Episode 34 (may contain SPOILERS)

**Curium** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by: darkshadow
well im not sure if that explosion was the tannhauser, i mean if it was, AA should be scrapped, wouldnt that make athrun scream CAGALLI!! instead of KIRA??

The Archangel was already at least 90% underwater and the water protected them some.

I still contend that there was only one explosion, they just changed the point of view on it. Like someone pointed out you can clearly see the remenants of the Tannhauser shot in the first scene, and the explsion was clearly still growing. They just simply zoomed out the view after that. If you look at the explosion as it approches Minerva you can tell it is the same explosion as the one after it zooms out. I repeat Freedom NEVER exploded.

BTW: I don't think Neo was recovering any memories in that scene, it seemed to me that he saw something that maybe he could use to try and escape.

**Marks** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by: EpoC
now he will be even more arrogant that he will go around and think he can take on anybody.

DUDE! He just trashed Freedom/Kira! He CAN take on ANYBODY.
Shinn rules!

**Shinji Ikari** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by: Chaoskiddo
1. the word is mode, not mod
2. its shinn

and now, we've all been hoping for athurn to fuck up shinn for a long time, and i dont think kira's dead either. if the eyes are the key signs to seed mode, does that mean lacus has seed mode? (if you look in GS while shes in the eternal speaking at episode 49 (or 48) her eyes become like that too, yet she hasnt even fought in a mobile suit.

Yes, in fact, both Cagalli who believes herself to be a Natural and Lacus have SEED modes.

This episode has been one of the most debated episodes. Most opinions has had light shed on them, so there isn't anything left for me to say that I didn't point out in the two first pages of this thread...

However, Now that someone pointed out the fact that Kira doesn't aim at any vital points of the Gundam, I could also state that this makes him very vounerable because you can easily predict his movements... One factor in war giving uncertainty in who will claim victory is depending on how unpredictable you are and the ability to surprise and do something that the opponent has not seen before in battle. Kira cannot do this which points him at a large dissadvantage in battle.

Very simple, if Kira goes back to fighting for Frey (or at least in the way he fought to protect her) he would go back to being like Shinn is now which would make me call him insane as well. The only difference between Kira and Shinn is that Kira always had a sense of justice and always battled with himself everytime he got in that cockpit.

Oh, and as a side-note... I don't know how anyone could defend Shinn's actions. He is being immoral, arrogant, he is lost in hatred and he is insane... Now if anyone could defend that kind of behaviour, I guess there is no wonder there are murderes in this world

**romancing_xaga** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by: XwingRob

Originally posted by: LaZyKiD
I bet Kira left the bottom half of Freedom and flew off somewhere else with the other half.

Yes, if that huge explosion at the end was Freedom blowing up, I think this is the likely scenario.

Edit: After watching the episode again, the big explosion has to be the Freedom, because the explosion occurs from the side of Minerva.

of course, it has to be freedom who exploded, its very unlikely that he didn't exploded. For further proof, take a fucking good look at Shinn's Impulse. it's so wasted, it shouldn't be even flying like that.

**k_truong** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:37 PM

lol i just love how much of a hypocrite shin is and what an arrogrant prick he truely is
"i wont let you have your ways" or something along those lines... and shin being king dick himself does whateva he likes whenever he wants.

yes i must hand it to him.. shin was amazing in that fight... luckily for him kira didn't take him out by attacking his head.

i think kira would learn from his mistakes.

**Shinji Ikari** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:40 PM

Kira reminds me of Kenshin... And who did not love Kenshin for his ideals?.... As Kira is like Kenshin, he can't die [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] Not yet, there is so much for him to do.

**XwingRob** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: darkshadow
well im not sure if that explosion was the tannhauser, i mean if it was, AA should be scrapped, wouldnt that make athrun scream CAGALLI!! instead of KIRA??

The Archangel was already at least 90% underwater and the water protected them some.

