Episode 34 (may contain SPOILERS)

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.

Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.

Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.

Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.

War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.

Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.


>>>>I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.<<<<

Not done anything wrong? His smile after defeating Freedom shows that what he does is wrong, not by orders, but because he does it for the wrong reasons... If it would have been Athrun he would have done it reluctlantly but still follow his orders, he would not grin and go out to battle just waiting to kill someone... And when Shinn has been jumping from ship to ship killing of EAF and ORB forces that were pulling back. "Hell yeah", that is the correct actions to take. Following orders and following orders isn't the same thing when one does it with a smile on his face and the other with pain.

Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.

okay saying that shinn follows orders is wrong cause he doesnt. he follows himself and no one else. did he follow orders when he took stellar back to neo? he is disrespecful to superiors and acts as if he is the bigshot on the minerva. the only reason he fought freedom was to avenge stellar for his own personal gain.

i would like to end this with im not saying this because i dislike shinn which i do. i say it because its like that, he does as he pleases and follows the orders he wants to follow.

[Shinji Ikari]

I'd have to bow to that.... You are totally correct... SO I'd have to change what I said to following orders to go out to the battle field.

[Jurojin]

Yeah, everyone has his own etics and reactions, but after that? One has to take control of his life to realize that his behaviour up til that point has been wrong

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

Wow, you just have a one track mind, don't you. You admit you're wrong, but then stick with the same unreasonable line.


Ok, I'll be Shinn's advocate for a moment: "I am a soldier for ZAFT. My job is to stop the enemy, whomever it may be at the time."

That right there justifies, to himself at least, every life taken in combat, as well as his attempt to kill Kira.

on a more personal level "My family was killed in part due to war and the government's choice to make our country hostile ground, which is a result of their attempts to do nothing towards one side or the other at war. the EAF has tortured and scarred Stellar with their experiments, and was later killed by Freedom. (in his mind, though the details of her death are debated here). I must destroy the EAF/LOGOS for their atrocites, and Freedom for being reponsible for the death of my friends."

There, so far most of what he's done has been rationalized and justified IN HIS MIND.

I dare you to come up with a reason that someone with that mindset should "Suddenly realize what he's been doing is wrong" that does not include your own sense of right and wrong forced on him. In the situation that he's in, with the experiances that he's had, with the mindset I've described, there is absolutly no reason he should change his stance or ways that doesn't include "Well, he's wrong in my mind and in what I see to be the grand scheme of things."

[heero]

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Originally posted by: Jurojin

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari


Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.

I never said anything about "by law." Try looking past your own face and see the reality of the situation. Baka.


*breathe* I was not saying his actions are right and just. I never did. What I WAS saying, and people seem to stupidly ignore this whenever the topic comes up, is that NOBODY is bound by the same code of ethics, the same sense of right and wrong, as other people. Just because you think it's wrong of him to do the things he does, doesn't mean he has to think that way. In his mind, he feels he's doing the right thing: fighting LOGOS and the people responsible for the pain Stellar had through her life (experimentation crap), fighting the one he sees as responsible for the death of his comrades and loved ones (right or not).

No, everyone does NOT have to be rational. It would be nice, it would make the world a better place, but nobody HAS to do it. You're showing your naivety, and your Kira-loving and pro-Shinn-bashing, by taking this stance.

Yeah, everyone has his own etics and reactions, but after that? One has to take control of his life to realize that his behaviour up til that point has been wrong.

>>>No one gives him or AA the right
That depends on your def. of "right". What gives Zaft and the EAF the "right" to go to war and to kill each other?<<<

No, they gave themselves the right to interfere because they know that what they are doing is to help end the war, it doesn't really help that EAF and ZAFt is throwing in more guns in the fire to make it pop even louder. Dullindal claims to be fighting for justice, Logos also claims to fight for justice... So why is everyone fighting? This is stupid... The only reason AA started fighting was because Zaft and EAF started fighting, thus, AA can't be wrong because they aren't taking sides but fighting for both... Kira has saved countless by shooting a lot of MS down and he has also saved the Minerva, Orb military... He saves lives that EAF and ZAFT is destroying...

