Episode 34 (may contain SPOILERS)

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Madell

Originally posted by: Guardian_2000
As for my spoiler Madell it has everything to do with 34 because its 34's events that lead to that outcome. I can always change it to say that its a Destiny Astray spoiler.

No because...you'r talking about future epi's not about epi 34 [img][/img]

Actually his spoiler had nothing to do with GSD at all. Its not a spoiler to say freedom had wreckage or Kira survives as its easily interpreted by the beginning and ending. With the exception of if your crazy enough to think Calgari gets Strik Freedom.

@Digigirl and Jurojin
The first Theory in question never had a chance to take place the sacriice of freedom was not needed and they never showed Kira launching in this episode so why would they use any other pilot they simply skipped the section that this scenario which was one of many I put out each which had SPECIFIC requirements for them to take place.

As for Shinn please tell me any example of him obeying orders or taking responsability for what he's done at anyplace in the series post the battle where they left Orb. Shinn has changed a lot during the series he disobey's orders because he thinks he's right. He felt that by giving Stellar back to Neo he could in his world get her off the battlefield and out of his way as he did not want to fight her. So yes by giving her to Neo he was attempting to purely make it easier for him to kill without remorse. I don't deney he had feelings for Stellar in my opinion his feelings were more of romantic while hers were more of big brother who is going to protect me. Note that Stellar's romantic interest has been portrayed as Neo who she always calls for first and who she would do anything for atleast in my opinion.

So in the end dump Stellar on Neo to get her out of the way. Thats all that Shinn did and upon finding Neo broke his promise Shinn does not blame Neo at all there was absolutely zero mention. Instead he blames Kira for saving his life.

[qilinkiddo]

sub or raw version of episode 34 has come out...onli those who never watch before would consider it as a spoiler...
but the future episode...everyone had never watch before...aint this make it a spoiler too... -_-

[qilinkiddo]

i watch the episode...kira could have dodge even tho he was distracted by the arch angel...
but why did the freedom instead of dodging or shut down his thruster and charge towards the impulse...
he had the time to charge...why did not he dodge -_-

[jing]

Man if Kira had the intent to kill, Shinn would have died. But nevertheless, Shinn did know what he was doing. Finally showed the advantages of being able to detach and such.

[qilinkiddo]

thats the kira we know =D
lolz...i like it when kira thought it is over after chopping of the head and the hand and going to move towards AA i think
out of the blue...impulse detach and its body goes flying towards freedom lolz

[thejamppa]

Right, as Knowing Talia and Her character and fact he realizes who Ramius was when they replied her call and considering fact more than 90% was submerged, ArchAngel is not destroyed and I think Tännhausers firecontrol did missed bit so ArchAngel is not destroyed, even everybody thinks so. Kira survived Nuclear explosion when Athrun self detonated Aegis in SEED, this situation is similar. Freedom is seemed to be trashed and destroyed and Kira dead but soon he will appear in Strike Freedom. Of course you guys think Kira might have died but Shinns sword did not hit Freedoms cockpit but below it... And If Kira would have died it would have showed it beyond a doubt. Blood gushing out of mouth ( Nichol, Heine etc... ) So, Kira will be back and improved... ArchAngel and Kira survived. That is for sure. Bandai plays for safe and cannot allow that numerous main characters die at this point of story, it would be disaster for marketing and would be quite bad for SEED syndication... Its just classical cliffhanger they used earlier in SEED... ArchAngel and Kira will be back later kicking butts...

[DDBen]

People this is not a thread for random spoilers so stop hinting at mentioning or quoting spoilers to any episode in GSD beyond 34

[qilinkiddo]

the death of shinn family causes him to be sort of loner...
it causes shinn to think/act differently from those with family...family love o.O

he was just a little young 14 years old boy...who have mayu,his father and his mother and their love
living in a world that was filled with happiness
but however...its too sudden that all your family members around you have died in an INSTANT...
its too much for shiinn to handle...causes him to see life negatively...
causing him to see things in hatred instead of understanding/concern/love

shinn actually love orb and have faith in orb when his 14 and orb idealism
shinn parents also believe that they would not got into war as long they r in orb
the hatred against orb was due to his faith and love for orb...
in one episode i do remembing athrun said that something like
shinn blaming on orb aint it because of the faith shinn put in orb

the only way to prevent stellar from dying is to return stellar back to EAF...
and when you saw your love ones dying...you would not consider what would she do in the future...
the only thing you think off is whether she could stay alive for now

the only thing shinn tries to protect is stellar...
stellar causes a big change in shinn for the first time that shinn actually tried to protect someone...
also its true that kira killedied to fire and killed three towns o stellar only because stellar trf civilians and who can say its wrong

but its only natural that you blame the one who causes her death directly(your love ones) somemore
when your love ones death, i dont believe you would be bother to consider who kill her indirectly
but you would hate and wants to kill the one who causes her/his death directly thus its kira

