Episode 34 (may contain SPOILERS)

[PTX-003C]

Originally posted by: antoine
WHAT A GREAT FCKIN EPISODE...though I didn't understand shit -_- (only word i understood was demo - but lol)
The fight was great and funny as fuck...kira was easily avoiding shinn just to hear what the archangle/minerva are yapping about...so funnyyyyyy

So basic summary of a fight:

Shinn after researching freedom, getting into seed mode, and continously switching equipment > Kira not in seed mode

We all knew kira's puny ass shield wont block that big ass sword sillouhette thingy so it was easy to determine the end of the fight lol

Originally posted by: k_truong
dont you guys find it odd
out of all the times when kira's life was in danger... he didn't go in seed mode this time...
oh yeh.. i think kira did went for the kill.. he went for a slash at impulses body.. but it disembles.. if it dind't disemble dont you think thats the end of shin?

well kira didnt go for the kill.

if you recall in seed when he first uses freedom on earth, he used the same move against Yzak and cut him across the waist (where impulse disassembled) and the cockpit is in the chest foo'.

and ptx...CRY? [img][/img]

huh? what about me crying??????
and kira was in seed mode since the start of the phase(after op)

[Shinji Ikari]

Sorry, I have not read every post...

But this is What I think...

Shinn is no where close to Kira and will never be.

1. Kira is the "Ultimate" Cordinater, not only because of SEED, He just is as it was explained in GS.
2. Kira was distracted.
3. Kira's vow not to kill, I'm not too good with the Japanese, but as i heard it, Kira doesn't aim for the cockpit or any vital parts because he doesn't want anymore people to die by his hands.

4. Maybe the most vital issue conserning Kira's level of skill is that even if he uses SEED he won't be as emotionally invloved in battle the way he was in GS. Kira doesn't want his mind to become havoc and thus contains himself from crossing that bridge (That goes for Athrun as well which is the reason why Athrun is prepared to take shit from Shinn although Shinn is just a royal ass).

No one could ever match up to Kira of the old days in battle... No one in GSD can match up to Kira's sense of Justice. So what can we draw out of this? The conclusion is that Kira has focused himself upon becoming the most humane person alive who doesn't fall for crap coming from Dulindal or anyone else who claim to fight for justice.

So as a finale, If Kira lives, then he knows that he will have to get more invloved in the battles and he will wreck havoc and Shinn will be unable to catch up to Kira's strength. And if Kira dies, I hope to god that Athrun kills Shinn, give him the most painful death...

Actually (sorry, can't stop typing about this because it's such an important and turning event of this anime) what I think will happen is that when Cagalli returns to Orb, Athrun will stop fighting for ZAFT and return to the AA and with all his heart try to kill Shinn every time they do battle (which will make Shinn understand that Athrun is the real deal in battle).

And as an alternate event to Athrun joining the AA again, they will think Kira is dead for a long time (hopefully a short time) and then he will return with a new Gundam and they will fight together again.

PS.what is the Strike Freedom and have we seen any pictures of it?

[valkirie19]

He definitely was in seed mode the whole time but he doesn't fight as hard as crybaby Shinn, and doesn't have as many girlish acessoriesas Shinn is a barbie doll for Gundam. Not to mention he's always crying about losing a family member or friend. What about everyone else in the show, Kira, Fley,Cagali,Athrun, Lacus. They never went off the deep end like Shinn has. Kira and Athrun did fight to the death against each other in GS, but not for reasons like Shinn. I 'm sorry but their friends weren't out commiting genocide on whole cities.

[Jurojin]

@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.

Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.

Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.

Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.

War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.

[heero]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.

Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.

Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.

Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.

War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.

I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.

[valkirie19]

Being a soldier in the Army, we are taught blindly following orders doesn't make it right. There are always orders you know to follow or disobey. Heck he didn't even follow simple rules of engagement. Shinn could have tried to take the time to figure another way of capturing Kira but chose revenge. I mean come on do you think if he was given orders to take them alive he would've. I've had friends and family members lose there lives in war but blind rage doesn't solve anything, it just gets more people hurt. Shinn hasn't thought about it but he's just as bad a person as the mobile suit pilots that killed his family. He's killed someone's father, brother etc... Shinn is a superb pilot. How hard could it be to disable a moblie suit if Kira and Athrun can do it. He doesn't even care that Stellar left hundreds in worse condition. Don't get me wrong, I thought Shinn was an ok character at first until I noticed he doesn't believe in anything except vengance. If someone showed him what he was doing I'm think he may change his ways.

[Shinji Ikari]

Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.

Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.

Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.

Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.

War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.

Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.