No one gave him the right or told him this is what you need to do. He and AA tries to save everyone withour trying to gain anything from this war whilst both EAF and ZAFT leaders are trying to gain something.. The ones who does something without thinking of themselves must be the ones that are correct when trying to save something. Because they all claim that is what they want.

Originally posted by: heero

Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.

Why is it weak?

And that exactly what is so wrong with Shinn, he is mad, he is insane and needs help. Which one would you rather have, a person who just loves to shoot people or the one who does it because he is told to?

My argument is not weak because it is based upon how actions and war are born... With people like Shinn, war could never end and with people like Kira war is fought for everyone to end with the smallest amount of damage... That is where the difference in following an order with a smile and with a sad face changes so much.

Like you said, Shinn needs help. And what does he get? More and more of his loved ones died. So how can he be the one to blame and how can he be hated. And of course Kira is the ideal personality and can even be compared to God but that kind of thing dont happen in real life. You wont see a person running out in the middle of a war between to countries and tries to stop them because why? That person will end up dead. Kira is acting like he is because the story is suppose to make him like a hero and save the day. While Shinn is more a typical realistic person. If someone goes and kills your whole family, you would want to take revenge on that person too rather than being mister nice guy and tells him to go home and not do it again.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Jurojin

A) He HAD to give Stellar to Neo, or she would have died, plain and simple. I know it sucks, but Shinn could either give her to Neo and hope beyond reason that Neo didn't get her killed, or just watch helplessly as a loved one died right next to him. Again. Unless you're thinking that ZAFT would miraculously come up with a way to treat her with limited specialty equipment an a war vessel.

I've said this before if he had any intention of trying to save her he would have done 1 of 2 things. Either Shinn would have surrendered with Stellar or he would have attempted to steal what he needed to keep her alive and ran off somewhere to be with just her. As instead he turned her over to Neo and ran back to the Minerva its my feeling Shinn abandoned her instead of protecting her and in turn gave him a reason to blame someone else if something happened to her.

Originally posted by: Jurojin
B) He was still trying to calm Stellar down. He was focused on her and her mental state, not on what Freedom was doing. If Freedom was not in Stellar's line of vision, she would not have fired her cannons, and Freedom wouldn't have needed to disable Destroy to save Shinn. I'm not saying it's Freedom's fault exactly, as Kira didn't know exactly who and what was going on, but saying that it in any way Shinn's fault is pure fiction. He had her calmed down. She had stopped firing, because of Shinn, and if given some more time, he prolly could have coaxed her out.

Indeed upon learning it was Stellar Shinn attempted to calm her down but only after Kira shot down Neo did it matter. Had Neo not been shot down then Stellar wouldn't have stopped for Shinn and instead if Shinn tried saying anything Neo would have told Stellar that Shinn was bad and trying to kill Stellar. In every case Stellar had chosen Neo over Shinn.

I would also like to say that PSJ definatly has stated the facts earlier on this page about Shinn I have no reason to quote this.

[Jurojin]

or he would have attempted to steal what he needed to keep her alive and ran off somewhere to be with just her

Somehow, I don't think Shinn would be able to determine what was needed to keep her alive. He's not a medical expert, and the ships doctor didn't even have the tech or knowledge to keep Stellar alive. So can we say that this one is a slim and extremely unlikely choice?

[heero]

And surrendering to your enemy is not exactly an ideal choice. You should see what they do to enemy soldiers when they are captured in wars...

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Jurojin

or he would have attempted to steal what he needed to keep her alive and ran off somewhere to be with just her

Somehow, I don't think Shinn would be able to determine what was needed to keep her alive. He's not a medical expert, and the ships doctor didn't even have the tech or knowledge to keep Stellar alive. So can we say that this one is a slim and extremely unlikely choice?