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: qilinkiddo
the only way to prevent stellar from dying is to return stellar back to EAF...
and when you saw your love ones dying...you would not consider what would she do in the future...
the only thing you think off is whether she could stay alive for now

Actually Shinn was mearly hoping by giving Stellar back to Neo that someone else would protect her as he is simply not the kind of guy who protects anything. Unless you can give me a better reason for him giving Neo that shiney thing Stellar gave him. This was a action made by Shinn to forget about Stellar and move on with his revenge. The fact before Stellar was put in Destroy that her memory was not altered and that she was allowed to wear the thingy as a pendant is a really wierd move that Neo made considering it would obviously be capable of downgrading her ability to use destroy VS the Minerva which at the current time is the Flagship of Zaft.

This is the main reason why I have previously stated that Shinn was not trying to protect Stellar with his actions. If Shinn had kept the pendant and recalled that he was fighting so people wouldn't have to suffer like Stellar has.

[qilinkiddo]

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: qilinkiddo
the only way to prevent stellar from dying is to return stellar back to EAF...
and when you saw your love ones dying...you would not consider what would she do in the future...
the only thing you think off is whether she could stay alive for now

Actually Shinn was mearly hoping by giving Stellar back to Neo that someone else would protect her as he is simply not the kind of guy who protects anything. Unless you can give me a better reason for him giving Neo that shiney thing Stellar gave him. This was a action made by Shinn to forget about Stellar and move on with his revenge. The fact before Stellar was put in Destroy that her memory was not altered and that she was allowed to wear the thingy as a pendant is a really wierd move that Neo made considering it would obviously be capable of downgrading her ability to use destroy VS the Minerva which at the current time is the Flagship of Zaft.

This is the main reason why I have previously stated that Shinn was not trying to protect Stellar with his actions. If Shinn had kept the pendant and recalled that he was fighting so people wouldn't have to suffer like Stellar has.

the revenge you mean is?

the only thing he could only do since he was not medical expert even if he is...ZAFT did not have the technology to prevent stellar from dying...stated by others and the fact that stellar was dying...he could only think of the easiest way out which might let stellar stay alive was to return her to neo...

shinn have feelings for stellar as a big brother/crush...
but i think its rather big brother as when stellar died...the mayu thingy was showed

[PSJ]

Okay DDBen we know that you don't like Shinn but that doesn't make him totally selfish and revenge driven. I don't know what you are trying to pull with your posts, maybe a Shinn bashing marathon? We get it already you hate the guy, okey!

He gave Stellar back to Neo because he thought that was the best solution at the moment. How would Shinn know that Neo was going to put Stellar into a new unit and make her fight again? It was better to give her back to Neo and hope that he kept his promise since the other alternative was to let her be killed and used by ZAFT. While im at it i'll say that Shinn had no idea that Neo's Windam was the only operational suit on the EAF ship so he couldn't just have gone there and taken the necessary equipment to keep Stellar alive and leave.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: PSJ
Okay DDBen we know that you don't like Shinn but that doesn't make him totally selfish and revenge driven. I don't know what you are trying to pull with your posts, maybe a Shinn bashing marathon? We get it already you hate the guy, okey!

He gave Stellar back to Neo because he thought that was the best solution at the moment. How would Shinn know that Neo was going to put Stellar into a new unit and make her fight again? It was better to give her back to Neo and hope that he kept his promise since the other alternative was to let her be killed and used by ZAFT. While im at it i'll say that Shinn had no idea that Neo's Windam was the only operational suit on the EAF ship so he couldn't just have gone there and taken the necessary equipment to keep Stellar alive and leave.

Nope he didn't know that for a fact but he also didn't even try to do it. That is meerly one of several things he could have attempted. Also PSJ give me a reason he gave her the thingy in the jar when he gave her back. The first time they meet she gave it to him and he kept it hoping to see her again. When on the other hand he gave her back to Neo he passed off everything that could remind him of her.

