You're right about that. I don't count this one as a victory. If Kira had fought to kill Shinn he wouldn't be there right now. I can't wait til the rematch.
You're right about that. I don't count this one as a victory. If Kira had fought to kill Shinn he wouldn't be there right now. I can't wait til the rematch.
I sure Kira jumps form his mobile suit at the last minute. If you notice he raises his shield to block his cockpit , but Kira should know that it won't stop the blade. It will give him time to dive out and make everyone think he's dead though.
Shinn is a mental case, it's as simple as that... He thinks that by killing all "enemies" he will be doing the right thing toward his family (or himself in avenging them or something as stupid as that). He does feel better by killing his enemy because it sooths the pain of the ones he loved that died... It is common sence that people feel better when they are avenged. Shinn has just taken this to a totally different level by blaming everyone that steps on his toes and everyone that is an opposing party to what army he is fighting with...Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.
@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.
I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.
I would not want Shinn to join Kira and AA because he is such a mental case that he would destroy everything they are working for by going berserk every time he step out on the field of battle.
Kira and Lacus met Shinn earlier in the show on Orb before Zaft was expelled. The only reason Shinn won that battle was he a Rey did there homework and used the tactic that Kira doesn't kll to their advantage, not to mention his endless supply of gundam parts. Next battle he won't be so lucky.
By the way, Shinn doesn't know who Kira is, he only blames the "Freedom pilot" for his misery. When they met, they were all buddy like. Kira might be Shinn's mentor (although I recent that idea). Kira is too good for Shinn.
I take ur challenge and here's the example. Remember way back when Athrun just came back to zaft and Shinn didnt listen to Athrun's orders and destroyed the base(earth alliance's I think) and saved the men who were forced to work there by pulling away the fence so they could go back to their families. And then Athrun yelled at him for not obeying his orders. You should look at how Shinn became a zaft pilot. It started when his family was killed because of war. Now he is out to get all those who is trying to start wars. Look at his face when destroy was destroying cities and killing innocent people when he didnt know stellar was piloting it. Was he enjoying that? Nope, he was saying why would anyone want to do that. As for killing everyone that is fighting against zaft, well that's his job. He is a soldier afterall. But he does seem like a maniac taking revenge on ppl who has hurted him (kinda like Sasuke in Naruto).Originally posted by: DDBen
Shinn had that face because he was celebrating avenging Stellar in his head.Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.
@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.
I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.
However, Terra I'm afraid that Shinn does enjoy killing to a certain degree. He certainly doesn't kill to protect anything instead he kills out of vengence every time. He didn't attempt to actually protect Stellar first dumping her on Neo and then standing there as Kira disabled destroy. In fact I can't think of a single time Shinn has ever fought to protect anything even when the Minerva has been attacked he has chosen to fight head on rather then to actually prevent the Minerva from taking damage. When they attempted to leave orb he simply got ticked off at the EA fleet and took the opertunity to get revenge for damaging his ego. When he saw the EA base being built and the civilians were being oppressed he took it upon himself to simply kill everyone in sight and take no prisoners not in fact choosing to protect the people from the possible shrapnel that he caused by shooting everything in site pointlessly.
I challenge you to give a single example where Shinns actions were purely for the purpose of protecting anything.
you should read my reply on the 10th page. Tactic does not mean luck, it means using ur brain btw and that was smart of him to use his impulse effectively since its not as good as freedom.Originally posted by: valkirie19
Kira and Lacus met Shinn earlier in the show on Orb before Zaft was expelled. The only reason Shinn won that battle was he a Rey did there homework and used the tactic that Kira doesn't kll to their advantage, not to mention his endless supply of gundam parts. Next battle he won't be so lucky.
you should count the number of times Kira cried in GS, I can promise you its at least as much as Shinn did if not more. And that fight where Kira and Athrun fought was because they both killed each other's friend so they both gone really mad at each other so I dont see how it was different xcept for the fact that none of their frds destroyed cities.Originally posted by: valkirie19
Not to mention he's always crying about losing a family member or friend. What about everyone else in the show, Kira, Fley,Cagali,Athrun, Lacus. They never went off the deep end like Shinn has. Kira and Athrun did fight to the death against each other in GS, but not for reasons like Shinn. I 'm sorry but their friends weren't out commiting genocide on whole cities.
