Duel and Buster

[masamuneehs]

Without descending into the gratitous orgy of Yzak-loving...

Suits were outdated, but I do think hving more coordination in the ZAFT forces, with creating special units for closer range (Duels) and backed up by long range ones (Busters) would be strategically genius for ZAFT up in space with all that room to employ formations and specialized squadrons. Like knights in front, archers in back. This type of specialization would benefit suiting the skills of the soldiers, rather than putting a guy who sucks with a sword into a position where he may get entangled in melee, OR putting a good scrapper in a position where he needs to hit a target from far away when he has terrible aim. AND most imporantly, eliminate alot of the confusion that always seems to be going on in these battles. Granted it wouldn't look as cool, but the military thrives on organization and specialization, and just purely developing and issuing suits that arent geared towards pilots and unacceptably throwing them out there into a chaotic battlefield...

Wait, wait I'm getting off topic here. But you see what I'm saying? You could even have a specialized covert ops squadrons of Blitz units too! And put DRAGOON units to the command ships and defend against huge missile strikes. Plus, how about some formations so you dont have all your battle ships and cruisers going willy-nill all over the place?

[PSJ]

Haven't you seen the Buster-like ZAKU's? Deakka pilots one and Luna pilots one.

[masamuneehs]

PSJ I have no clue who you were replying to but I really thought those units were just regular ZAKUs that happened to always go out with a gigantic Beam Rifle. I was referring to customizing the actual mobile suit to fit the preferred type of combat pilots excel at and deploying them in organized platoons and even more organized battalions. Just throwing a MS a certain kind of gun doesnt really change the make of the MS

[MrTicTac]

he prolly means the zaku's with the big beam rifle, was modeled after deakka's buster, combat data-wise etc

"Just throwing a MS a certain kind of gun doesnt really change the make of the MS"

i guess not technically, but for most weapons (for gundams) guns/rifles are customized for the MS

you could say that the big rifles those zakus are using now are a mass produced version of deakka's buster sorta like how they mass produced the beam rifles for the ground version gundams (08th ms team etc) after the first gundam's rifle

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
PSJ I have no clue who you were replying to but I really thought those units were just regular ZAKUs that happened to always go out with a gigantic Beam Rifle. I was referring to customizing the actual mobile suit to fit the preferred type of combat pilots excel at and deploying them in organized platoons and even more organized battalions. Just throwing a MS a certain kind of gun doesnt really change the make of the MS

You were complaining that ZAFT lacked Buster-like units, i gave you one. A ZAKU with a beam cannon, Buster-like enough don't you think?

How is it the same fighting with a close combat ZAKU with a normal beam rifle and better mobility and a ZAKU with a beam cannon with less mobility?

It's the same suit with diffrent weapons sure but the beam cannon is fucking Buster-like. So what do you want to change for the MS to become more Buster-like and longrange capable? Remember these are grunt suits, they're not Gundams.

[RoninChaos]

As soon as "freedom class" mobile suits were created, it was OVER for the 1st generation gundams. Duel and Buster were stolen, ZAFT took what they needed from them and then they were discarded. And now even Grunt suits have firepower that match and even exceed the firepower that Duel and Buster had. A skilled pilot in a ZAKU could take out Duel or Buster in combat.

Duel and Buster suck now. You people need to stop living in the past.

[bigdaddy843]

NNNNOOOOOOOOO, Buster Duel I LOVE U. Zakus dont have phase shift and the versatility shown by Buster and Duel. We are not living in the past, they are 2 good suits which simply need overhauls. If u want to talk about out dated, Freedom would also be considered out dated. Zakus don't look half as good anyway and is'nt it the skills of the pilots that count and the OS? Like I said, they simply need upgrades

[Terracosmo]

Freedom/Justice were just as new as Calamity, Raider & Forbidden... and Duel destroyed both Forbidden & Raider.
So I wouldn't say they were THAT outdated...

Of course, that was partly because Yzak was a superior pilot to the druggies... but still.

