Originally posted by: PSJ
Oh yea? I don't.
Stellar's is worse than Shinn. In a war you don't kill civilians even if they support the opposing side. There is no way you can justify killing civilians, just realize it Stellar's actions were worse than Shinn's.
From a civilian standpoint her actions were definatly worse.
From a military standpoint Shinn's actions were worse because he acted against orders.
its all a matter of perspective really.
from a military standpoint civilian casualties are unacceptable, so in both ways stellar was being far worse
completely incorrect when the EA's purpose is to kill all coordinators so civilian casualties are actually something there after. How else do you explain launching nukes at colonies.Originally posted by: darkshadow
from a military standpoint civilian casualties are unacceptable, so in both ways stellar was being far worse
edit: slight revision its Blue cosmoses plan to kill all coordinators they just happened to be running both those opperations as the EA. In other words there are no civilians when your aiming for genocide. Heck look at Hitler and show me where he felt killing a civilian was unacceptable.
you are wrong, then if you aim it like that it isnt a military standpoint ne more, but a personal ideal/standpoint
I really would love to know why on earth you'd make Hitler your example of a person who had a militaristic view on things. Because frankly, the man was fucking insane and very much ruled by his own emotions. The very reason why Germany fell was because Hitler unwisely ordered an offense on Russia. Germany did indeed have some brilliant military minds. Hitler however, was pretty much the opposite of that. A man ruled by his own bigotry and hate.Originally posted by: DDBen
Heck look at Hitler and show me where he felt killing a civilian was unacceptable.
With that said, Shinn killed military personnel who held prisoners.
Destroy, decimated an entire city filled with civilians.
Once again, BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE.
/ No, you warrant no villain's exposition from me.
i would have to say hitler was ruled by power not his emotion but anyways back to GSD there is so many angles these situations can be viewed at however i think we should only look at if from the millitaristic and personal angle all the others just confuse things
i think hitler was used as an example because as insane hitler could be it doesn't mean he would kill is own people, he also had ideas of how he viewed life. and the war on naturals and coordinators arent that much of a difference. hitler believed in supremacy and survival of the fittest...he felt his kind r superior. and thats the main plot of the war, if u watched gundam seed. the naturals are jelous, and feared they gonna get eliminated or whatever. that is roots of the war. and thats how everything started.
Well Nai I would recommend you read the post by TheFlash as he is correct. Hitler believed that only his supreme race should remain and to do so he killed everyone who he felt that would pollute the supreme race. As both naturals and Coordinator top brass essentially beleaves those who are not of like kind need to be killed off entirely I would say thiat the underlining reason for the war is directly related to hitlers way of thinking.
There are no civilians in genocide its a simple concept you kill everyone of a specific group with no regaurd for civilians. Make no mistake the wars in the seed universe have all been about genocide. In the case of Dullindale he believes everyone should be killed so the world can be reset. In the case of the EA they believe that all coordinators need to be killed.
If you can't understand the EA does not have civilians in mind at all only those who are the enemy and those that arn't you have no idea what the series is about. Its the same way in episode 36 of GSD that dullindale was able to so casually toss Athran aside the moment he felt he was of no further use to him.
thats not the goddamn point man, the point is that in what way you want to present it, civillian casualties are always unacceptable from a military standpoint, what the hell the country leaders decide is THEIR point of view, NOT a military point of view, a soldier is never trained to take down civillians, heck if possible enemy soldiers become POW, so really stop spouting nonsense
shinn killed military, thats exactly what a soldier is supposed to do, supress the enemy by all means possible, unless an other order is given ( like when athrun said NOT to destroy gaia, he OBEYED)
stellar used the ultra power of destroy to BLAST away cities FILLED with civillians, that is NOT a military way of taking action, i bet that if neo could, he would not permit the attack, but seeing he is not in command he HAS to follow orders
you are pratically saying its the military way of walking up to a 8 year old child, and unloading your smg on her.......fool
im not to sure about that shadow didnt dijbil tell them to use destroy to burn down everthing i think i remember him mentioning that. also the point ddben brought is true the opposing sides of the seed universe are really trying to commit genocide and could care less about civilians the eaf didnt care when they blew up junis 7 which was a agricultural colony
yes im not saying that isnt true, like i said it doesnt matter what the leaders say ( in this case djibril ), its their own pov, it doesnt have to be in line with the way the military should act, and yes its about genocide, but again those ways, are always the leaders pov, not the military, im not saying those things didnt happen, im just saying they shouldnt be labeled as military
You do realise that Stellar is a extended and as such someone who blindly does what she's told. To her it comes down to kill or be killed and everyone in those cities was out to get her.Originally posted by: darkshadow
yes im not saying that isnt true, like i said it doesnt matter what the leaders say ( in this case djibril ), its their own pov, it doesnt have to be in line with the way the military should act, and yes its about genocide, but again those ways, are always the leaders pov, not the military, im not saying those things didnt happen, im just saying they shouldnt be labeled as military
where did i mention stellar being in control?? thats y i mentioned neo, if he could im quite sure that attack would never have happend
you said that from a military standpoint that civilian casualties are always a bad thing. The point is she's a killer who was made to not have issues with that kind of thing. The only reason civilian casualties ever matter in war is because of the media and the mental strain killing a innocent has on a person. To stellar there all no innocents only people out to get her. This all boils down to the fact that to her and from the standpoint of the EA that killing civilians who are against them is every bit as good as killing enemy soldiers, as in the end you plan to kill them all reguardless it just saves time and effort later.Originally posted by: darkshadow
where did i mention stellar being in control?? thats y i mentioned neo, if he could im quite sure that attack would never have happend
incorrect,Originally posted by: DDBen
This all boils down to the fact that to her and from the standpoint of the EA that killing civilians who are against them is every bit as good as killing enemy soldiers, as in the end you plan to kill them all reguardless it just saves time and effort later.
you confuse the EAF with Jibril and his bunch of goons
Jibril and most of his "partners" are most likely anti-coordinator (atleast that's what you mean i think)
but the EAF as an organization is not, sure there are bound to be people IN the EAF that hate coordinators
but as an organization it isn't after "whiping out all coordinators"
just try to see the EAF and Logos as 2 different things, not the same thing
Love is fiction, misery is my only friend
Wow this topic has gone so far off topic that is possible i think. Just drop this discussion.
yea, i gone kinda of off, but i think thats is the reaon y people hate shinn, or kira.
i think if the people likes GIL and zaft they will like shinn.
but for the people thats like orb and AA, they will like kira
and Milatary and War is the same thing..., i dont think it matter in wut stand point. objectives is the same shit, kill the target and protect wut u believe in...and soldier r suppose to follow orders and yes....but they still have a choice and decision...no one can tell u wut to do if u dont want to do it. its wut u believe and thats why u do it, and thats why u fight. shinn, athrun, kira, they also have broken orders.
I don't hate either of them though I began watching GSD while I was finishing SEED since I sadly must admit that the first 30 episodes I saw of SEED were the english dub though I then learned that boxtorrents had a collection of subs of SEED and I immediately downloaded those. So I guess it would look like this:
Kira = Shinn; don't hate either, since both share great pain.
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