Theory: Why people like/hate Kira/Shinn

[DDBen]

I said Shinn and Lunimaria look alike not that they have similar personalities all I stated is there is no way to compare them without knowing a more complete background of both. You can absolutely compare there current personalities which are absolutely nothing alike but you can't compare anything beyond that as we still know next to nothing about Lunimaria and lots about Shinn.

As far as Sai goes as far as we know he was a rich brat who had a arranged marriage with Fllay in the first place. There is no reason to believe she was ever in love with the guy in the first place as nothing at all was in the series to really show that. Sure he got hurt by her sleeping with Kira but he could have been the only one ever invested in such a engagement. While on the other hand Fllay could have only ever been marrying Sai for her father.

That aside I don't think mass murder as Shinn has commited multiple times against prisoners of war is not any more valid a way to get your revenge. Atleast Kira got something out of the deal and by the end of the series Fllay did realise her mistakes and change. GSD is not over Shinn could still have the same redemption factor but the fact he wanted a girl with the mental capacity of a 3 year old does not make anything he's done more just.

I also do not hate Shinn I think he's a complete jackass in the series and am definatly hoping he will be killed by the end, but is he certainly better written then the vast majority of GS or GSD characters mostly because he's a main character.

[NineTailsKitsu]

Shinn mostly wanted to protect Stellar, as Shinn is compensating for the fact that he couldn't protect his family. As for the Sai situation, how would you feel If a girl you had feelings for just up and fucked one of your best friends?

[Mae]

I always felt bad for Sai. He had feelings for Fllay, but she tossed aside their relationship without a second thought for her revenge. Fllay did some really awful things in Seed, but I see her character and motives as distinctly different from Shinn.

In the beginning of the show Fllay had a lot of pride in herself due to her position as a favorite daughter of a powerful politician. When she lost that she felt like she lost everything that was important about her and kind of lost her sense of self. She threw away her pride to get her revenge thinking it didn't matter anymore. Since she couldn't fight herself she cold-bloodedly decided to use a former friend as her weapon. She was more desperate and self-destructive than Shinn is since unlike him she thought she had nothing left to lose. I think if she had the skills to pilot a gundam she would have simply killed every coordinator she could get her hands on, not caring if she was killed in the process.

Shinn, on the other hand, has a very strong sense of self, to the point of arrogance. Yeah, revenge is one of his motives, but not his only motive. He doesn't want to kill every single person in Orb. He would be happy if their government fell apart, but he woudn't sacrifice himself to accomplish it. Shinn also wants power to protect others he cares for and the honor and glory he can get winning battles. He is far from giving up.

I suppose if you compared them you could say that they are both selfish characters, and that could be a disliked characteristic, but I wouldn't say that Shinn is GSD's version of Fllay, they are too different.

[Blues]

Shinn > Kira

Watched GSD before GS

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: DDBen
I said Shinn and Lunimaria look alike not that they have similar personalities all I stated is there is no way to compare them without knowing a more complete background of both. You can absolutely compare there current personalities which are absolutely nothing alike but you can't compare anything beyond that as we still know next to nothing about Lunimaria and lots about Shinn.

As far as Sai goes as far as we know he was a rich brat who had a arranged marriage with Fllay in the first place. There is no reason to believe she was ever in love with the guy in the first place as nothing at all was in the series to really show that. Sure he got hurt by her sleeping with Kira but he could have been the only one ever invested in such a engagement. While on the other hand Fllay could have only ever been marrying Sai for her father.

That aside I don't think mass murder as Shinn has commited multiple times against prisoners of war is not any more valid a way to get your revenge. Atleast Kira got something out of the deal and by the end of the series Fllay did realise her mistakes and change. GSD is not over Shinn could still have the same redemption factor but the fact he wanted a girl with the mental capacity of a 3 year old does not make anything he's done more just.

I also do not hate Shinn I think he's a complete jackass in the series and am definatly hoping he will be killed by the end, but is he certainly better written then the vast majority of GS or GSD characters mostly because he's a main character.

What you said was that Shinn with boobs is Lunamaria and that is why she is more popular, because she got boobs. Which is not the case as Shinn is disliked for his personality not because he is a male.

As for the Sai comment, Sai may have been rich but he didn't act like a rich brat and he had feelings for Frey. Even if Frey didn't have feelings for him what she did still isn't right. Why don't you go ahead and call Lacus, Asuran, Cagalli for rich brats as they obviously are loaded.

How the hell can you say that Kira got something out of the "deal"? He was fucking used and he kicked one of his best friends ass because of this deal. Do you think he looks back at it and says "Oh well at least i got laid". Fuck how do you think? I won't even begin about the marriage as that is not relevant.

Shinn kills. He is a soldier. Now the way he has killed sometimes are not valid but that was one time, he was happy cause he managed to save alot of people and did wrong but he got corrected by Asuran right after. Everybody does mistakes, even on the battlefield.

