Episode 34 (may contain SPOILERS)

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: Nai

Originally posted by: Motteh
so why couldn't you just think something like "if only he wouldn't have moved he wouldn't have died"

Because that's irrelevant to my point? My point is that Kira contributed to the death of Heine, which he obviously did. Nothing else.

yes Kira contributed to Heine's death
but so did Heine himself
Kira did in the manner of cutting of Heine's Gouf's right front arm which caused Heine to zone out
but given the fact Heine was in FAITH and thus an experienced soldier should be more then enough reason
to see that Heine should have been able to avoid the zoning out

in the end the main contributor to Heine's demise was the beamsaber attached to Gaia's wing that ran him through

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Nai
Kira killed Stellar. All of the responsibility lies with him.

You can't have the cake and eat it. SORRY!

Oh, and he wouldn't have been in that position in the first place if it was not for Kira. So much for being hit in that position undamaged, eh.

We arn't going to agree on Heine so I'm going to drop that subject for the moment.

Now as for Stellar I'm sorry but until I know what on earth she died from I can't blame it on anyone. Shinn dumped her in a Lake at which point there was no blood. So she had no open wounds. Also she didn't have anything missing or any noteable physical damage in the slightest. So basically as it had nothing to do with her body that we can see that pretty much leaves she suffocated because someone cut a hole in the cockpit of Destroy. If her body was unrecoverable after Destroy went down I would be happy to admit Kira was the one that Killed her, but for now I like the explination that Shinn drowned her in a lake and decided that he couldn't of done it and in turn blames Kira.

That aside I'm not saying that as a serious reason in fact I think the writers completely screwed up on this one.

[Guardian_2000]

By your reasoning Nai, Shinn or even Rey contributed to the death of Heine. If Shinn hadn't done something like take out Freedom earlier or beaten Gaia earlier Heine wouldn't of been killed by Stellar. Not to mention Heine wouldn't of been in the position he was in if he hadn't shot at Freedom in the first place. Since he didn't like Freedom coming into the battle and just disabling everyone. Specifically Kira sorta came in and beat on his opponent moving onto the next one. Where Heine had alil bit more of a harder time with Gaia. Hurt his ego and pride alil perhaps.

Now why are you guys still bickering over this and whats the main point of the argument. Get the main point out specifically noted and it will be dealt with. No more bitching and moaning.

[Nai]

Originally posted by: Motteh
yes Kira contributed to Heine's death

Precisely.

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000[/b]
By your reasoning Nai, Shinn or even Rey contributed to the death of Heine.

Directly =! Indirectly. There's a big difference. Don't mention my reasoning if you can't even comprehend that, please.

And DDBen, you're now accusing Shinn of DROWNING Stellar?

... I'm out of here.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Nai

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000[/b]
By your reasoning Nai, Shinn or even Rey contributed to the death of Heine.

Directly =! Indirectly. There's a big difference. Don't mention my reasoning if you can't even comprehend that, please.

And DDBen, you're now accusing Shinn of DROWNING Stellar?

... I'm out of here.

No I'm accusing the writers and Animators of putting in absolutely no means that could actually cause her death. So Shinn drowning her is as good a explination as any.

[Guardian_2000]

Apparently can't take criticism of ideas and viewpoints like the rest of us. So you are saying Kira directly killed Heine? I didn't see that one. You have to pick one or the other. Did Kira indirectly or directly. Your reasoning is flawed and I can comprehend that quite easily. You want to belittle the other peoples ideas here. Get a clue your gonna have others go over yours as well. If Kira is responsible for Heine's death, Athrun, Rey, and even Shinn can be linked. Kira left Heine after preventing him from attacking Kira.

For another note: Heine was dead from the moment his character got a VA. There was no way they'd of kept such a VA for any prolonged period of time. They just can't do that. I can only imagine what they had to pay him.

[Nai]

I promise I'll be out after this one, I need sleep.

DDBen, well, Shinn slicing open the cockpick and then Kira shoving his saber into the charging cannon probably made her take some damage. Yes, I do indeed consider Shinn a direct contributor to her death. She was obviously dead before he threw her in the lake tho.

Now for Guardian_2000:

Kira directly contributed to the death of Heine, much like Shinn did to the death of Stellar. So no, obviously you have not comprehended anything at all.

Thank you.