I dont even think they were like buddies at all. It was the first and only time they met so it was more like strangers talking to each other politly. I wonder why they show that flashback of them meeting though cause I doubt Shinn knows who is piloting freedom...Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
By the way, Shinn doesn't know who Kira is, he only blames the "Freedom pilot" for his misery. When they met, they were all buddy like. Kira might be Shinn's mentor (although I recent that idea). Kira is too good for Shinn.
He definitely was in seed mode the whole time but he doesn't fight as hard as crybaby Shinn, and doesn't have as many girlish acessoriesas Shinn is a barbie doll for Gundam. Not to mention he's always crying about losing a family member or friend. What about everyone else in the show, Kira, Fley,Cagali,Athrun, Lacus. They never went off the deep end like Shinn has. Kira and Athrun did fight to the death against each other in GS, but not for reasons like Shinn. I 'm sorry but their friends weren't out commiting genocide on whole cities.
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.
Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.
Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.
Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.
War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.
Shinn just wanted to be the "hero". It made him feel like he was almighty and powerful and better than everyone else.Originally posted by: heero
I take ur challenge and here's the example. Remember way back when Athrun just came back to zaft and Shinn didnt listen to Athrun's orders and destroyed the base(earth alliance's I think) and saved the men who were forced to work there by pulling away the fence so they could go back to their families. And then Athrun yelled at him for not obeying his orders. You should look at how Shinn became a zaft pilot. It started when his family was killed because of war. Now he is out to get all those who is trying to start wars. Look at his face when destroy was destroying cities and killing innocent people when he didnt know stellar was piloting it. Was he enjoying that? Nope, he was saying why would anyone want to do that. But he does seem like a maniac taking revenge on ppl who has hurted him (kinda like Sasuke in Naruto).Originally posted by: DDBen
Shinn had that face because he was celebrating avenging Stellar in his head.Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.
@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.
I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.
However, Terra I'm afraid that Shinn does enjoy killing to a certain degree. He certainly doesn't kill to protect anything instead he kills out of vengence every time. He didn't attempt to actually protect Stellar first dumping her on Neo and then standing there as Kira disabled destroy. In fact I can't think of a single time Shinn has ever fought to protect anything even when the Minerva has been attacked he has chosen to fight head on rather then to actually prevent the Minerva from taking damage. When they attempted to leave orb he simply got ticked off at the EA fleet and took the opertunity to get revenge for damaging his ego. When he saw the EA base being built and the civilians were being oppressed he took it upon himself to simply kill everyone in sight and take no prisoners not in fact choosing to protect the people from the possible shrapnel that he caused by shooting everything in site pointlessly.
I challenge you to give a single example where Shinns actions were purely for the purpose of protecting anything.
and Shinn is NOT trying to stop the people who are starting wars. [Where did you get this insane idea from anyways?] He just wants revenge, and to "destroy the enemy"[If he continues this, the war will NEVER stop...unless they blow up Earth.] Shin is one of the one's keeping the war going. He refuses to see that anyone but himself has been hurt, and the pain and suffering he must have caused countless families because of his stupid, yet militaristic thoughts.
[To other people on this forum: Please forgive me if I sound like I'm just repeating your thoughts and stuff. I'll find the quotes and stuff if it's that big a deal.]
I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.
Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.
Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.
Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.
War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.
Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.
Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.
Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.
Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.
War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.
Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.
Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)
No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.
>>>>I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.<<<<
Not done anything wrong? His smile after defeating Freedom shows that what he does is wrong, not by orders, but because he does it for the wrong reasons... If it would have been Athrun he would have done it reluctlantly but still follow his orders, he would not grin and go out to battle just waiting to kill someone... And when Shinn has been jumping from ship to ship killing of EAF and ORB forces that were pulling back. "Hell yeah", that is the correct actions to take. Following orders and following orders isn't the same thing when one does it with a smile on his face and the other with pain.
So what makes/made Kira and the AA crew different? Why were they able to see things from the leaders point of view, and act on what they felt was right? Why doesn't anyone else see it that way? What makes people follow orders without hesitation, or when they know it's wrong?
Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
So what makes/made Kira and the AA crew different? Why were they able to see things from the leaders point of view, and act on what they felt was right? Why doesn't anyone else see it that way? What makes people follow orders without hesitation, or when they know it's wrong?
??? Have you watched GS?
Kira has been fighting for everyone and no one always. He fights to end battles, in every battle he has made an apperance, it has been to stop EAF, Orb and ZAFT from fighting, you might say that he and AA is the mother between two brothers fighting... No one gives him or AA the right except that they fight for both EAF and for ZAFT just like a mother does... ZAFT fights to destroy brother nr 1 and EAS fights to destroy nr 2... So Mother has to protect them both from doing the wrong thing, and she might get a kick or two for doing the right thing, but eventually, they'll all see it mothers way and stop fighting.
That is the difference oh ignorant one
Man, these ep discussion threads are getting long.... But a guess this ep deserves it. Very fun. I loved the scene with the AA turning a corner and running right into their enemy was great, and I liked the ships' near miss too. Shinn and Kira's fight did not disappoint either. Shinn knew Kira would go for the arms and legs, so he just arranged to have them replaced and kept on fighting. I like how at the end Kira realized that his suit was too damaged and Shinn was still in good shape, He knew he was going to lose and was like "No! not here!"
And after this ep I've decided to join the "Shinn is evil" side (note, this is different from the "I hate Shinn" group, 'cause actually I think he's ok, just evil). There have been a lot of hints here and there, his ignoring Athrun's warnings to spare civilians while fighting, his irrational obsession with revenge, his evil giggle after shooting down Kira (really, he's got to work on that laugh), but, mainly, its his red eyes and evil eyebrows. I mean, just look at that expression. There's no way a guy with eyebrows like that could be a good guy
When you reply to what I say you should actually read wat I say before you ask how I got my ideas because I just wrote a whole paragraph that answers ur question. Rather it would be a good question to ask where you get the idea that Shinn just wants to be a hero. Did you not see Shinn's response to Dullindal's speach about defeating the Logo's and end war finally. He was smiling. Why would Shinn want more war so he could be a hero and kill everyone when his family and friend died because of it? Yes maybe he's becoming more ignorant because of his success over time but still doesnt mean that he's doing all of this just to be a hero. Also you should rewatch that episode where Shinn made a long speach with Dullindal way back when Haine made his first appearance. It totally supports my opinion and answers your question of "where I get my "insane" idea from". I think it was insane of you say Shinn is the one keeping the war going because he is only a soldier. If the leader of zaft didnt give any orders to fight, do you think any of this would be the same?Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
Shinn just wanted to be the "hero". It made him feel like he was almighty and powerful and better than everyone else.Originally posted by: heero
I take ur challenge and here's the example. Remember way back when Athrun just came back to zaft and Shinn didnt listen to Athrun's orders and destroyed the base(earth alliance's I think) and saved the men who were forced to work there by pulling away the fence so they could go back to their families. And then Athrun yelled at him for not obeying his orders. You should look at how Shinn became a zaft pilot. It started when his family was killed because of war. Now he is out to get all those who is trying to start wars. Look at his face when destroy was destroying cities and killing innocent people when he didnt know stellar was piloting it. Was he enjoying that? Nope, he was saying why would anyone want to do that. But he does seem like a maniac taking revenge on ppl who has hurted him (kinda like Sasuke in Naruto).Originally posted by: DDBen
Shinn had that face because he was celebrating avenging Stellar in his head.Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Shinn had a "maniac face" because he was happy, no more no less.
@Shinji: WTF are you smoking? Since when does Shinn like killing? He does it to protect and save stuff, he isn't a fucking bloodthirsty nutcase.
I still say many of you let your hatred for Shinn cloud your judgement over what's happening in the show.
However, Terra I'm afraid that Shinn does enjoy killing to a certain degree. He certainly doesn't kill to protect anything instead he kills out of vengence every time. He didn't attempt to actually protect Stellar first dumping her on Neo and then standing there as Kira disabled destroy. In fact I can't think of a single time Shinn has ever fought to protect anything even when the Minerva has been attacked he has chosen to fight head on rather then to actually prevent the Minerva from taking damage. When they attempted to leave orb he simply got ticked off at the EA fleet and took the opertunity to get revenge for damaging his ego. When he saw the EA base being built and the civilians were being oppressed he took it upon himself to simply kill everyone in sight and take no prisoners not in fact choosing to protect the people from the possible shrapnel that he caused by shooting everything in site pointlessly.