The rest of the times he has simply sunk enemy warships and the like and that is what you are supposed to do in battle. A soldier that doesn't kill has nothing to do on the battlefield, just look where it got Kira he was nearly dying at the bottom of the sea. Asuran has been on the best ship in the ZAFT army and piloting a state of the art suit and still he couldn't do shit, he just wasted resources. Asuran still is one of the best pilots in the whole fucking army but when he was afraid to fight he was weaker than Lunamaria.

[Deblas]

I'm a Kira fan. Watched GS prior to GSD if anyones interested in knowing.

I like Kira better because of his character development in Seed. Started as a crybaby, then manipulated killing machine then so on until he matured. What I see in Shinn is anger,angst and depression. And it hasn't changed throughout the series. Where in eps.36 and he still is the arrogant bastard who does what he likes and thinks about himself only. Not counting the time when he broke some gate where he got a bitchslap by Athrun. And now its even worse now that Stellar is dead.

[Kirakun]

Kira > Shinn; Watched GS prior to GSD

[naruto-kira]

kira>shinn

shinn is the stupidest main character i seen, he is so stupid, and arrogant, he's the one who kill stella anyways, not kira, he broke the shield..

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: PSJ
What you said was that Shinn with boobs is Lunamaria and that is why she is more popular, because she got boobs. Which is not the case as Shinn is disliked for his personality not because he is a male.

As for the Sai comment, Sai may have been rich but he didn't act like a rich brat and he had feelings for Frey. Even if Frey didn't have feelings for him what she did still isn't right. Why don't you go ahead and call Lacus, Asuran, Cagalli for rich brats as they obviously are loaded.

How the hell can you say that Kira got something out of the "deal"? He was fucking used and he kicked one of his best friends ass because of this deal. Do you think he looks back at it and says "Oh well at least i got laid". Fuck how do you think? I won't even begin about the marriage as that is not relevant.

Shinn kills. He is a soldier. Now the way he has killed sometimes are not valid but that was one time, he was happy cause he managed to save alot of people and did wrong but he got corrected by Asuran right after. Everybody does mistakes, even on the battlefield.

First off I never have liked Sai period. His personality and place in GS was almost pointless. Yes he got hurt but basically no more then any kid who had his favorite toy stolden. Honestly Sai did next to nothing in GS and had next to zero character developement he was about as useful as a redshirt except he never even attempted to protect anyone.

As for Kira at that point Kira was breaking down the fact that Fllay(stop calling her frey that is not her name sub or dub) manipulated him to continue fighting essentially gave him a reason to keep fighting and even as the manipulative bitch she was she atleast gave Kira some comfort to come back too. I'm not supporting all of her actions but chances are had she not taken them Kira would have broken down and everyone on the AA would have ended up dead when Kira couldn't fight any longer. I know he was fighting to protect his friends but Fllay was honestly the only one who went that extra mile to atleast act like they truely cared about him as more then a means of survival.

As far as Shinn being a soldier its ok to kill thats just BS. Being a soldier does not give you a right to murder people who are defenceless. Yes Athran yelled at Shinn but that certainly didn't sink in at all. At this point Shinn has shown no signs of remorse for ANY of his actions. No matter what he simply shrugs things off and places the blame on anyone but himself thats simply a fact.

*Please note this is posted having seen episodes 1-35 of GSD so please do not comment on it using information from any newer episodes.

[naruto-kira]

yea shinn is a faggot your right, although kira wasn't really smart in the begining. he did a bunch of stupid things, but what kept him going is that he gotta protect his friends
no matter what, i bet if sai got killed kira who have taken back revenge for sai too. shinn is a stupid alittle kid and blamed org and eaf for killing his parents...,in war ppl die. there are
millions or people jus like him, and in those situation it happens both sides too, ppl from eaf got there family killed by zaft too. his character is really immature and stupid, all he does
is blame other ppl when he was the fault of killing stealla too, he broke stella shield, kira will never intentionally kill anyone all he wanted to do it to take down the mobile, it was shinn
that broke up the hatch and left stella unprotected. if it was anyone who killed stella it would be himself..

[Terracosmo]

I liked Sai's scene when he tried to steal the Strike. Of course he was never truly a major character, but that scene was just great because it was so... human, somehow.
Jealousy turned madness. Just like in real life!

[kAi]

Kira > Shinn
Sinn's a bitch, I don't like him.
Shinn has his head to far up Dullindaal's ass.

[Psyke]

I thnk Shinn's a pretty interesting character. Easy to hate him for what he did but still interesting.

[PSJ]

Frey Frey Frey Frey Frey FREY FREY FREY FREY FREEEEY!!!

I'm terribly sorry about that one i just couldn't resist.

Well DDBen it's clear that you hate both Sai and Shinn in the way you write and your "facts" are built upon your hate for these characters. I on the other hand hate both -FREY-, yes i did it again and Shinn but im trying to be fair.

If Frey backed off and didn't become psycho bitch Kira could have managed on his own, sure he would have cried some but i'm sure he would suck it up and turn out the same anyway. I don't think Kira got anything good from Frey at all.

Shinn did kill defenseless enemies once. In my opinion this is not something that can bring him as low as Frey. Sure it's not good but it is a hell of alot better than hurt people that care about you and love you. I would kill a bunch of "defensless" soldiers if i was a soldier over hurting people that care about me anyday.