Originally posted by: heero
And surrendering to your enemy is not exactly an ideal choice. You should see what they do to enemy soldiers when they are captured in wars...

Both of these are unlikely to work the fact is they are more likely then Neo sending his Ace off to work on a bunny farm. The point is his actions were not those of someone trying to protect something but instead those of someone attempting to pass the buck so he doesn't have to take responsability. I would say that having Steller kill tens of thousands of people with destroy was clearly a much better option then doing anything that could instead endanger your own life.

[Dannynonsense]

most of you guys talking right now are real idiots i mean seriously at this point of the story do you think shinn is the same when GSD first started all that crap he was saying its out the window he has no remorse for his actions blaming everyone else for things that are his fault. you guys are in love with the character too much you talk as if all the things that shinn is doing is right and everthing the AA is doing is wrong, everyone from eaf to zaft in the story is saying there fighting to protect themselves wrong there being manipulated by people who are causing wars for their own gain. so why is what the AA is DOING WRONG. one more thing for those of you who think shinn now wholes supremacy in the GSD shinn lovers just shut up okay clearly that fight BS accept shinn is just a madman whose gonna die

[FelixZeroAlastor]

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: Jurojin

or he would have attempted to steal what he needed to keep her alive and ran off somewhere to be with just her

Somehow, I don't think Shinn would be able to determine what was needed to keep her alive. He's not a medical expert, and the ships doctor didn't even have the tech or knowledge to keep Stellar alive. So can we say that this one is a slim and extremely unlikely choice?

Originally posted by: heero
And surrendering to your enemy is not exactly an ideal choice. You should see what they do to enemy soldiers when they are captured in wars...

Both of these are unlikely to work the fact is they are more likely then Neo sending his Ace off to work on a bunny farm. The point is his actions were not those of someone trying to protect something but instead those of someone attempting to pass the buck so he doesn't have to take responsability. I would say that having Steller kill tens of thousands of people with destroy was clearly a much better option then doing anything that could instead endanger your own life.

All right I am sorry but please spare me. He was indeed trying to protect Stellar when he gave her to Neo. At the moment it was a better option than watching her suffer until she gets disected alive or dies on the bed all scared and crying. I don't know about you but I would have done the same thing. He wasn't trying to dodge responsibility. He was doing the only thing that he could do to possibly save her. He couldn't have possibly known that Neo was going to have her slaughter three cities full of innocent people with the Destroy. If you love someone are you just going to let them suffer and be disected when you promised to protect them or are you going to give them back to the only person who could possibly save them. I would choose the second one cause it is what the average sane person would do. If I was Shinn I would probably want revenge on Kira too. Even tough Stellar deserves no kind of forgiveness whatsoever from anyone Shinn loved her and she loved him and love makes you do stupid things. Example: While Kira was fighting Rau he flew straight for Fllay completely ignoring the most dangerous suit on the field at the moment. I 'm not saying this cause I like Shinn just so you know.

[Jurojin]

Yeah, thread's getting pointless now, with both sides being close-minded on the issues at hand.


*places brick wall b/w two sides to watch them bash their heads against it*


There we go, that looks about right....

[xat]

Interesting how people go about defining what the "typical person" would be like. You can't justify a common mentality so simply. I'd say that pre-GSD, Kira was about as human as... well, myself for one. You're given two points of views, one person may handle the same situation differently, but it doesn't make them ... for lack of better word, atypical. I'm not sure what kind of normal society (this can vary in itself) some live in, but typical nature can be derived from the kind of atmosphere someone is brought up in.

