Episode 34 (may contain SPOILERS)

[Jurojin]

@DDBen

Ok, crack-brained theories you've shared...
"Neo/Mwu pilot's Freedom to its destruction, and dies with it. (If the pilot had to die)"

Like it's been said before, there is NO plausible reason to let Neo/Mwu pilot Freedom at this time. Maybe later in the series, IF he gets his memories back, that could be a possibility, he takes a spare MS in AA's hanger and saved the day. But right now, even if he had gone "I remember everything!" it's too soon for them to trust him enough to give him the keys to one of the most powerful Gundams in existence. You HAVE to admit that the AA's crew is NOT stupid enough to just go "He looks and acts like Mwu, and he says he remembers everything. We'll just forget everything he's done for the EAF, and while we're at it, let him pilot Freedom to defend us, even though Kira is the superior pilot, and we'll just flat out ignore the possibility that he could be faking remembering just to escape." Theory debunked.


"Kira let Shinn beat him to let the AA escape, faking his own destruction."

I'm going to say it only this once- PLEASE for the love of whatever deities are out there, stop god-modding Kira. He's uber enough as he is, even if he can be beaten by Shinn once. To start tossing in crap like "They planned to fake his death in a split second" is only an attempt to rationalize that Shinn can't possibly beat Kira honestly, and it takes more and more away from Kira being human- yes, he's the UC, but that doesn't mean he's infallible. He can be beaten, he has been beaten, and for all of his strengths, he's only human.


"Shinn gave Stellar to Neo to pass the buck and not feel responsible. He could have come along and stolen the tech needed to keep Stellar alive."

>_< God I hate this one. Yes Shinn is an ass, I won't deny it- but now you're calling him a coward, and for some reason you want to think that he has the technical know-how to know what is needed to keep Stellar alive, when people with more medical training who were given access to the lab's database couldn't do anything for her. That's not even realistic, now it's like you're trying to god-mod Shinn to show that he's just trying to sluff off the responsibility. I.e. say he's capable of more than he really is so you can try to legitably say "Shinn's just trying to get out of feeling responsible for Stellar."




Anyone (other than DDBen) think I'm off base for saying that these aren't even remote possibilities?

[Terracosmo]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
Anyone (other than DDBen) think I'm off base for saying that these aren't even remote possibilities?

Hell no. I was just gonna type up the whole list of insane Ben theories myself, but you beat me to it.

I agree with every word. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
@DDBen

Ok, crack-brained theories you've shared...
"Neo/Mwu pilot's Freedom to its destruction, and dies with it. (If the pilot had to die)"

Like it's been said before, there is NO plausible reason to let Neo/Mwu pilot Freedom at this time. Maybe later in the series, IF he gets his memories back, that could be a possibility, he takes a spare MS in AA's hanger and saved the day. But right now, even if he had gone "I remember everything!" it's too soon for them to trust him enough to give him the keys to one of the most powerful Gundams in existence. You HAVE to admit that the AA's crew is NOT stupid enough to just go "He looks and acts like Mwu, and he says he remembers everything. We'll just forget everything he's done for the EAF, and while we're at it, let him pilot Freedom to defend us, even though Kira is the superior pilot, and we'll just flat out ignore the possibility that he could be faking remembering just to escape." Theory debunked.

First off this theory had a very simple requirement. That requirement was if in episode 34 Freedom was destroyed and the pilot was killed. If for whatever reason Mwu regained his memories and someone had to die he was simply the only truely expendable character. He's a EA officer so its not like they would let him surrender or escape and Shinn would certainly have a lot more reason to kill him. Also please note when the first half of the battles in this episode were simply removed this was no longer a possibility so your arguing a absolutely dead point here.

Originally posted by: Jurojin
"Kira let Shinn beat him to let the AA escape, faking his own destruction."

