Episode 34 (may contain SPOILERS)

[Guardian_2000]

Once again I come on and still see this thread hasn't moved. Atleast the Shinn/Kira is a better pilot discussion ended. I've come to rain on peoples parade and give new info that some seem to have missed.

Sorry to burst peoples bubbles. But from the general community consensus from outside of woot. I have gone over the animation frame by frame. The explosion that really big one is the explosion from Minerva firing the Tannhauser. The final moments of the fight between Impulse and Freedom are occuring the same time as Minerva fires. You can see the beam dissapaiting as the explosion grows. Looks like Freedom doesn't blow up as there is only one explosion and not two. Now how on earth could the Tannhauser create such an explosion not having hit the AA. Well thats whats currently being discussed but the big theory that seems to be going is that when the Tannhauser hit the water it started to evaporate and then ignited the massive amount of hydrogen that was created. In essence a giant hydrogen bomb went off. Freedom and Impulse were pretty far out and closer to the explosion as it envelopes Freedom and Impulse we are left with a crispy Impulse but Freedom has slipped away with a bunch of parts from Freedom and Impulse left behind in the water. Since Shinn survived in his cockpit its safe to assume Kira was pretty well protected in his. Although Freedom won't really be usable. He somehow is apparently gonna get away

SPOILER


The remains of freedom are taken by the EA and used to create the Testament Gundam which will be appearing in Gundam ACE soon. Its featured in Gundam SEED Destiny Astray and is proposed to be built from N Dagger N and Freedom parts. Pretty cool if you ask me


/SPOILER

[XwingRob]

Oh yeah! I forgot about hydrogen explosions, so yeah I guess it wasn't an artist goof.

[Motteh]

well ofcourse Destiny still is an anime (a cartoon if you degrade it)
and basically the creators can do anything they want with that as an excuse
but that's my typical cynical response

[DDBen]

q]Originally posted by: Motteh
i guess it really is difficult for some people to just agree that maybe Shinn has enough skill to do some damage to Kira
that along side with his brilliant strategy (and yes it was brilliant) and Kira's "i must protect" flaws (if you must call them flaws)
i think it's not more then plain logic that Kira was defeated
true Kira is a remarkable pilot, but Shinn is too
and even the best trip and land on their face atleast once in their life

as for the reactor exploding i have to agree with the fact that a nuclear reactor needs some serious conditions met to explode, and i don't think a "mere" sword strike would be enough reason for it to do so

but most likely we'll find out later in the series exactly what happened (atleast i hope so so this chapter will be closed)[/quote]

The question here is not does Shinn have skills(for me atleast). As it is very clear that Shinn is Zafts ace at this point and this has been stated by MANY people upto this point. The question is more of if Shinn actually won. The situation ment that Kira's goal was to mearly escape while keeping the AA safe instead of bothering to actually defeat Shinn . The other end of this is Shinn was going all out to defeat Freedom as he currently see's it as the one that killed Stellar.

Now you can either assume at this point that Kira is still alive and that the AA escaped reguardless of exactly how it did it. Please do note that Talia at this point is even questioning and acting against Dullindales orders so its entirely possible she had them fire the Tannhauser meerly to give the Illusion that AA was destroyed so that the battle could be ended while she continues to evaluate the situation. Now in the end if this is the case Kira in fact won the battle by meerly surviving and protecting all those he cared about in the process.

As for Shinn he definatly believes he has killed Kira and avenged Stellar so at this point there is definatly the fact that Shinn does believe he has won the battle and accomplished his goals. This of course will be proven incorrect if Kira does in fact live. In the end Shinn definatly won the battle but its a hollow and incomplete victory.