>>>>I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.<<<<

Not done anything wrong? His smile after defeating Freedom shows that what he does is wrong, not by orders, but because he does it for the wrong reasons... If it would have been Athrun he would have done it reluctlantly but still follow his orders, he would not grin and go out to battle just waiting to kill someone... And when Shinn has been jumping from ship to ship killing of EAF and ORB forces that were pulling back. "Hell yeah", that is the correct actions to take. Following orders and following orders isn't the same thing when one does it with a smile on his face and the other with pain.

[Digitalgirl]

So what makes/made Kira and the AA crew different? Why were they able to see things from the leaders point of view, and act on what they felt was right? Why doesn't anyone else see it that way? What makes people follow orders without hesitation, or when they know it's wrong?

[Shinji Ikari]

Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
So what makes/made Kira and the AA crew different? Why were they able to see things from the leaders point of view, and act on what they felt was right? Why doesn't anyone else see it that way? What makes people follow orders without hesitation, or when they know it's wrong?

??? Have you watched GS?

Kira has been fighting for everyone and no one always. He fights to end battles, in every battle he has made an apperance, it has been to stop EAF, Orb and ZAFT from fighting, you might say that he and AA is the mother between two brothers fighting... No one gives him or AA the right except that they fight for both EAF and for ZAFT just like a mother does... ZAFT fights to destroy brother nr 1 and EAS fights to destroy nr 2... So Mother has to protect them both from doing the wrong thing, and she might get a kick or two for doing the right thing, but eventually, they'll all see it mothers way and stop fighting.

That is the difference oh ignorant one

[Digitalgirl]

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
So what makes/made Kira and the AA crew different? Why were they able to see things from the leaders point of view, and act on what they felt was right? Why doesn't anyone else see it that way? What makes people follow orders without hesitation, or when they know it's wrong?

??? Have you watched GS?

Kira has been fighting for everyone and no one always. He fights to end battles, in every battle he has made an apperance, it has been to stop EAF, Orb and ZAFT from fighting, you might say that he and AA is the mother between two brothers fighting... No one gives him or AA the right except that they fight for both EAF and for ZAFT just like a mother does... ZAFT fights to destroy brother nr 1 and EAS fights to destroy nr 2... So Mother has to protect them both from doing the wrong thing, and she might get a kick or two for doing the right thing, but eventually, they'll all see it mothers way and stop fighting.

That is the difference oh ignorant one

No one gives him or AA the right
That depends on your def. of "right". What gives Zaft and the EAF the "right" to go to war and to kill each other?

[Jurojin]

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari


Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.

I never said anything about "by law." Try looking past your own face and see the reality of the situation. Baka.


*breathe* I was not saying his actions are right and just. I never did. What I WAS saying, and people seem to stupidly ignore this whenever the topic comes up, is that NOBODY is bound by the same code of ethics, the same sense of right and wrong, as other people. Just because you think it's wrong of him to do the things he does, doesn't mean he has to think that way. In his mind, he feels he's doing the right thing: fighting LOGOS and the people responsible for the pain Stellar had through her life (experimentation crap), fighting the one he sees as responsible for the death of his comrades and loved ones (right or not).

No, everyone does NOT have to be rational. It would be nice, it would make the world a better place, but nobody HAS to do it. You're showing your naivety, and your Kira-loving and pro-Shinn-bashing, by taking this stance.

[Shinji Ikari]

Originally posted by: Jurojin

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari


Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.

I never said anything about "by law." Try looking past your own face and see the reality of the situation. Baka.


*breathe* I was not saying his actions are right and just. I never did. What I WAS saying, and people seem to stupidly ignore this whenever the topic comes up, is that NOBODY is bound by the same code of ethics, the same sense of right and wrong, as other people. Just because you think it's wrong of him to do the things he does, doesn't mean he has to think that way. In his mind, he feels he's doing the right thing: fighting LOGOS and the people responsible for the pain Stellar had through her life (experimentation crap), fighting the one he sees as responsible for the death of his comrades and loved ones (right or not).

No, everyone does NOT have to be rational. It would be nice, it would make the world a better place, but nobody HAS to do it. You're showing your naivety, and your Kira-loving and pro-Shinn-bashing, by taking this stance.

Yeah, everyone has his own etics and reactions, but after that? One has to take control of his life to realize that his behaviour up til that point has been wrong.

>>>No one gives him or AA the right
That depends on your def. of "right". What gives Zaft and the EAF the "right" to go to war and to kill each other?<<<

No, they gave themselves the right to interfere because they know that what they are doing is to help end the war, it doesn't really help that EAF and ZAFt is throwing in more guns in the fire to make it pop even louder. Dullindal claims to be fighting for justice, Logos also claims to fight for justice... So why is everyone fighting? This is stupid... The only reason AA started fighting was because Zaft and EAF started fighting, thus, AA can't be wrong because they aren't taking sides but fighting for both... Kira has saved countless by shooting a lot of MS down and he has also saved the Minerva, Orb military... He saves lives that EAF and ZAFT is destroying...