Dare I say, Kira is just as guilty of playing the berserker role as Shinn pre-GSD. When Tolle was killed, Kira's (and even Athrun's) mentality mirrored Shinn's own: kill the enemy for satisfaction. The difference now is that you have someone who has had time to reflect on such cases; I believe Kira strikes a point of wisdom inbetween GS and GSD, whereas Shinn has yet to even stride for any such pinnacle (or realize that he may have to for that matter).

As for who is the better pilot, I certainly don't doubt Shinn's skill. He's probably hit the apex of his performance, although I'm quite interested in how he'd compare to Athrun. Athrun? Yea, well we've already seen that he's about as capable as the benchmark; when he and Kira go at it, they're in a state of brinkmanship and in one instance hit stalemate, which is rather scary. Kira still seems to be the only one who could, uh, pop his seed (eheh) at will, under little pressure and such. The others will pop under pressure or out of extreme emotional cycling. Kira was wrecked in this episode, but I don't believe it justifies the overall level of skill. Perhaps this time Shinn may have been better due to his exploiting Kira's weakness--though it is one that Kira could probably override easily; the desire not to kill costs him pretty badly. Kira factors out enormous target vs. several segmented subsystems for the sake of his opponents and his conscience. We've already seen that he'll still make exceptions in certain situations though (saving Shinn vs. allowing Stellar's rampage to continue)... I think Kira is exceedingly better, although he did get pummeled due to his weakness.

I wouldn't mind seeing Cagalli go at it again, wasn't she able to berserk during the last episodes of GS? A yellow seed? They didn't show enough of that ;-;!

On a lighter note I really like Haro^2 & Tori^2 :-)



^ [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]~~~~~

[MeroTZ]

Originally posted by: xat
Interesting how people go about defining what the "typical person" would be like. You can't justify a common mentality so simply. I'd say that pre-GSD, Kira was about as human as... well, myself for one. You're given two points of views, one person may handle the same situation differently, but it doesn't make them ... for lack of better word, atypical. I'm not sure what kind of normal society (this can vary in itself) some live in, but typical nature can be derived from the kind of atmosphere someone is brought up in.

Dare I say, Kira is just as guilty of playing the berserker role as Shinn pre-GSD. When Tolle was killed, Kira's (and even Athrun's) mentality mirrored Shinn's own: kill the enemy for satisfaction. The difference now is that you have someone who has had time to reflect on such cases; I believe Kira strikes a point of wisdom inbetween GS and GSD, whereas Shinn has yet to even stride for any such pinnacle (or realize that he may have to for that matter).

As for who is the better pilot, I certainly don't doubt Shinn's skill. He's probably hit the apex of his performance, although I'm quite interested in how he'd compare to Athrun. Athrun? Yea, well we've already seen that he's about as capable as the benchmark; when he and Kira go at it, they're in a state of brinkmanship and in one instance hit stalemate, which is rather scary. Kira still seems to be the only one who could, uh, pop his seed (eheh) at will, under little pressure and such. The others will pop under pressure or out of extreme emotional cycling. Kira was wrecked in this episode, but I don't believe it justifies the overall level of skill. Perhaps this time Shinn may have been better due to his exploiting Kira's weakness--though it is one that Kira could probably override easily; the desire not to kill costs him pretty badly. Kira factors out enormous target vs. several segmented subsystems for the sake of his opponents and his conscience. We've already seen that he'll still make exceptions in certain situations though (saving Shinn vs. allowing Stellar's rampage to continue)... I think Kira is exceedingly better, although he did get pummeled due to his weakness.

I wouldn't mind seeing Cagalli go at it again, wasn't she able to berserk during the last episodes of GS? A yellow seed? They didn't show enough of that ;-;!

On a lighter note I really like Haro^2 & Tori^2 :-)



^ [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]~~~~~

The key difference with Kira playing the berserker was that he felt bad about it. It was something he didn't like about himself, and this allowed him to change. He has already grown past revenge 5 episodes after the Athrun fight, when he has the opportunity to kill Yzak and flashes back to Yzak's killing of a shuttle load of innocents (this damned Yzak in my mind. Saving Cagali helps... a little). At that point, just a little while later, Kira has made his choice not to kill if he doesn't have to (remember, he didn't hesitate to kill Rau. He probably wont if he gets another chance at Shin, too).