I'm going to say it only this once- PLEASE for the love of whatever deities are out there, stop god-modding Kira. He's uber enough as he is, even if he can be beaten by Shinn once. To start tossing in crap like "They planned to fake his death in a split second" is only an attempt to rationalize that Shinn can't possibly beat Kira honestly, and it takes more and more away from Kira being human- yes, he's the UC, but that doesn't mean he's infallible. He can be beaten, he has been beaten, and for all of his strengths, he's only human.

You are misquoting this entirely. I stated that Shinn got in some hits on freedom the most relevant being destroying the wing. However, That when Shinn stabbed Freedom Kira diverted the blade to a nonvital location and used the chance of Impulse being at extremely close range and unable to dodge to take out the sensors on Impulse (namely chopping off the head and arm which is clearly shown). This final movement was made by Kira expressly to escape withough giving Zaft what they wanted.

Originally posted by: Jurojin
"Shinn gave Stellar to Neo to pass the buck and not feel responsible. He could have come along and stolen the tech needed to keep Stellar alive."

>_< God I hate this one. Yes Shinn is an ass, I won't deny it- but now you're calling him a coward, and for some reason you want to think that he has the technical know-how to know what is needed to keep Stellar alive, when people with more medical training who were given access to the lab's database couldn't do anything for her. That's not even realistic, now it's like you're trying to god-mod Shinn to show that he's just trying to sluff off the responsibility. I.e. say he's capable of more than he really is so you can try to legitably say "Shinn's just trying to get out of feeling responsible for Stellar."

This is a fact not a theory unless of course you can show me any part where Shinn blames himself or Neo for what Stellar was doing with Destroy. Shinn has never once blamed himself for any of his own actions in the entire series. The only argueable exception to this is when his famil initially got killed and the joke is thats the only time he didn't actually cause the problem in the first place.

I don't believe a single one of these is either insane or out of character for ANY of those in GSD and I fully stand by them. Note the first was a scenario that involved several things happening that never took place and thus the scenario had no place. They rushed the battle between Impulse and Freedom to the point that this episode lacked atleast 15 minutes of the battle that would have taken place before Minerva managed to show up.

[Jurojin]

No, it's not a dead point, the point is that you made up something that had only ONE thing going for it, Neo/Mwu's expendability, which I don't disagree with you on- but the rest of the variables which should be utter common sense to you should tell you that there's not a point in bringing it up- there is NO possible way that Neo/Mwu could have gotten into Freedom in ANY scenario, and your stubbornness to admit that is appalling.

You're God-modding Kira again. As a pilot, I'm sure he could have done enough of a deflection to not get himself killed- but the notion he did it for anything other than self-preservation is ludicrous! How the heck can you honestly say this was going on in his mind: "Well, I can't avoid this attack, but I can disable Impulse to where they can't see what happens to me, and I'll be able to get away with the AA." Shinn gave Kira little time to do much of anything but react, especially with Kira's attention split b/w the AA getting shot up, and Impulse going at him full fury.

Beginning of episode 33, before the OC, Shinn puts Stellar's body into the lake. He cries for the loss, and he also, while crying, apologizes to Stellar for not protecting her, for not keeping her safe. THERE. PROOF that he does at least feel partly responsible.

[DDBen]

The first one remains a dead issue and I'm not wasting my time arguing over something that isn't going to take place considering what happened.

Originally posted by: Jurojin
You're God-modding Kira again. As a pilot, I'm sure he could have done enough of a deflection to not get himself killed- but the notion he did it for anything other than self-preservation is ludicrous! How the heck can you honestly say this was going on in his mind: "Well, I can't avoid this attack, but I can disable Impulse to where they can't see what happens to me, and I'll be able to get away with the AA." Shinn gave Kira little time to do much of anything but react, especially with Kira's attention split b/w the AA getting shot up, and Impulse going at him full fury.