The questions I have proposed about HOW Kira survives this battle is the main question. I personally happen to give Kira a lot of credit as a pilot, which I find it hard to believe anyone can disagree that Kira is a Super Ace at this point in GSD. Now as such I happen to believe that Kira was also using strategy in this battle and while Shinn was doing his best to win, Kira was only attempting not to lose. In the end Impulse is definatly toast unless they once again have more leg and chest flyers which I find increadably unlikely considering how many he has completely destroyed at this point on a ship that can't even get replacement Zaku's. So in the end to me this battle is at best a draw with both Pilots losing there mechs. On the other hand if you consider the fact that the operation was a complete failure for Zaft with them being unable to accomplish any of there goals dispite a LOT of heavily damaged hardware I happen to believe that this battle turned out as more of a loss for Zaft despite the personal victory Shinn feels he has achieved in avenging Stellar(who died of absolutely nothing and if anyone is really to blame it would be Shinn who in cutting open the cockpit disabled any saftymeasures the suit might have had to prevent her from dying).

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
Once again I come on and still see this thread hasn't moved. Atleast the Shinn/Kira is a better pilot discussion ended. I've come to rain on peoples parade and give new info that some seem to have missed.

Sorry to burst peoples bubbles. But from the general community consensus from outside of woot. I have gone over the animation frame by frame. The explosion that really big one is the explosion from Minerva firing the Tannhauser. The final moments of the fight between Impulse and Freedom are occuring the same time as Minerva fires. You can see the beam dissapaiting as the explosion grows. Looks like Freedom doesn't blow up as there is only one explosion and not two. Now how on earth could the Tannhauser create such an explosion not having hit the AA. Well thats whats currently being discussed but the big theory that seems to be going is that when the Tannhauser hit the water it started to evaporate and then ignited the massive amount of hydrogen that was created. In essence a giant hydrogen bomb went off. Freedom and Impulse were pretty far out and closer to the explosion as it envelopes Freedom and Impulse we are left with a crispy Impulse but Freedom has slipped away with a bunch of parts from Freedom and Impulse left behind in the water. Since Shinn survived in his cockpit its safe to assume Kira was pretty well protected in his. Although Freedom won't really be usable. He somehow is apparently gonna get away

I appreciate the fact you actually got some info on this Guardian as this is correct.

[Curium]

I believe I've commented on this before (I don't feel like looking), but look at WHERE Shinn hit Freedom. That is the location where Strike Freedom has a cannon built into it. Personally I believe that Freedom/Kira escaped when Shinn was distracted by the explosion. After this Freedom will obviously need major repairs, and since the suit that beat him is still active they would probably upgrade it. Have to fill in that gap in the torso, might as well add a cannon. At least 1 wing is completely gone, might as well redesign them with a better higher quality HiMAT system.

(I did see your post about the "Testament Gundam" Guardian, but at this time I choose to consider it as a rumor and go with this theory.)

[Millenium-Boyz]

Originally posted by: Curium
I believe I've commented on this before (I don't feel like looking), but look at WHERE Shinn hit Freedom. That is the location where Strike Freedom has a cannon built into it. Personally I believe that Freedom/Kira escaped when Shinn was distracted by the explosion. After this Freedom will obviously need major repairs, and since the suit that beat him is still active they would probably upgrade it. Have to fill in that gap in the torso, might as well add a cannon. At least 1 wing is completely gone, might as well redesign them with a better higher quality HiMAT system.

(I did see your post about the "Testament Gundam" Guardian, but at this time I choose to consider it as a rumor and go with this theory.)

what is testament gundam, and about the strike freedom see my post in this thread Spoilers thread

[Guardian_2000]

A rumor that has pics coming up in the August Gundam ACE. But if you want to go with that one guys idea. They take the remains and rebuild freedom as it was and give it to Cagalli.

FREEDOM ROUGE!!!

This is a shop so don't take it serious

[Curium]

Originally posted by: Millenium-Boyz
what is testament gundam

Look at the spoiler in the first post on this page.