No one gave him the right or told him this is what you need to do. He and AA tries to save everyone withour trying to gain anything from this war whilst both EAF and ZAFT leaders are trying to gain something.. The ones who does something without thinking of themselves must be the ones that are correct when trying to save something. Because they all claim that is what they want.

Originally posted by: heero

Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.

Why is it weak?

And that exactly what is so wrong with Shinn, he is mad, he is insane and needs help. Which one would you rather have, a person who just loves to shoot people or the one who does it because he is told to?

My argument is not weak because it is based upon how actions and war are born... With people like Shinn, war could never end and with people like Kira war is fought for everyone to end with the smallest amount of damage... That is where the difference in following an order with a smile and with a sad face changes so much.

[Jurojin]

Yeah, everyone has his own etics and reactions, but after that? One has to take control of his life to realize that his behaviour up til that point has been wrong

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

Wow, you just have a one track mind, don't you. You admit you're wrong, but then stick with the same unreasonable line.


Ok, I'll be Shinn's advocate for a moment: "I am a soldier for ZAFT. My job is to stop the enemy, whomever it may be at the time."

That right there justifies, to himself at least, every life taken in combat, as well as his attempt to kill Kira.

on a more personal level "My family was killed in part due to war and the government's choice to make our country hostile ground, which is a result of their attempts to do nothing towards one side or the other at war. the EAF has tortured and scarred Stellar with their experiments, and was later killed by Freedom. (in his mind, though the details of her death are debated here). I must destroy the EAF/LOGOS for their atrocites, and Freedom for being reponsible for the death of my friends."

There, so far most of what he's done has been rationalized and justified IN HIS MIND.

I dare you to come up with a reason that someone with that mindset should "Suddenly realize what he's been doing is wrong" that does not include your own sense of right and wrong forced on him. In the situation that he's in, with the experiances that he's had, with the mindset I've described, there is absolutly no reason he should change his stance or ways that doesn't include "Well, he's wrong in my mind and in what I see to be the grand scheme of things."

[heero]

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Originally posted by: Jurojin

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari


Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.

I never said anything about "by law." Try looking past your own face and see the reality of the situation. Baka.


*breathe* I was not saying his actions are right and just. I never did. What I WAS saying, and people seem to stupidly ignore this whenever the topic comes up, is that NOBODY is bound by the same code of ethics, the same sense of right and wrong, as other people. Just because you think it's wrong of him to do the things he does, doesn't mean he has to think that way. In his mind, he feels he's doing the right thing: fighting LOGOS and the people responsible for the pain Stellar had through her life (experimentation crap), fighting the one he sees as responsible for the death of his comrades and loved ones (right or not).

No, everyone does NOT have to be rational. It would be nice, it would make the world a better place, but nobody HAS to do it. You're showing your naivety, and your Kira-loving and pro-Shinn-bashing, by taking this stance.

Yeah, everyone has his own etics and reactions, but after that? One has to take control of his life to realize that his behaviour up til that point has been wrong.

>>>No one gives him or AA the right
That depends on your def. of "right". What gives Zaft and the EAF the "right" to go to war and to kill each other?<<<

No, they gave themselves the right to interfere because they know that what they are doing is to help end the war, it doesn't really help that EAF and ZAFt is throwing in more guns in the fire to make it pop even louder. Dullindal claims to be fighting for justice, Logos also claims to fight for justice... So why is everyone fighting? This is stupid... The only reason AA started fighting was because Zaft and EAF started fighting, thus, AA can't be wrong because they aren't taking sides but fighting for both... Kira has saved countless by shooting a lot of MS down and he has also saved the Minerva, Orb military... He saves lives that EAF and ZAFT is destroying...

No one gave him the right or told him this is what you need to do. He and AA tries to save everyone withour trying to gain anything from this war whilst both EAF and ZAFT leaders are trying to gain something.. The ones who does something without thinking of themselves must be the ones that are correct when trying to save something. Because they all claim that is what they want.

Originally posted by: heero

Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.

Why is it weak?

And that exactly what is so wrong with Shinn, he is mad, he is insane and needs help. Which one would you rather have, a person who just loves to shoot people or the one who does it because he is told to?

My argument is not weak because it is based upon how actions and war are born... With people like Shinn, war could never end and with people like Kira war is fought for everyone to end with the smallest amount of damage... That is where the difference in following an order with a smile and with a sad face changes so much.