Also for the love of all that is holy people I don't like Shinn's characters actions in the anime but I do not hate the guys writing. I personally couldn't care less if he lives or dies I'm simply stating how I interpret the meaning behind his actions at any given time. I don't have Kira plushies all over my room for me to hug and Shinn ones to take out back and shoot. Also PSJ you have stated my EXACT position on Shinn, in the thread about the theory of Shinn haters VS Kira Lovers, word for word of the one I've stated.

Shinns character remains completely driven by revenge what he's avenging has changed from time to time but in the end his only motivation is to avange and in no way protect anything.

edit: I mentioned the wrong thread up above and changed it to the correct one.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: DDBen
Also PSJ give me a reason he gave her the thingy in the jar when he gave her back.

i'm not PSJ but i will give a reason
ever considered the fact he gave to her in the hope that it would help her remind him?
he also said that "she liked it" to Neo when he gave it to her
plus the fact that he added "don't forget about me" right before he ran back to his MS and whiping the tears from his eyes

also DDBen, it's funny how every 3rd or 4th post of you is the almost the same
the phrase "i don't like his actions but i don't dislike the way he's written" comes up every single time
don't you think we know you think that way after 4 times?

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Motteh

Originally posted by: DDBen
Also PSJ give me a reason he gave her the thingy in the jar when he gave her back.

i'm not PSJ but i will give a reason
ever considered the fact he gave to her in the hope that it would help her remind him?
he also said that "she liked it" to Neo when he gave it to her
plus the fact that he added "don't forget about me" right before he ran back to his MS and whiping the tears from his eyes

also DDBen, it's funny how every 3rd or 4th post of you is the almost the same
the phrase "i don't like his actions but i don't dislike the way he's written" comes up every single time
don't you think we know you think that way after 4 times?

Nope actually I don't see that reasoning as valid at all as last time he gave her something aka the hankerchief that she was holding onto after there first meeting she was brain wiped and it was taken away.

please read MeroTZ post above yours as it is well written and also states many of the points I have made quite well perhaps in a much better organised way then I have managed at a few point.

Also the reason I have repeated myself in such a manor is because of certain close minded morons who keep accusing everyone who disagree's with them of having a hatred of Shinn and love of Kira.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: DDBen
please read MeroTZ post above yours as it is well written and also states many of the points I have made quite well perhaps in a much better organised way then I have managed at a few point.

Also the reason I have repeated myself in such a manor is because of certain close minded morons who keep accusing everyone who disagree's with them of having a hatred of Shinn and love of Kira.

my post and MeroTZ's were written around the same time
and i considered it well written but just like yours i can't fully agree with them

and you say you repeated yourself because of "closed minded morons who keep accusing everyone who disagree's with them of having a hatred of Shinn and a love of Kira"
but as you are not fond of the things Shinn does in the show
then why are you defending people who are defending Shinn?
atleast that's how the bold line should be interpreted in my opinion

[PSJ]

The fact that you think someone that is desperately trying to save a loved ones life is capable of thinking clearly just shows how much thought you gave this. Shinn for the first time in his life since his beloved sister and family died had someone he loved and "loved" him back. This made him do what he did he tried his best to save her, he is a 16 year old boy not god. Everybody does mistakes and questionable things.

As for the post i did, first of all it's in this discussion. Second with that post i think it clearly states that he cares about Stellar enough to do something totally against the army code. However i do agree that it supports your thoughts a little to much, i dislike Shinn like shit on my shoe. That could be the reason why that post came out the way it did, which was the wrong way.

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: PSJ
The fact that you think someone that is desperately trying to save a loved ones life is capable of thinking clearly just shows how much thought you gave this. Shinn for the first time in his life since his beloved sister and family died had someone he loved and "loved" him back. This made him do what he did he tried his best to save her, he is a 16 year old boy not god. Everybody does mistakes and questionable things.

As for the post i did, first of all it's in this discussion. Second with that post i think it clearly states that he cares about Stellar enough to do something totally against the army code. However i do agree that it supports your thoughts a little to much, i dislike Shinn like shit on my shoe. That could be the reason why that post came out the way it did, which was the wrong way.