Think about this rationally instead of simply sitting here humping a Shinn doll. Kira would know weather or not such a sword would pierce freedom. For the simple reason that Sword Strike used a similar weapon. So why would he block with a shield if he knew it was futile.. Why would he aim for the head of Impulse instead of the sword (in order to deflect it from piercing the shield and why would he take the sword into the gut of freedom for absolutely no reason. I'm sorry but considering Kira's skills shown throught both series there is absolutely no reason he couldn't have dodged the sword or the previous boomarang. He was not fighting back on purpose and if you've seen the Sub you should certainly know that one by now. So as soon as you can give me a answer as to how Freedom could escape without using ANY strategy at all in the battle and I'll be happy to concede that Kira is a bumbling idiot who has simply gotten by on his good looks and never shown a ounce of skill.

Originally posted by: Jurojin
Beginning of episode 33, before the OC, Shinn puts Stellar's body into the lake. He cries for the loss, and he also, while crying, apologizes to Stellar for not protecting her, for not keeping her safe. THERE. PROOF that he does at least feel partly responsible.

He did indeed responsible for not protecting her from KIRA. This is differn't from simply not protecting her. At this point he felt Neo was dead and that Kira was responsable for killing Stellar. This is very differn't from Shinn feeling bad about him returning her to the EA, blaming Neo for forcing her to fight again or blaming Stellar for having just killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of people. His actions and so called remorse was just him reasoning how to blame someone else for what happened and not take any responsability for it. If you can seriously tell me that Destroy didn't need to go then your simply insane. The fact remains Kira took out destroy without taking out the cockpit in the process. This means the only possibility of how stellar died lies in the hole that Shinn himself cut in the cockpit meaning the only reason she died were Shinns actions and not Kira's which he has absolutely not taken resonsability for.

[Jurojin]

Screw it, you're not worth my time. I've already told you why Kira couldn't dodge, you're forfeiting on the first point because you know you can't win, and I'll leave you to your Shinn-burning and your wet dreams with Kira-kun.


Anyways:

Will Gladys get in trouble with Dullindal for giving AA a chance to escape? The orders, at least from the ZAFT ground commander, seemed to be "Sink the AA." Since it seems pretty clear that her attempt at diplomacy is what let the AA hit the water, Any repercussions? Or will her FAITH status exempt her from even the Chairman's wrath? Or will he even get angry, instead just going "Eh, it's ok- now give me some sugar." @ Gladys?

[Curium]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
Screw it, you're not worth my time. I've already told you why Kira couldn't dodge

Dodging would have been easy. All he had to do was turn Freedom off and let Gravity do the work.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: thejamppa
Kira survived Nuclear explosion when Athrun self detonated Aegis in SEED, this situation is similar.

just to be a smartass - Aegis couldn't ever produce a nuclear explosion unless it shot a nuclear missile
which at that point of the story wasn't possible cause the Neutron Jammer Canceller would only be on blueprints
and not yet build

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: Jurojin
Screw it, you're not worth my time. I've already told you why Kira couldn't dodge

Dodging would have been easy. All he had to do was turn Freedom off and let Gravity do the work.

i disagree
i interpreted the events as such: Tannhauser was fired, Shinn gets his sword, Kira looks at the Tannhauser beam approaching ArchAngel, Shinn charges in, Kira looks back at Impulse only to see it speeding towards him

now let's say Kira turned the thrusters off at that point, even then i highly doubt it would've been in time to let Freedom drop totally out of range of Shinn's charge
i think that if he would've turned it off things would've been more disastrous as Freedom would've been struck higher and thus closer to the cockpit

but that's just my interpretation of things

[Digitalgirl]

Your Neo/Mwu theory that he will pilot Freedom was wishful thinking.
Shinn gave Stellar back to EAF because he could do nothing to help her, and she was dieing. He gave her back because he was not a scientist, did not have the necessary equipment to help her, and he wanted her to live because he loved her [or at least had a strong crush on her]. I don't think Shinn would go through all this trouble just "to pass the buck and not feel responsible" if it could mean getting killed himself by disobeying orders.