[ArcZero]

hi i'm new here so hello all (^_^). what i think happened was that although the impulse did stab freedom, it didn't hit any vital parts like the njc or the cockpit. secondly if that were true, kira might've used the explosion to hide his escape. plus we don't see any of freedom's parts floating in the sea after the explosion. so that's my opinion.

[Madell]

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000

SPOILER


The remains of freedom are taken by the EA and used to create the Testament Gundam which will be appearing in Gundam ACE soon. Its featured in Gundam SEED Destiny Astray and is proposed to be built from N Dagger N and Freedom parts. Pretty cool if you ask me


/SPOILER

WoW Thnx for the info, is this about ep 34 ? NO ! stop posting freaky deaky spoilers...posst spoilers in the speculation thread !!

[Mut]

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
...Well thats whats currently being discussed but the big theory that seems to be going is that when the Tannhauser hit the water it started to evaporate and then ignited the massive amount of hydrogen that was created. In essence a giant hydrogen bomb went off...

Oh my god, give me a fucking break. This is the biggest crock of anime-nerd bullshit I've read in my life. Whoever thought of that stupid, STUPID theory needs to get his/her face beaten in with a brick.

[mimidood]

Hey guys I am new to this but I found some interesting information.
http://final.exteen.com/
It is spoilers on the next 5 espisodes

[Millenium-Boyz]

Originally posted by: mimidood
Hey guys I am new to this but I found some interesting information.
http://final.exteen.com/
It is spoilers on the next 5 espisodes

Sorry mimidood but i think this is not a spoiler thread, and also your post have no relation at all to episode 34
but thanks a lot anyway im so happy to see the spoiler and i cant wait till episode 37 as i am a big fans of Kira and ZGMF-X20A, and are you sure that this spoiler is 100% accurate, because i have read other spoilers that said different things

[Dannynonsense]

Originally posted by: mimidood
Hey guys I am new to this but I found some interesting information.
http://final.exteen.com/
It is spoilers on the next 5 espisodes

these spoilers conflict with another set of spoilers also they really do seem fake real fake but thats just my opinion

[LokeXero]

Originally posted by: Dannynonsense

Originally posted by: mimidood
Hey guys I am new to this but I found some interesting information.
http://final.exteen.com/
It is spoilers on the next 5 espisodes

these spoilers conflict with another set of spoilers also they really do seem fake real fake but thats just my opinion

I second that motion, they do sound like an opinion and not truth...

[Jurojin]

@DDBen

Ok, crack-brained theories you've shared...
"Neo/Mwu pilot's Freedom to its destruction, and dies with it. (If the pilot had to die)"

Like it's been said before, there is NO plausible reason to let Neo/Mwu pilot Freedom at this time. Maybe later in the series, IF he gets his memories back, that could be a possibility, he takes a spare MS in AA's hanger and saved the day. But right now, even if he had gone "I remember everything!" it's too soon for them to trust him enough to give him the keys to one of the most powerful Gundams in existence. You HAVE to admit that the AA's crew is NOT stupid enough to just go "He looks and acts like Mwu, and he says he remembers everything. We'll just forget everything he's done for the EAF, and while we're at it, let him pilot Freedom to defend us, even though Kira is the superior pilot, and we'll just flat out ignore the possibility that he could be faking remembering just to escape." Theory debunked.


"Kira let Shinn beat him to let the AA escape, faking his own destruction."

I'm going to say it only this once- PLEASE for the love of whatever deities are out there, stop god-modding Kira. He's uber enough as he is, even if he can be beaten by Shinn once. To start tossing in crap like "They planned to fake his death in a split second" is only an attempt to rationalize that Shinn can't possibly beat Kira honestly, and it takes more and more away from Kira being human- yes, he's the UC, but that doesn't mean he's infallible. He can be beaten, he has been beaten, and for all of his strengths, he's only human.


"Shinn gave Stellar to Neo to pass the buck and not feel responsible. He could have come along and stolen the tech needed to keep Stellar alive."