[Guardian_2000]

How did he directly contribute to the death of Heine? Did he push him in the way of Stellar? Did he use his newtype powers to put Heine in daze? Obviously you don't comprehend your own understanding of what directly and indirectly mean.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: Nai

Originally posted by: Motteh
yes Kira contributed to Heine's death

Precisely.

you just choose to use from my statement what can be used to your advantage and ignore everything else right?
how pitiful

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
Apparently can't take criticism of ideas and viewpoints like the rest of us. So you are saying Kira directly killed Heine? I didn't see that one. You have to pick one or the other. Did Kira indirectly or directly. Your reasoning is flawed and I can comprehend that quite easily. You want to belittle the other peoples ideas here. Get a clue your gonna have others go over yours as well. If Kira is responsible for Heine's death, Athrun, Rey, and even Shinn can be linked. Kira left Heine after preventing him from attacking Kira.

For another note: Heine was dead from the moment his character got a VA. There was no way they'd of kept such a VA for any prolonged period of time. They just can't do that. I can only imagine what they had to pay him.

Nai meant the =! to be a =/ i think, concluding this from what he said after that (it's a big difference)
i'm not trying to defend him totally just in this case, since i think you misunderstood him on that part
although even if i say that his statement after that (Don't mention my reasoning if you can't even comprehend that, please) doesn't make any sense at all

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Nai
I promise I'll be out after this one, I need sleep.

DDBen, well, Shinn slicing open the cockpick and then Kira shoving his saber into the charging cannon probably made her take some damage. Yes, I do indeed consider Shinn a direct contributor to her death. She was obviously dead before he threw her in the lake tho.

Now for Guardian_2000:

Kira directly contributed to the death of Heine, much like Shinn did to the death of Stellar. So no, obviously you have not comprehended anything at all.

Thank you.

The Shinn Drowned Stellar was NOT as serious comment in any way. I just hated the fact that they show Shinn with her out of the cockpit holding her at which point she goes "Shinn Like" then either dies or passes out its really unspecified and Shinn honestly doesn't bother to check much less give her CPR. After this Shinn wanders off tosses her in a lake not even pulling the shrapnel out of her suit. It just seemed rushed, random and uncalled for. I'm thinking more or less she suffocated from the fumes that shinn allowed in the cockpit with the hole he cut. Then he decided not to attempt to save her because she would have just ended up in the same place she was last time and thus making her suffer more was pointless.

My problem is in the end Shinn blames Kira for this when he is the one person who had absolutely nothing to do with Stellar. He disabled gaia once or twice and um yeah he stopped destroy from killing Shinn and who knows how many other people. That aside of all the possible people to blame he is the LEAST responsable for what happened.

[qilinkiddo]

Originally posted by: Nai
I promise I'll be out after this one, I need sleep.

DDBen, well, Shinn slicing open the cockpick and then Kira shoving his saber into the charging cannon probably made her take some damage. Yes, I do indeed consider Shinn a direct contributor to her death. She was obviously dead before he threw her in the lake tho.

Now for Guardian_2000:

Kira directly contributed to the death of Heine, much like Shinn did to the death of Stellar. So no, obviously you have not comprehended anything at all.

Thank you.

even if kira was contributing to heine death which was true but its indirectly...
if kira was the one who kill heine with his gun and stuff then that would be directly...

but after kira disable heine gundam...heine felt that he loses his face/pride
and feel that kira being too cocky who came to the battlefield out of sudden and disable every single gundam/mobile suit he seen...
his rage to get back to freedom that he did not notice gaia was coming from behind(correct it)
stellar using the beam sabre and killed heine from behind

its was stellar who directly kill heine...but kira who indirectly causes the death of heine

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: qilinkiddo
when he going to get his revenge on freedom

on what do you base that he was getting his revenge?
he was just floating there not moving an inch closer to Freedom

[MeroTZ]

Kira holds no blame at all for Heines death. Had Heine done the correct thing, he would have fallen back to Minerva for safety/repairs.

As for Stellar... without an autopsy (impossible due to Shinns actions) there is no way to know what killed her. Could be fumes, could be Shinns beam saber ignited the air in the cockpit and fried her lungs. Maybe it was the radiation released when Kira blew the positron cannonish things on hte chest.

One thing is for certain though. Had Shinn not exposed Stellar to the outside by cutting open Stellars cockpit, she probably would have been fine.

Kira isn't responsible for Stellars death any more than Shinn is. Just liek he's not responsible for Heines.