I have absolutely no disagreement what so ever that Shinn's actions were all he could come up with doing. Arguing that it was anything less then routine for Shinn to disobey direct orders is absolutely pointless as the guy does nothing he's told reguardless of who outranks him. Exactly what I'm saying is Shinn when he gave her to Neo absolutely wanted to believe that she would go off to a bunny farm to live a life without war. However, I don't think there was a romantic love between Stellar and Shinn much more a brother sister vibe. In my world Stellars love interest always was Neo not Shinn and that she cared about Shinn in the way you would look upto a big brother who protects you from harm. The point that is once he gave back Stellar Shinn expected never to see her again he was also doing his best to forget about it and was trying to convince himself that she would goto said "bunny farm". This line of thinking that Stellar, who is nothing more then a tool of war as she can not live without drugs and was made that way only to fight, would never have to fight again however is very childish and naive. This just shows the immaturity of his character. The point is this move nomatter where Stellar ended up was made so that he could forget about her because he didn't want to admit to himself he was not strong enough or capable enough to do what he would need to in order to truely protect her. Then the fact he blames Kira for killing her and not himself or Neo. I don't think anyone can disagree Kira is at best third in line for the death of Stellar.

[Terracosmo]

I wonder if there's anyone here who actually thinks DDBen's Shinn theories make sense.

[MeroTZ]

Originally posted by: Terracosmo
I wonder if there's anyone here who actually thinks DDBen's Shinn theories make sense.

I find it hard to believe you guys have such a hard time making sense of them. While they might be a bit extreme, they are certainly a valid pyschological assesment of Shinn's actions.

Dont forget, Shinn is 16. he's a child. And Children dont really have the greatest grasp on huge emotional issues. He started being screwed up beyond belief the moment his family died and he didn't (survivors guilt, anyone?). His next action, joining up with the one military group who wasn't involved in his loss, isn't exactly the most rational choice.

When he met Stelllar.... well, what could he be thinking? He rescues a pretty girl, who seems confused and scared. One who takes her clothes off in front of him. What is he supposed to be thinking at this point. Stellar was an emotional three year old, and I find it hard to argue differently. While she likes Shinn, I bet she would have liked any fireman or rescue worker who pulled her out of the ocean, told her everything was fine, and that they were going ot protect her just as well. Shinn is just attracted to the fact that she genuinely likes him (and she does).

When Shinn passes Stellar back to Neo, it is a bit of a Copout. He knows he cant protect her, so he passes her off to someone who can. He knows she is probably going ot be jsut as abused by the EAF (he saw what they did to the Extended in those labs, rememeber? I dont Imagine it was any better than what ZAFT had in Store), so he makes Neo make a promise that he (Shinn) knows Neo cant keep. To make himself feel better. Amazingly enough, Neo apparently does try to keep his promise, by putting Stellar in Destroy (better than Chaos... I dont believe Stellar was the better candidate than Sting, I think Neo wanted her to be safe). Notice, more evidence of Stellars 3 year old emotional personality. "Scary things are coming, and we are all gonna die if Stellar doesn't kill them" is the type of thing you'd tell a 3 year old with a gun, not a soldier.

Then, when Stellar dies, Shinn doesn't try to come to terms with the fact that his hesitation costed innocent lives. The fact that Stellar, whom he was trying to protect, was now a murderer of hundreds of thousands of people. Or that, had he not given stellar back to the EAF, millions would not now be forced from their homes and likely to die from a lack of food, shelter, and god knows what else.

No, he decides to blame Kira for Stellars death.

It seems to me that Shinn is incapable of taking responsibilty for his actions, and that hasn't changed at any point in the series.

Oh well, dont take this as Shinn bashing, because to me its not. I think the fact that such an in depth pyschological evaluation of Shinn is possible is a testament to how well his character is written, and in my mind that is how characters are first judged. The fact that I hate the character comes much later in the evaluation.

Kefka was an asshole, but I still think he was the coolest damned villain of all time.

[Jurojin]

We've only had, what, 2 episodes after her death? So far he's been concentrating on Kira. Now that Kira is out of the picture (as far as he knows) MAYBE he'll reflect on things. You people aren't even giving him a chance.


He gave Stellar the shell peice to help her remember him- matter of fact, that was what he said when he did give her to Neo.



I just find this "He could have stolen equipment" line to be utter crap. Shinn is NOT a medical scientist- he would have less of a clue than any of you on what would be needed to keep her alive, and none of you can honestly say what would be needed for her.


Saying it's a copout to give Stellar to people that can keep her alive is utterly heartless, especially in Shinn's case. Leaving her on the Minerva to die was not an option: If it were someone YOU cared for, would you just sit there and watch her writhe and twist and gasp from all the pain and suffering her body was going through? Or would you give her the ONLY chance, no matter how remote, at living she had?

This is even more compounded for Shinn, since he's already had his entire family wiped out in front of him. Leaving her to die scared and in pain is as horrifying to him as it should be to any sane person.