Like you said, Shinn needs help. And what does he get? More and more of his loved ones died. So how can he be the one to blame and how can he be hated. And of course Kira is the ideal personality and can even be compared to God but that kind of thing dont happen in real life. You wont see a person running out in the middle of a war between to countries and tries to stop them because why? That person will end up dead. Kira is acting like he is because the story is suppose to make him like a hero and save the day. While Shinn is more a typical realistic person. If someone goes and kills your whole family, you would want to take revenge on that person too rather than being mister nice guy and tells him to go home and not do it again.

[Dannynonsense]

most of you guys talking right now are real idiots i mean seriously at this point of the story do you think shinn is the same when GSD first started all that crap he was saying its out the window he has no remorse for his actions blaming everyone else for things that are his fault. you guys are in love with the character too much you talk as if all the things that shinn is doing is right and everthing the AA is doing is wrong, everyone from eaf to zaft in the story is saying there fighting to protect themselves wrong there being manipulated by people who are causing wars for their own gain. so why is what the AA is DOING WRONG. one more thing for those of you who think shinn now wholes supremacy in the GSD shinn lovers just shut up okay clearly that fight BS accept shinn is just a madman whose gonna die

[heero]

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.

Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.

Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.

Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.

War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.

Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.


>>>>I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.<<<<

Not done anything wrong? His smile after defeating Freedom shows that what he does is wrong, not by orders, but because he does it for the wrong reasons... If it would have been Athrun he would have done it reluctlantly but still follow his orders, he would not grin and go out to battle just waiting to kill someone... And when Shinn has been jumping from ship to ship killing of EAF and ORB forces that were pulling back. "Hell yeah", that is the correct actions to take. Following orders and following orders isn't the same thing when one does it with a smile on his face and the other with pain.

Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari

Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.

Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.

Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.

Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.

War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.

Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.

Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)

No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.


>>>>I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.<<<<

Not done anything wrong? His smile after defeating Freedom shows that what he does is wrong, not by orders, but because he does it for the wrong reasons... If it would have been Athrun he would have done it reluctlantly but still follow his orders, he would not grin and go out to battle just waiting to kill someone... And when Shinn has been jumping from ship to ship killing of EAF and ORB forces that were pulling back. "Hell yeah", that is the correct actions to take. Following orders and following orders isn't the same thing when one does it with a smile on his face and the other with pain.

Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.

okay saying that shinn follows orders is wrong cause he doesnt. he follows himself and no one else. did he follow orders when he took stellar back to neo? he is disrespecful to superiors and acts as if he is the bigshot on the minerva. the only reason he fought freedom was to avenge stellar for his own personal gain.

i would like to end this with im not saying this because i dislike shinn which i do. i say it because its like that, he does as he pleases and follows the orders he wants to follow.

[Shinji Ikari]

I'd have to bow to that.... You are totally correct... SO I'd have to change what I said to following orders to go out to the battle field.

[valkirie19]

Shiin isn't looking to fix his losses with force, he's looking for revenge plain and simple. The sad thing is he doesn't understand who's at fault for the death of his family. He just wants someone to blame. Orb has always been his enemy since his family died before and after they joined the EAF, it just made it easier for him to kill somone when they joined the battles. He's never said if he's ever had any ideals on freedom or war ending, he just wants a never ending battle. He blames Kira for killing Stellar and yet doesn't want to take any responsibilty for returning her to the enemy that put her in a mobile suit in the first place. If you know the EAF can't be trusted then why return her. Shinn is a little immature. He isn't protecting anything or anyone. I'm a soldier in the military and I know from being in Iraq, if a soldier doesn't have something he's fighting for or someone to protect then he's no longer a soldier, he's a murderer.

[Mae]

Man, these ep discussion threads are getting long.... But a guess this ep deserves it. Very fun. I loved the scene with the AA turning a corner and running right into their enemy was great, and I liked the ships' near miss too. Shinn and Kira's fight did not disappoint either. Shinn knew Kira would go for the arms and legs, so he just arranged to have them replaced and kept on fighting. I like how at the end Kira realized that his suit was too damaged and Shinn was still in good shape, He knew he was going to lose and was like "No! not here!"

And after this ep I've decided to join the "Shinn is evil" side (note, this is different from the "I hate Shinn" group, 'cause actually I think he's ok, just evil). There have been a lot of hints here and there, his ignoring Athrun's warnings to spare civilians while fighting, his irrational obsession with revenge, his evil giggle after shooting down Kira (really, he's got to work on that laugh), but, mainly, its his red eyes and evil eyebrows. I mean, just look at that expression. There's no way a guy with eyebrows like that could be a good guy