>_< God I hate this one. Yes Shinn is an ass, I won't deny it- but now you're calling him a coward, and for some reason you want to think that he has the technical know-how to know what is needed to keep Stellar alive, when people with more medical training who were given access to the lab's database couldn't do anything for her. That's not even realistic, now it's like you're trying to god-mod Shinn to show that he's just trying to sluff off the responsibility. I.e. say he's capable of more than he really is so you can try to legitably say "Shinn's just trying to get out of feeling responsible for Stellar."




Anyone (other than DDBen) think I'm off base for saying that these aren't even remote possibilities?

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
Anyone (other than DDBen) think I'm off base for saying that these aren't even remote possibilities?

Hell no. I was just gonna type up the whole list of insane Ben theories myself, but you beat me to it.

I agree with every word. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
@DDBen

Ok, crack-brained theories you've shared...
"Neo/Mwu pilot's Freedom to its destruction, and dies with it. (If the pilot had to die)"

Like it's been said before, there is NO plausible reason to let Neo/Mwu pilot Freedom at this time. Maybe later in the series, IF he gets his memories back, that could be a possibility, he takes a spare MS in AA's hanger and saved the day. But right now, even if he had gone "I remember everything!" it's too soon for them to trust him enough to give him the keys to one of the most powerful Gundams in existence. You HAVE to admit that the AA's crew is NOT stupid enough to just go "He looks and acts like Mwu, and he says he remembers everything. We'll just forget everything he's done for the EAF, and while we're at it, let him pilot Freedom to defend us, even though Kira is the superior pilot, and we'll just flat out ignore the possibility that he could be faking remembering just to escape." Theory debunked.

First off this theory had a very simple requirement. That requirement was if in episode 34 Freedom was destroyed and the pilot was killed. If for whatever reason Mwu regained his memories and someone had to die he was simply the only truely expendable character. He's a EA officer so its not like they would let him surrender or escape and Shinn would certainly have a lot more reason to kill him. Also please note when the first half of the battles in this episode were simply removed this was no longer a possibility so your arguing a absolutely dead point here.

Originally posted by: Jurojin
"Kira let Shinn beat him to let the AA escape, faking his own destruction."

I'm going to say it only this once- PLEASE for the love of whatever deities are out there, stop god-modding Kira. He's uber enough as he is, even if he can be beaten by Shinn once. To start tossing in crap like "They planned to fake his death in a split second" is only an attempt to rationalize that Shinn can't possibly beat Kira honestly, and it takes more and more away from Kira being human- yes, he's the UC, but that doesn't mean he's infallible. He can be beaten, he has been beaten, and for all of his strengths, he's only human.

You are misquoting this entirely. I stated that Shinn got in some hits on freedom the most relevant being destroying the wing. However, That when Shinn stabbed Freedom Kira diverted the blade to a nonvital location and used the chance of Impulse being at extremely close range and unable to dodge to take out the sensors on Impulse (namely chopping off the head and arm which is clearly shown). This final movement was made by Kira expressly to escape withough giving Zaft what they wanted.

Originally posted by: Jurojin
"Shinn gave Stellar to Neo to pass the buck and not feel responsible. He could have come along and stolen the tech needed to keep Stellar alive."

>_< God I hate this one. Yes Shinn is an ass, I won't deny it- but now you're calling him a coward, and for some reason you want to think that he has the technical know-how to know what is needed to keep Stellar alive, when people with more medical training who were given access to the lab's database couldn't do anything for her. That's not even realistic, now it's like you're trying to god-mod Shinn to show that he's just trying to sluff off the responsibility. I.e. say he's capable of more than he really is so you can try to legitably say "Shinn's just trying to get out of feeling responsible for Stellar."

This is a fact not a theory unless of course you can show me any part where Shinn blames himself or Neo for what Stellar was doing with Destroy. Shinn has never once blamed himself for any of his own actions in the entire series. The only argueable exception to this is when his famil initially got killed and the joke is thats the only time he didn't actually cause the problem in the first place.