I still contend that there was only one explosion, they just changed the point of view on it. Like someone pointed out you can clearly see the remenants of the Tannhauser shot in the first scene, and the explsion was clearly still growing. They just simply zoomed out the view after that. If you look at the explosion as it approches Minerva you can tell it is the same explosion as the one after it zooms out. I repeat Freedom NEVER exploded.

I don't know Curium, it really looks like the big explosion is occuring from the side of the Minerva...

**Curium** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by: XwingRob
I don't know Curium, it really looks like the big explosion is occuring from the side of the Minerva...

Again, look at the first screen of the explosion (after it shows Kira and Shinn following the final stab), it shows the Minerva turning as the explosion approaches, though you sort of have to be looking for it. It is the same scene that you see the follow up red line from the Tannhauser shot.

**XwingRob** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: XwingRob
I don't know Curium, it really looks like the big explosion is occuring from the side of the Minerva...

Again, look at the first screen of the explosion (after it shows Kira and Shinn following the final stab), it shows the Minerva turning as the explosion approaches, though you sort of have to be looking for it. It is the same scene that you see the follow up red line from the Tannhauser shot.

Hmm, I think I can see the Minreva turning...

Edit: Wait... from the second angle of the big explosion, it looks like it's occuring far more out at sea, at least far more out then were Freedom was.
Also, after Tannhauser hit the water, there was a warning signal coming from Kira's right. Shinn did not appear to be attacking from the right, but straight on, perhaps the warning signal was for the big explosion caused by the Tannhauser.

**Splash!** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:12 PM

i dunno curium. I have seen the tannhauser being fired before. it dusn cause that big of an explosion. This was definitely nuclear. The size of the explosion obviously suggests that. I dont get how Shinn, let alone Kira cud have survived anything like that. Well if Kira can somehow survive this one, then nobody can say anything about it being impossible for mwu to survive the gotfried from the dominion.
Hell if all this is possible, then it should be possibe for rau to survive the big head bang Kira gave him, along with that shot from GENESIS

**DDBen** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:28 PM

please not a few things here the second explosion could not have been Kira due to the fact shinn was only about maybe 100 yards which is pushing it from the bits of freedoms head and wing, while on the other hand the Minerva was blown back atleast 20 times as far. Due to simple mass there is absolutely no way for that to take place if Shinn was on top of the explosion. Also note that they clearly show head and wing fragments from freedom meaning that kira couldn't have just ejected the lower half and run away.

I found every bit of this fight stupid and completely out of character as I have stated in my earlier posts. My guess is that the initial explosion is from the Tannhauser hitting the water. While the second explosion was it hitting the seabed , which could easily cause the damage shown to impulse as well as whatever damage freedom likely took. As the parts were scattered in the opposit direction of shinn with the wing fragments closest to him and the head fragments(atleast thats what I believe the pointy bits that look like a V are) are the farthest away denoting that to be atleast Freedom was turned around and heading into the water. Consider also that Kira used a similar sword to the one Shinn uses when piloting the strike so he would certainly be capable of realising that it would go through freedom in turn the only reason to raise his shield like that would be to divert the blade away from a vital area of his suit. Also note they showed no bits of Shinn's sword which if freedom had exploded would have had to have been in the wreckage with the rest of the unit or instead over by Impulse.

**XwingRob** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:42 PM

Oh yeah I got a question. At one point in the episode Minerva called Archangel the "flagship".
Now is that a translation error(since a flagship is actually the fleet's main command ship")? Did she really say flagship or something like "top ship" or "ace ship" or something like that?

**romancing_xaga** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by: DDBen
please not a few things here the second explosion could not have been Kira due to the fact shinn was only about maybe 100 yards which is pushing it from the bits of freedoms head and wing, while on the other hand the Minerva was blown back atleast 20 times as far. Due to simple mass there is absolutely no way for that to take place if Shinn was on top of the explosion. Also note that they clearly show head and wing fragments from freedom meaning that kira couldn't have just ejected the lower half and run away.