I challenge you to give a single example where Shinns actions were purely for the purpose of protecting anything.
and Shinn is NOT trying to stop the people who are starting wars. [Where did you get this insane idea from anyways?] He just wants revenge, and to "destroy the enemy"[If he continues this, the war will NEVER stop...unless they blow up Earth.] Shin is one of the one's keeping the war going. He refuses to see that anyone but himself has been hurt, and the pain and suffering he must have caused countless families because of his stupid, yet militaristic thoughts.
[To other people on this forum: Please forgive me if I sound like I'm just repeating your thoughts and stuff. I'll find the quotes and stuff if it's that big a deal.]
Some people believe in honor and some people believe in duty. Some believe in both. There are others besides the AA and her crew that share these views that they do. Talia for one has sympathies for the AA as shown in 34. Even Todoka but he was duty bound to listen to that pussy Yuna. The EAF saluting Todoka going down in the ship. Honor, Duty, Pride, Selfishness. We get all of these from different angles.
Shinn is totally fed up with himself now as the best pilot. He probably thinks he can walk on water. That smug ass look he had as they approached the AA and he was getting ready to launch. I just can't wait till he is in trouble fighting some enemy when all of a sudden Strike Freedom comes in with Kira or something blowing the weapon up saving Shinn. Utter and total humiliation for Shinn. But first I want to see Athrun slap the shit out of him a few times when Shinn gets back on the Minerva.
I never said anything about "by law." Try looking past your own face and see the reality of the situation. Baka.Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.
Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)
No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.
*breathe* I was not saying his actions are right and just. I never did. What I WAS saying, and people seem to stupidly ignore this whenever the topic comes up, is that NOBODY is bound by the same code of ethics, the same sense of right and wrong, as other people. Just because you think it's wrong of him to do the things he does, doesn't mean he has to think that way. In his mind, he feels he's doing the right thing: fighting LOGOS and the people responsible for the pain Stellar had through her life (experimentation crap), fighting the one he sees as responsible for the death of his comrades and loved ones (right or not).
No, everyone does NOT have to be rational. It would be nice, it would make the world a better place, but nobody HAS to do it. You're showing your naivety, and your Kira-loving and pro-Shinn-bashing, by taking this stance.
No one gives him or AA the rightOriginally posted by: Shinji Ikari
Originally posted by: Digitalgirl
So what makes/made Kira and the AA crew different? Why were they able to see things from the leaders point of view, and act on what they felt was right? Why doesn't anyone else see it that way? What makes people follow orders without hesitation, or when they know it's wrong?
??? Have you watched GS?
Kira has been fighting for everyone and no one always. He fights to end battles, in every battle he has made an apperance, it has been to stop EAF, Orb and ZAFT from fighting, you might say that he and AA is the mother between two brothers fighting... No one gives him or AA the right except that they fight for both EAF and for ZAFT just like a mother does... ZAFT fights to destroy brother nr 1 and EAS fights to destroy nr 2... So Mother has to protect them both from doing the wrong thing, and she might get a kick or two for doing the right thing, but eventually, they'll all see it mothers way and stop fighting.
That is the difference oh ignorant one
That depends on your def. of "right". What gives Zaft and the EAF the "right" to go to war and to kill each other?
Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
Originally posted by: Jurojin
@valkirie19: I'll ignore the pointless/idiotic Shinn bashing to get to an actual point you made: Kira, Athrun, Lacus, etc have all suffered loss from war. Why does Shinn have any right to act differently than they did? Simple: He's not them.
Everybody, you, me, the dog, the cat, everybody and everything handles stress and loss very different ways. Some cry it out, some exercise it out, some work past the loss, and then there are those who choose to look for some way of making it right, to make their own pain go away, and a million other ways to cope with loss.
Shinn is one of the last set. He has this very large pain of loss still, and in his mind, the only way to fix this loss is force.
Also, you mentioned Fllay as "not going off the deep end-" What the hell version of GS did you watch? She's as bad as Shinn in the respect that instead of working past her loss of her father and feeling betrayed by Kira, she decided to manipulate and mind-screw Kira over. Because her sense of revenge told her that the only way to fix the loss was to do what she did.