At least, unless we get more info on Stellars death. maybe kira did kill her, but right now, we dont know.

[Vegita]

Originally posted by: MeroTZ

One thing is for certain though. Had Shinn not exposed Stellar to the outside by cutting open Stellars cockpit, she probably would have been fine.

How's that? He would've stabbed right rhough that cockpit whether or not Shinn cut it open first.

[MeroTZ]

Originally posted by: Vegita

Originally posted by: MeroTZ

One thing is for certain though. Had Shinn not exposed Stellar to the outside by cutting open Stellars cockpit, she probably would have been fine.

How's that? He would've stabbed right rhough that cockpit whether or not Shinn cut it open first.

...Except that he never stabbed anywhere near the cockpit?

EDIT: Seriously, did you watch it? he destroyed Destroy's chest cannons, he never went near Stellar herself.

[PSJ]

Heine indirectly killed himself so you could say that he indirectly commited suicide by zoning out on the battlefield. He is a skilled enough pilot to get a prototype unit and being a member of Faith. He is skilled enough to not zone out on the battlefield, okey he got suprised but not enough to make him zone out.

You could link this back to Neo if you want. Neo indirectly killed Heine becuase he sent Stellar out into battle. Auel and Sting indirectly contributed becuase they were involved in stealing the Gundams.

Do you get my point?

[MeroTZ]

Originally posted by: PSJ
Heine indirectly killed himself so you could say that he indirectly commited suicide by zoning out on the battlefield. He is a skilled enough pilot to get a prototype unit and being a member of Faith. He is skilled enough to not zone out on the battlefield, okey he got suprised but not enough to make him zone out.

You could link this back to Neo if you want. Neo indirectly killed Heine becuase he sent Stellar out into battle. Auel and Sting indirectly contributed becuase they were involved in stealing the Gundams.

Do you get my point?

Exactly! The only person with any -real- responsibility for his death was Stellar. She acted specifically to kill him.

No one tried to kill Stellar. Kiras final action against her certainly endangered her life (she was very close and very exposed to a giant cannon that exploded) but it was essentialy the same as him taking hte weapon off any other suit. He acted to disarm Destroy, but never specifically to kill stellar.

[FelixZeroAlastor]

All right for all of you who want to know how Stellar died I have a theory.

Stellar fell pretty far from Destroy. I don't know how tall destroy is but I believe that when Kira blew up destroy's positron cannons, Stellar was thrust from the cockpit from that height as the cockpit combusted. Destroy was a third to a half a mile from where Shinn found Stellar. Seems to me that Stellar probably broke something pretty important which probably led to her death. All I know is that if she flew out of Destroy like I described that means that it had to be a pretty powerful explosion. If you look at the episode you will see that she had to fly out of the Destroy over all of those demolished buildings then somehow into an open area. As to why there was no blood, lazy animators or that was a really a good and crash safe suit. She probably could've lived for a little while if Shinn hadn't moved her. I'm no doctor but I was aware that you aren't supposed to move someone if they have a serious injury. Shinn picking her up like he did probably is what finally killed Stellar in the end. Thus Stellar's death is Shinn's fault. I seriously doubt that she was still alive when Shinn dropped her in the lake.

For those of you who still can't figure out how Shinn peirced Kira's Shield and Gundam, Shinn threw the first sword and put a gash in Kira's shield and then used the second sword (while moving at full speed) and trust the sword throuh the sword and the gundam. Kira though planned his escape in that very moment. As Kira was stabbed, Kira pointed his sword so that it would end up taking out the Impulses main camera, some sensors, and straight through the left side of the suit as they were engulfed by the blast. As for that explosion it was indeed the Tanhausser reacting with the water because as Talia stated herself that it would be to late once the AA submerged which is why she turned the Minerva. She knew that they would miss and braced it for impact. Kira just fled during the explosion. Why the impulse was so messed up after the smoke cleared, well Kira had to pull out his saber didn't he?

[Deblas]

Most likely she suffered from internal bleeding due to the crash from when she flew out of Destroy. Thats probably why they didn't put any cuts or blood on her. It all happened internally.

[valkirie19]

If you remember correctly Heine flew himself into the line of attack stellar took to kill Kira. Now I'm no military strategist, but if my mobile suit is diabled I'm not going to fly in and try to attack anyone. Kira wasn't at fault for that. Heine and Stellar were for not knowing when to stop fighting.