I don't believe a single one of these is either insane or out of character for ANY of those in GSD and I fully stand by them. Note the first was a scenario that involved several things happening that never took place and thus the scenario had no place. They rushed the battle between Impulse and Freedom to the point that this episode lacked atleast 15 minutes of the battle that would have taken place before Minerva managed to show up.

[Jurojin]

No, it's not a dead point, the point is that you made up something that had only ONE thing going for it, Neo/Mwu's expendability, which I don't disagree with you on- but the rest of the variables which should be utter common sense to you should tell you that there's not a point in bringing it up- there is NO possible way that Neo/Mwu could have gotten into Freedom in ANY scenario, and your stubbornness to admit that is appalling.

You're God-modding Kira again. As a pilot, I'm sure he could have done enough of a deflection to not get himself killed- but the notion he did it for anything other than self-preservation is ludicrous! How the heck can you honestly say this was going on in his mind: "Well, I can't avoid this attack, but I can disable Impulse to where they can't see what happens to me, and I'll be able to get away with the AA." Shinn gave Kira little time to do much of anything but react, especially with Kira's attention split b/w the AA getting shot up, and Impulse going at him full fury.

Beginning of episode 33, before the OC, Shinn puts Stellar's body into the lake. He cries for the loss, and he also, while crying, apologizes to Stellar for not protecting her, for not keeping her safe. THERE. PROOF that he does at least feel partly responsible.

[DDBen]

The first one remains a dead issue and I'm not wasting my time arguing over something that isn't going to take place considering what happened.

Originally posted by: Jurojin
You're God-modding Kira again. As a pilot, I'm sure he could have done enough of a deflection to not get himself killed- but the notion he did it for anything other than self-preservation is ludicrous! How the heck can you honestly say this was going on in his mind: "Well, I can't avoid this attack, but I can disable Impulse to where they can't see what happens to me, and I'll be able to get away with the AA." Shinn gave Kira little time to do much of anything but react, especially with Kira's attention split b/w the AA getting shot up, and Impulse going at him full fury.

Think about this rationally instead of simply sitting here humping a Shinn doll. Kira would know weather or not such a sword would pierce freedom. For the simple reason that Sword Strike used a similar weapon. So why would he block with a shield if he knew it was futile.. Why would he aim for the head of Impulse instead of the sword (in order to deflect it from piercing the shield and why would he take the sword into the gut of freedom for absolutely no reason. I'm sorry but considering Kira's skills shown throught both series there is absolutely no reason he couldn't have dodged the sword or the previous boomarang. He was not fighting back on purpose and if you've seen the Sub you should certainly know that one by now. So as soon as you can give me a answer as to how Freedom could escape without using ANY strategy at all in the battle and I'll be happy to concede that Kira is a bumbling idiot who has simply gotten by on his good looks and never shown a ounce of skill.

Originally posted by: Jurojin
Beginning of episode 33, before the OC, Shinn puts Stellar's body into the lake. He cries for the loss, and he also, while crying, apologizes to Stellar for not protecting her, for not keeping her safe. THERE. PROOF that he does at least feel partly responsible.

He did indeed responsible for not protecting her from KIRA. This is differn't from simply not protecting her. At this point he felt Neo was dead and that Kira was responsable for killing Stellar. This is very differn't from Shinn feeling bad about him returning her to the EA, blaming Neo for forcing her to fight again or blaming Stellar for having just killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of people. His actions and so called remorse was just him reasoning how to blame someone else for what happened and not take any responsability for it. If you can seriously tell me that Destroy didn't need to go then your simply insane. The fact remains Kira took out destroy without taking out the cockpit in the process. This means the only possibility of how stellar died lies in the hole that Shinn himself cut in the cockpit meaning the only reason she died were Shinns actions and not Kira's which he has absolutely not taken resonsability for.