Shinn has shown no such developement, at all, in this series. However, I do think he's a great character. I just dont like him and hope he dies.

And I thought cagali had a red SEED? Was it yellow?

[telemari]

SEED color is based on eyes color, so Cagalli has yellow (or kinda brown) SEED.

[FelixZeroAlastor]

I am pretty sure that Athrun can open his seed at will just like Kira. Just noone has given him reason enough to do it yet. Cagalli... I'm not sure about her. One thing is for sure though. When those seeds open then they better come with a serious can of ass whooping for whoever they are opening them for cause they need to make up for not doing it these past 34 episiodes. Man how I still wish Cagalli went seed on Shinn when he decided to butcher the orb ships. Would've been interesting but didn't happen... oh well.

[antoine]

They're mixing up seed colors for some reason because last time I saw Kira going into seed mode Athrun's green seed was shown.

[Motteh]

first of all i want to point out i like both Shinn and Kira as characters and no i won't pick a favourite..

Freedom got wrecked that much is certain, lots of debris floating in the ocean as you can see in the ending shots
although reality and common sense state that Kira can't possibly be alive we also have seen him survive a similar
scene back in GS (Athrun/Kira fight where Athrun self destructed), that plus the fact there's info about a new and improved Freedom i think we haven't seen the last of Kira

from the flashes of the coming episodes i assume that the Destiny Gundam will finally make it's appearance
so Shinn will get Destiny, Impulse is passed on the whomever, i don't care to much about that
concluding from episodes 33 and 34 it looks like Athrun got some sense knocked back into him
Gladys' statements and Kira's presumed death should have created a shock big enough for him to come back to reality and be the skilled pilot he obviously was back in GS

to conclude, i'm happy for Shinn and hope he finds some piece in his heart now, the boy really needs it
Rey needs to stop fuelling Shinn's rage (yes yes he fuels it just listen to what he says to Shinn all the time)
and Kira will most likely be back with a brand new suit, and i'm very anxious to see Shinn's reaction when and if he recognizes the pilot and suit he'll be fighting once more (well most likely be fighting once more)

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
I am pretty sure that Athrun can open his seed at will just like Kira. Just noone has given him reason enough to do it yet. Cagalli... I'm not sure about her. One thing is for sure though. When those seeds open then they better come with a serious can of ass whooping for whoever they are opening them for cause they need to make up for not doing it these past 34 episiodes. Man how I still wish Cagalli went seed on Shinn when he decided to butcher the orb ships. Would've been interesting but didn't happen... oh well.

to be honest, and this is not just a Shinn fanboy comment, Shinn would've whooped Cagalli's ass if it was one on one, because i really think that you can't compare Shinn and Cagalli as mobile suit pilots
it's true that Cagalli fought at Yakin Due (sp??) and killed some folks and even went Seed there
but based on actual fighting experience you have to admit that Shinn has the advantage over Cagalli
but ofcourse we saw in this episode experience isn't everything because the more experienced Kira (which i still think him to be) lost to Shinn

Originally posted by: antoine
They're mixing up seed colors for some reason because last time I saw Kira going into seed mode Athrun's green seed was shown.

that's not true actually
last time we actually saw Kira's seed pop was in episode 32, the Destroy fight and it clearly is purple (11:15 on episode 32)