Now i won't call my opinions facts as they obviously aren't just like yours. There isn't a single fact in your post it's all opinion.

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: DDBen
Yes he got hurt but basically no more then any kid who had his favorite toy stolden.

It is obvious that you've never been in an relationship. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]
I think Sai showed great strength at that time, pulling through as Archangel crew despite the fact that one of his best friends had a thing with his girlfriend. And the whole trying to steal Strike gig as I posted above.

I think it's funny how you seem to find things that justify Frey's (yes, I'm also more of a Frey guy than Fllay) actions yet you always find someway to make Shinn's actions look unforgivable. Hmm...

Also, isn't Sai's "real" name Ssigh? That's what I saw in the most recent of the subs anyway towards the end of Seed.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo

Originally posted by: DDBen
Yes he got hurt but basically no more then any kid who had his favorite toy stolden.

It is obvious that you've never been in an relationship. [img][/img]
I think Sai showed great strength at that time, pulling through as Archangel crew despite the fact that one of his best friends had a thing with his girlfriend. And the whole trying to steal Strike gig as I posted above.

I think it's funny how you seem to find things that justify Frey's (yes, I'm also more of a Frey guy than Fllay) actions yet you always find someway to make Shinn's actions look unforgivable. Hmm...

Also, isn't Sai's "real" name Ssigh? That's what I saw in the most recent of the subs anyway towards the end of Seed.

Incorrect on the relationship part Terra but let me make a more relevant statement on the Fllay relationship. As far as Sai goes to me I can't recall a single thing he did in all of Seed besides slug Kira at one point over the Fllay matter. As far as the relationship he had with Fllay there is no actual way to determine weather it was a random arranged marrage decided by the parents or one where they met at school and fell in love and decided to get engaged. If it was arranged once her dad was killed, going upon the assumption her mom was dead or out of the picture, all bets were off on it. We honestly don't have enough of a family background on either character to validate any argument on the relationship they had. As far as I am concerned I believe it was a arranged political marriage considering the political importance of Fllay's father.

So to me basically Sai might have liked the ide of marrying Fllay after all she was a important figure with a prominent father, wealth and beauty. I just didn't see at any point in GS that her and Sai had a concrete relationship to begin with I don't deney what she did was wrong I simply argue the possibility that what she did wasn't nearly as bad as your portraying. I considered her a daddy's girl who would honestly do anything for her father so that is why I see it more of a arranged marriage to begin with.

As for names I hate the name Fllay its however obviously what the writers intended her name to be as it was left unchanged in the english dub. (please also note often they will change names go try and watch a episode of One Piece if you need some examples but the subs and the dub matching up is why I have resigned to calling her Fllay).
As far as Sai goes I think that its definatly correct even if Ssigh is the japanese spelling of the name as both are pronounced the same.

[Jurojin]

Good to see that some Yzak air-time has brought you back to your senses, Terra-

Sai... had good reasons for being upset with Kira and Fllay. I mean, he actually did care about and liked Fllay, in that way, and as far as he knew, it was reciprocated. Her flipping out like that, and Kira not looking past his own pain to see what was going on (not blaming him, just saying), are valid reasons for Sai to be hurt.

Shinn > Fllay.

Fllay was evil. Shinn has his own issues, but at least he's not manipulating and screwing up everyone else's life up for revenge. He's straightforward and open about what he does. Fllay tore up friendships, gave Kira a complex, broke Sai's heart. All Shinn has done is love a psychopath and assault Kira. And gunned down some unarmed soldiers. Shinn really is the less of two evils in this case.

[romancing_xaga]

Kira = Shinn (GS b4 GSD)

- Stop looking at your feet and start staring ahead on the road people... If two great force collides, 1 big boom is to be expected. The survivor would be Asuran. Muahahahahahahahhahaha

[Terracosmo]

@Jurojin: It was only a matter of time [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

@DDBen: Even if the marriage was arranged, Sai obviously cared about Frey. We'll never find out exactly how much, but it seems to me he cared enough for me to discard the comparison to a kid losing his toy. As for why I think Frey is a worse person than Shinn.. well, everybody else have already said what I want to say about that matter.

[MeroTZ]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo

@DDBen: Even if the marriage was arranged, Sai obviously cared about Frey. We'll never find out exactly how much, but it seems to me he cared enough for me to discard the comparison to a kid losing his toy. As for why I think Frey is a worse person than Shinn.. well, everybody else have already said what I want to say about that matter.

I think Sai very genuinely loved Fllay, and was excedingly upset when she started mindf***ing Kira. I think he was somewhat upset that it was obvious to him what Fllay was doing, and Kira refused to see it.

As for her being a worse person than Shinn... well, while you can lay the deaths of countless Soldiers killed by nukes in the final days of the war at her feet (I'll give this disk the bad guy gave me to my friends, surely it cant be a trap! DUR!) she hasn't actually killed anyone intentionally. And she redeemed herself. Shinn has done neither of these things, and therefore is the worse person [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

EDIT: Also, Fllay should have known that you never trust a guy in a mask. Shinn DID make that same mistake. Hmm... coincidence?