I found every bit of this fight stupid and completely out of character as I have stated in my earlier posts. My guess is that the initial explosion is from the Tannhauser hitting the water. While the second explosion was it hitting the seabed , which could easily cause the damage shown to impulse as well as whatever damage freedom likely took. As the parts were scattered in the opposit direction of shinn with the wing fragments closest to him and the head fragments(atleast thats what I believe the pointy bits that look like a V are) are the farthest away denoting that to be atleast Freedom was turned around and heading into the water. Consider also that Kira used a similar sword to the one Shinn uses when piloting the strike so he would certainly be capable of realising that it would go through freedom in turn the only reason to raise his shield like that would be to divert the blade away from a vital area of his suit. Also note they showed no bits of Shinn's sword which if freedom had exploded would have had to have been in the wreckage with the rest of the unit or instead over by Impulse.

I completely understand what your trying to say. From what you are saying I hear a voice that says "Kira can't die? Thats just freakin impossible! theres gotta be some kinda excuse for all of this!"

It's just your imagination speaking here my friend, motivated by your desire for Kira to survive that. But I think what this episode is really trying to convey is that Kira has completely lost to Shinn. He was 100% unprepared therefore he was 100% beaten. Why? It doesnt matter if he didn't fight 100%, the point is that he lost.

Watch the damn thing again - > First explosion is from the Taunhauser cannon. Second explosion is from Kira's destruction. Get it? The explosions you guys say that was from the side of Minerva was Kira exploding.

Both of them are already in the water (AA and Kira), look carefully at the exact moment when taunhauser hit the water, there was a small explosion, then immediately cut and show Impulse and Freedom fighting. From here, the explosion is over. Then when Impulse stabbed Kira, a short slow mo then sudden explosion, next showing the waves blowing towards Minerva, blowing them away from the explosion, from the SIDE. Now they would have fired the Taunhauser in FRONT OF THEM, NOT SIDE OF THEM, since AA is in front of them, not in side. Get it?

**Curium** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by: romancing_xaga
next showing the waves blowing towards Minerva, blowing them away from the explosion, from the SIDE. Now they would have fired the Taunhauser in FRONT OF THEM, NOT SIDE OF THEM, since AA is in front of them, not in side. Get it?

Watch that scene more carefully. The explosion WAS IN FRONT of them, but it turned. Like I said, you have to be looking for it to really notice though.

Originally posted by: splash
i dunno curium. I have seen the tannhauser being fired before. it dusn cause that big of an explosion. This was definitely nuclear. The size of the explosion obviously suggests that. I dont get how Shinn, let alone Kira cud have survived anything like that. Well if Kira can somehow survive this one, then nobody can say anything about it being impossible for mwu to survive the gotfried from the dominion.

We haven't seen it much though. Plus we have never seen it used on Earth successfully. The three times they have tried to use it (before this): twice if was blocked by a Positron Reflector, and the third time Kira blew it up before it fired. Also that explosion was NOT NUCLEAR. Nuclear explosions result in a mushroom cloud, not a big "dome" explosion. I even looked up "positron" online just to make sure, they would definately be capable of that explosion, especially if it ignited some of the positrons in the water. Water is a good conductor so it could potentially grow larger hitting water then it would hitting the ground (sand/non-metallic rocks aren't good conductors). Here are a couple of links at Wikipedia with some info.

Positron

Electron-positron annihilation

And just a note, Mwu was shot by the Dominion's Lohingrin (sp?), not the Gottfried.

