally, also the "I'm a moderator! flame me" flag). But that's more a result of community member disrespect for the entire purpose of moderation and disregard for guidelines, rules, and common courtesy than it is a fault of the moderators or the system. So yes, some mods get a little angry, or harsh, because it really IS hard to regain control of a runaway thread full of drooling fans tripping over their hyperextended tongues in a race to post the dumbest thing the fastest.

Again, the whole point of the warning system and getting the ban system working is to try to discourage, and in the worst case weed out all of the things that make these forums less than they should be. It's an ongoing process ... and the mods are constantly self-policing as we all try to calibrate moderation to a happy medium -- filtering out the shit without significantly hurting the good. You do bring up valid concerns, but as Y said, this is probably the wrong place to do it. Hence I'm moving it to gotwoot suggestions (hesitantly, I'm not quite sure that's the right place for it either, but I'm not sure there IS a right place right now).

As for the color comment. umm .... who cares? :-p. We're not the blizzard forums, we're not any other forums either. right now we're more concerned with the quality of the community here than with the color scheme of moderation.

Finally, remember that the moderators are humans too. They're subject to the same sort of emotions as you are, though maybe a little better at keeping them in check. We would all really appreciate it if when you run into the pointy end of the moderation-stick, you take it as a reminder, grow a little from the experience, and move on. Dwelling on it, trying to pick fights or generally complain at the mods isn't going to make the warning go away, isn't going to make them any cooler-headed, and is probably only going to exacerbate the problem at hand. Please handle these things with a degree of maturity ... remember that it's hard to have meaningful discourse with people who won't have anything to do with reason.

Thanks.
anyone have any better ideas where this should be moved?

[Assassin]

i'd suggest a seperate forum/topic for these kinds of complaints but that would undoubtedly get out fo hand withing a few days and be filled with shitpots and whiny complaints....so no, this place is as good as any

[Y]

Originally posted by: complich8

anyone have any better ideas where this should be moved?

Trash can.

[complich8]

thanks for joining in in the useless shitposting, Y. I appreciate it. Really I do.

only not.

No, I think despite the poorly assembled nature of the post, he does bring up at least a valid point or two, and has at least a legitimate suggestion or two. Not to mention common misconceptions that need to be cleared up.

Which isn't to say it's correct to post where he did, or how he did. But that despite the misplaced posts, there's a degree of validity to what he's saying.

In other words, stfu smartass. Your posts in this thread are a lot less productive than anyone else's, including the original post.

[Y]

Give me a break. This affair apparently began as a PM and should never have been aired publically and he's just repeating grievances that have already been dealt with. Even if I agree with what he and you are saying (and I do, in parts), this was a shit post in the anime area that should have been locked straight away after your response dealt with everything. I just assumed that would have been obvious and totally unnecessary to even say. But assumptions do have the tendency to turn around and bite you.

So I guess since you posted about general mod issues I can throw in my two cents since "This thread is over" apparently isn't good enough.

The invisible moderating system, frankly, is shit. It protects on two fronts that any competent moderator should already be able to deal with - suckups and blazing retards alike shouldn't affect your judgement, and if they do, you're no good at what you're supposed to be doing.

?igma is wrong about moderators getting "angry", probably because sensing emotion through text is difficult and makes it easy to misinterpret posts as being either far less or far more emotive than they really are. I doubt that any of you are actually getting emotionally distraught over the forums.

Under the current system of moderation the invisible mods have no reason to be "buddy-admin" with you - that is what their normal posts are for; the edits are punishments and not meant to be hugs full of laughter and sunshine.

We used this warning system at Chronicles and ended up discarding it. Frankly, it's dumb as hell to leave a penalty on someone's record forever for a sig violation or language rules. If you can't remember the times when someone violated the rules, it doesn't happen often enough to matter (or you're not active enough). Again - judging on a case-by-case basis is just better.

Okay guys, that's enough. All suggestions will be considered.

Maybe.

<u>Not</u>Woot Moderator

[complich8]

there ya go. Now you've said something useful! I knew you had it in you.

Really, there hasn't been a lot of discussion about the warning system. I think the complaints are probably valid, it doesn't seem to be a workable deterrent and it seems to punish people for being more active (ie: more active means more likely to rack up small infractions from time to time). I think it's got its place, but that we need to define more clear guidelines for the mods to follow for it, and develop it to a more complete system, and do something so we don't have to have the moderators doing the warnings type in "User has been warned" or something like that, which sort of makes it seem like the mod is rubbing it in when it's more to make sure that other mods don't come along and re-warn the same person. That's just annoying.

The invisible mod system was largely a response to the fact that everyone was sucking up to the mods and trying to have "buddy admins", so they can go and bitch to a mod when someone says something they don't like. It's stupid political shit like that, more than anything else, that we were trying to avoid. To an extent, we've succeeded. I've seen a fair few of the current mods participating as regular forum users in threads, without the irritation of people constantly kissing their asses. But it's a matter of style, and I think the jury is still out on it.

Every community is different. This community is shallow and sporadic, with a high turnover rate. What works for SA (a deeper, more active and more dedicated community, with a deeper, more dedicated admins and mods) may not work for us, because our crew isn't the same. We have some mods who might log in to the forums twice a week these days., and that's if we're lucky. Some admins are even less present than the mods, either logging in pretty much never, or not taking part in the community. So maybe some arbitrary system we decide on will work better here than other places. Maybe not, only thing we can do is try it out.

Which is pretty much why I didn't lock this thread right out. I'd sort of like to keep this open to discussion. Really, if there isn't the slightest inkling of dialogue or discussion about the system as it is, we're not going to know how people feel about it, because we (the forum admins, not so much the mods) are really pretty out of touch with the community as a whole. At least, that's how I feel about it.

I tend to be pretty forgiving as a rule. I'm one of the more "laissez-faire" people around here. I can think of at least 3 or 4 mods who would have locked this thread on sight, no questions asked, and tossed another warning at ?igma for good measure, and the only reason I didn't is that I felt there was a kernel of valid discussion in what otherwise amounted to a steaming pile.

But, you're right. This thread should die, before it degenerates into more of a "bitch at the mods here" thread than it's already become.