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
All right I am sorry but please spare me. He was indeed trying to protect Stellar when he gave her to Neo. At the moment it was a better option than watching her suffer until she gets disected alive or dies on the bed all scared and crying. I don't know about you but I would have done the same thing. He wasn't trying to dodge responsibility. He was doing the only thing that he could do to possibly save her. He couldn't have possibly known that Neo was going to have her slaughter three cities full of innocent people with the Destroy. If you love someone are you just going to let them suffer and be disected when you promised to protect them or are you going to give them back to the only person who could possibly save them. I would choose the second one cause it is what the average sane person would do. If I was Shinn I would probably want revenge on Kira too. Even tough Stellar deserves no kind of forgiveness whatsoever from anyone Shinn loved her and she loved him and love makes you do stupid things. Example: While Kira was fighting Rau he flew straight for Fllay completely ignoring the most dangerous suit on the field at the moment. I 'm not saying this cause I like Shinn just so you know.

Please not I for one lack any reason to justify the Love between Stellar and Shinn that so many people like to point out. To me Stellar loves Neo he's the person she always called out for first and the one that she always listened to and followed reguardless. While on the other hand Shinn aside from claiming he would protect Stellar as to me he saw her as a defenceless girl more of a sister really then a lover at any point. Shinn never so much as kissed her the most relevant thing we have is flying naked time when she was in destroy which really just showed she was glad to see him. In the end Neo's words were more powerful then Shinn's and thus Kira disabled Destroy.

I will state something once again I have absolutely NO idea how Stellar could have died and her final words remain to be directly translated to "Shinn like" and not "Shinn I love you" as was interpreted by subbers as Suki litterally means like I see her statement more of one made to a older brother who just protected his sister then of one lover to another. Also please note that when she dies that Shinn remembers his sisters death above that of his parents which continues to aim me at she was more of a sibling.

You can absolutely love a sister or brother in a differn't way and I do see that Shinn could only see her as a victum who he wanted to try and protect from the harshness of war. Also please note comparing Fllay to Stellar is just something that shouldn't be done. Fllay is rather close to Shinn in that they both went insane upon watching there family die in front of them and in the end Fllay right before dying had finally turned around and started regretting what she had done and in turn we had naked time with Kira and Fllay where she became Kira's guardian angel.

In the end I believe Stellar really was more of a reflection on Kira as a what if situation. One where Fllay instead of being the girl who snapped was instead Shinn who had snapped and become a MS pilot. Where instead Stellar much like Shinn was forced into a position where she believed she had to fight in order to protect those closest to her much like Kira did in all of Gundam Seed.

As far as Shinn goes realise that even after finding out it was Stellar and after Neo was shot down that Shinn did not blame Neo or Stellar but instead Kira who was nothing more or less then the one to disable Stellars suit and save Shinn's life. Perhaps if Shinn had bothered to check on Stellar, who obviously was not bleeding and also had no noteable disfigurement, was infact dead or had just had a problem that may have been treatable before dumping her in a lake she could have been saved. Or had he really wanted to avenge her and in turn have his actions be for her it would have to me atleast been more fitting for him to take her pendant and wear it for the rest of the series. All Shinn does instead is toss the body and his humanity and go into vengence mode the guy at this point in the series is a complete nutcase and I find that case impossible to argue.

[monkeyman]

shin needs to die. Kira didn't even go into seed mode and if he was trying to kill him he would of taken down shin no problem. I seriously hate whoever made destiny right now. They made the main charecter the worst in the world and i think they need to die right along with shin (kira is my favorite charecter)

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: monkeyman
shin needs to die. Kira didn't even go into seed mode and if he was trying to kill him he would of taken down shin no problem. I seriously hate whoever made destiny right now. They made the main charecter the worst in the world and i think they need to die right along with shin (kira is my favorite charecter)

well it's obvious Kira is your fav but for the record, Kira WAS in Seed mode, they just didn't show his seed popping like with Shinn's, you get an eyeshot of Kira in the latter part of the episode (17:55 into the episode) and you can clearly see he is in seedmode (no sparkle and such you know)

edit: just look at the way Kira's eyes look at 3:05 into the episode and 17:55 into the episode (3:05 is before the opening and 17:55 obviously after it)