**SilverSurfie** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 07:45 PM

For the record I'm a Kira fan and a Shinn hater. Now looking at this battle objectively yes Shinn won and yes Kira lost. And it all boiled down to being prepared. A prepared team with less talent has a chance to beat a unprepared team with greater talent. But in the same token does this mean Shinn is better or even on par with Kira? Totally not. Reasons being Kira shooting himself in the foot with his own morals and ideals. But thats why I like Kira, because he is a person of high morals and greater ideals. (ala Kenshin) There is no doubt that Kira wasnt fighting with all his entire potential. In previous episodes I believe Waldfield made a comment about him not being as good as Kira so he had to shoot to kill. This implying that going for the nonlethal blows is much much harder. And I agree with his assessment. If you didnt have to worry about killing you dont have to control every lil action you make.

So lets end all this Shinn > Kira. Because Shinn is nothing more then a pussy whipped, psychopathic, arrogant, egotistical tool. Hes good but not good enough to take Kira mono-to-mono. Zaft just zerged the shit out of AA and Kira... And we all kno zergs suck... Look at the Horde in WoW hahahahaha

**romancing_xaga** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 07:56 PM

What are you? Freaks? It doesn't have to scientifically make sense, besides your the one who's suppose to watch it again. If it did explode in front of them they would have been slowed down and pushed back a little bit, but since the scene specifically shows that they got pushed sidewards, then it suggests that the explosion was from their side. BTW, I didnt say it was a nuclear explosion. Although I will support the idea that it is not a normal explosion. Anyway, if indeed there was a nuclear explosion it exploded not as a bomb, as you assumed. I believe if there was any nuclear part that was hit, its the battery, whiched leaked energy by the stabbing, therefore realeasing a massive explosion. Besides doesn't matter, this episode wanted us to think Kira died.

**Shinji Ikari** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:02 PM

Yeah, but what if Kira really did die?

**XForce** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:02 PM

I cannot wait to see what reason the creators pull out of their ass to explain how Kira survives this... Yes Kira must survive for the sole reason because there is Strike Freedom. That is the only reason why he lives basically.

**Pwas** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:14 PM

I'm sorry how can you compare Kira to Kenshin. Its 2 different anime and first of all hes not even the main character so hes got nothing to do with anything and from watching the anime since first episode i find him and the AA's appearences in war just making things worst. They should just go back to Orb and do something with themselves because this isnt there war. Who made them the "Justice Leagues" to be on top of everyones business. Think about it what did the Logos do against Zaft and whats this gotta do with Orbs Ideals. And how does Kira own when this episode proved he got his ass whipped, and why doesnt this prove that Shinn can take him. It shows in this episode that Shinn has the ability to take him outs, and even when Kira gets Strike Freedom he will still get owned by Shinn because Kira said it in GS that Freedom was stronger than Strike. And this time its not Zaft remodeling Freedom its Lacus's secret team, so there will be even more of a decrease in power. Shinn will recieve "Destiny" and from looks of it, he will be crazy with this. But i believe in the end Shinn will join up with the AA just like what happened in GS. Just stop hating on Shinn cause he can take Kira anyday.

**fenix000** · Sun, 06-12-2005, 08:29 PM

First of all ...... there is nothing wrong with comparing to different animes, Kira and kenshin are not two different ppl but rather to of the same. If you watched the anime like i and many other ppl have u would realise they fight for there own beliefs and ideals aswell as protecting their loved ones.
And as for AA interfering in battles.. wtf does that have 2 do with anything.. EAF and Zaft soldiers battling are gona die anyways from either side so why not interfer and make it worse for them. And since u bitch about shinn so much lets make it clear to u! --------SHINN beat KIRA! yes ! we knw! he whoops his sorry ass!---------- Shinn does have the ability to take out kira, but what gives him strength is shinns hatred, anger,sorrow and pain! thats his power! Shinn has yet 2 be cleasned like kira, and when he realises that he will knw how hard it is to fight without killing. But ill have to comment about shinn beating kira anyday. NOT GONA HAPPEN ! kira's purpose is far stronger then that of shinn's! becoz he carriers the weight and fate of the world on his shoulders as well as his loved ones.

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