War changes people in many many ways, and for the simple fact that Shinn is not Kira, or Athrun, or Cagalli, Shinn can react to war and loss however feels right to him.
Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.
Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)
No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.
>>>>I agree and its not like Shinn has done anything wrong. He was just doing his job following orders. When it comes to wars, it is not the soldiers who are wrong, it is the leaders who lead them into wars are.<<<<
Not done anything wrong? His smile after defeating Freedom shows that what he does is wrong, not by orders, but because he does it for the wrong reasons... If it would have been Athrun he would have done it reluctlantly but still follow his orders, he would not grin and go out to battle just waiting to kill someone... And when Shinn has been jumping from ship to ship killing of EAF and ORB forces that were pulling back. "Hell yeah", that is the correct actions to take. Following orders and following orders isn't the same thing when one does it with a smile on his face and the other with pain.
Yeah, everyone has his own etics and reactions, but after that? One has to take control of his life to realize that his behaviour up til that point has been wrong.Originally posted by: Jurojin
I never said anything about "by law." Try looking past your own face and see the reality of the situation. Baka.Originally posted by: Shinji Ikari
Yeah, and some people goes mad and kill everyone he thinks is wrong without knowing anything about anything or anyone. He has a twisted sence of justice and prooves it by doing stupid things over and over again on the battle field.
Come on, so you mean that by law, if a persons relative or close friend is killed, the person has the right to go around avenging the loved one? Why do you think we have laws against those kinds of things nowaday? (Because some countries didn't always have laws like that but actually encouraged revenge for the justification of the familys honor)
No, everyone has to grab themselves by the balls and pull themselves back to reality, because no matter what, doing things for the reasons that Shinn is doing them, that is just wrong, and we all see that he is a nut-case in every action he takes.
*breathe* I was not saying his actions are right and just. I never did. What I WAS saying, and people seem to stupidly ignore this whenever the topic comes up, is that NOBODY is bound by the same code of ethics, the same sense of right and wrong, as other people. Just because you think it's wrong of him to do the things he does, doesn't mean he has to think that way. In his mind, he feels he's doing the right thing: fighting LOGOS and the people responsible for the pain Stellar had through her life (experimentation crap), fighting the one he sees as responsible for the death of his comrades and loved ones (right or not).
No, everyone does NOT have to be rational. It would be nice, it would make the world a better place, but nobody HAS to do it. You're showing your naivety, and your Kira-loving and pro-Shinn-bashing, by taking this stance.
>>>No one gives him or AA the right
That depends on your def. of "right". What gives Zaft and the EAF the "right" to go to war and to kill each other?<<<
No, they gave themselves the right to interfere because they know that what they are doing is to help end the war, it doesn't really help that EAF and ZAFt is throwing in more guns in the fire to make it pop even louder. Dullindal claims to be fighting for justice, Logos also claims to fight for justice... So why is everyone fighting? This is stupid... The only reason AA started fighting was because Zaft and EAF started fighting, thus, AA can't be wrong because they aren't taking sides but fighting for both... Kira has saved countless by shooting a lot of MS down and he has also saved the Minerva, Orb military... He saves lives that EAF and ZAFT is destroying...
No one gave him the right or told him this is what you need to do. He and AA tries to save everyone withour trying to gain anything from this war whilst both EAF and ZAFT leaders are trying to gain something.. The ones who does something without thinking of themselves must be the ones that are correct when trying to save something. Because they all claim that is what they want.
Why is it weak?Originally posted by: heero
Saying that it is wrong to follow orders with a smile on his face but it would be right for Kira to do the same with a sad face (I know he hasnt in GSD but he did in GS) is abit weak of an arguement. I still dont think it is wrong for what Shinn has done so far but rather he is turning to a maniac you could say.
And that exactly what is so wrong with Shinn, he is mad, he is insane and needs help. Which one would you rather have, a person who just loves to shoot people or the one who does it because he is told to?
My argument is not weak because it is based upon how actions and war are born... With people like Shinn, war could never end and with people like Kira war is fought for everyone to end with the smallest amount of damage... That is where the difference in following an order with a smile and with a sad face changes so much.
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