[RoninChaos]

Originally posted by: bigdaddy843
NNNNOOOOOOOOO, Buster Duel I LOVE U. Zakus dont have phase shift and the versatility shown by Buster and Duel. We are not living in the past, they are 2 good suits which simply need overhauls. If u want to talk about out dated, Freedom would also be considered out dated. Zakus don't look half as good anyway and is'nt it the skills of the pilots that count and the OS? Like I said, they simply need upgrades

Duel and Buster were part of the 1st gerneration of suits in Seed, which placed alot of emphasis on the "newly" developed Phase Shift Technology.

Phase Shift armor doesn't matter anymore now that all grunt suits use BEAM rifles which come STANDARD (which PS cannot defend against). One hit to a critical area and your finished, no matter HOW much armor you have there, which is why the 2nd generation of suits in seed were created (Freedom, Justice, Forbidden, Calamity etc) with more thrusters and more verniers to avoid beam attacks.

Now if you consider Freedom outdated, the you MUST flat out agree that Duel and Buster are completely outdated.

Duel and Buster are NOT versatile in anyway. Buster is completely an artillery type while Duel is a generic gundam that later received an armor upgrade that added an extra missile and beam attack. The suits themselves cannot adapt.

Strike on the other hand CAN and SHOULD be considered the most versatile out of the 5 original suits in the 1st generation of Seed because of the changeable weapon packs.

[RoninChaos]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Freedom/Justice were just as new as Calamity, Raider & Forbidden... and Duel destroyed both Forbidden & Raider.
So I wouldn't say they were THAT outdated...

At the end of Seed, everything that made Duel special (Beam Rifle technology, Beam Saber technology) was already integrated into common grunt mobile suits. Even the novelty of Duel being one of the 1st Gundams to have Phase Shift was already gone.

Yzak killed the pilots with his skill. He had a massive handicap because Duel was already outdated by newer gundams. Put another pilot in Duel and Duel would have gone down early and fast.

Pilot skill doesn't make any gundam less outdated. An outdated gundam is still an outdated gundam.

[Chris_Xion]

Im not buying that roninchaos.They upgraded Freedom to SF,Justice to IJ,Impulse to Destiny,Providence to Legend,so someone must have had the common sense to upgrade Duel and Buster,like say...Duel to Deathscythe Duel or Buster to Heavyarms Buster,im not saying they should use those names,but i juz luv the thought of Yzak owning everyone(except Kira and Athrun) in a Gundam with Beam Scythes,deflectors or black stealth wings,or Dearka using a Gundam with Dual Beam Machine Cannons...

[MeroTZ]

Originally posted by: Chris_Xion
Im not buying that roninchaos.They upgraded Freedom to SF,Justice to IJ,Impulse to Destiny,Providence to Legend,so someone must have had the common sense to upgrade Duel and Buster,like say...Duel to Deathscythe Duel or Buster to Heavyarms Buster,im not saying they should use those names,but i juz luv the thought of Yzak owning everyone(except Kira and Athrun) in a Gundam with Beam Scythes,deflectors or black stealth wings,or Dearka using a Gundam with Dual Beam Machine Cannons...

They did upgrade Buster and Duel.

They called the result a Zaku. The new generation Grunt suits are only Grunt suits because most of the people pilotting them lack the amazing skills of the main characters. The only gundams which are STRICTLY better than Zaku's/Windam's/Murasame's, and espcecially Goufs, are those which are Nuclear powered. Other than that, its all pilotting.

NOTE: While gundams are generally more heavily armed, their weapons essentially amount to a custom loadout. Having 15 beam cannons on Abyss really doesn't do it much good if it can only hit one target at a time. Not to mention that a precision shot from a single beam rifle kills a target dead as well as a volley from a Gundam, without wasting all that power. Also, as has been said, Phase Shift armor is a minor advantage now that beam weapons are the norm and not the exception.

That said, Yzak's skills are going to waste without a top of the line, Nuclear powered testbed mobile suit. I'm guessing the only reason that he wasn't issued Strike Freedom or Infinite Justice is because of his past history with the Three Ships Alliance.

Dullindal probably wants his potential to interfere limitted by giving him the weakest mobile suit Yzak can stand. I'm sure he's pissed to hell at his Zaku's limitations, but I'm sure he's happier there than in Duel.