Episode 32 Discussion "spoilers"

[darkshadow]

no it was kira, he just wanted archangel to capture him, thats y you c murrue and crew standing there

[heero]

Originally posted by: DDBen

Originally posted by: FelixZeroAlastor
This is for all of you people who hate Shinn. DON'T. He is at that point in time where he questions what he is fighting for. His purpose and reasons for fighting. If Asuran has a heart to heart talk with Shinn and doesn't say something stupid they both may learn something. Shinn is a good person. He is just a good person with some mental issues. I would be a bit cocky too if eveyone around me got shot down and I had the only surviving suit. As for taking Stellar away... well it was better than just having her disected while suffering on a ship where he could only watch and do nothing to help thus breaking the promise that he made with his woman. Shinn was also justified to get mad when Cagalli started to spout her crap. To me it was even better that he shot at her.

I personally don't like Kira in this series. All he does is go into battles gun happy. Stellar's death is his fault anyways. Why you ask. HE WAS THERE THATS WHY! If Kira wasn't there then Stellar wouldn't have had to have died there.

Also Kira didn't have to stab Destroy. There are so many differtent ways that he could havehandeled that.

I'm still not positive what series your watching here in the slightest. Lets see Kira as not killed a single person in GSD and I'm sorry but you can't prove otherwise as there isn't a single example of this at all. As far as Kira could have taken out Destroy in a differn't way? What on earth are you talking about he stabbed it and that managed to take out the suit without doing killing Stellar. I still see absolutely no way she died from the injuries she sustained in the fight. My assumption is currently she is just passed out or else Shinn is carrying around a corpse for next episode. As for what Shinn is fighting for he isn't confused at all the only thing he has ever fought for is himself all he's doing is seeking revenge and killing everyone he see's.

Now as a side note Stellar just killed hundreds of thousands of people taking out 4 cities including Berlin is not something anyone no matter why has any right to be forgiven for. She didn't end the war she just made things worse and killed tons of innocent people and heck likely created a few more Shinn's to boot.

I think you are wrong about Shinn wanting to kill everyone because he was totally mad when Stellar destroyed the city and everyone in it. He just wants to kill everyone that wants to start war since it was the war that caused his family's death after all. If your loved ones died one after another I think you would be as angry as he is.

Originally posted by: darkshadow
no it was kira, he just wanted archangel to capture him, thats y you c murrue and crew standing there

o really...I dont see how Kira could of shot him with his back facing him as he flew by...

[PTX-003C]

Originally posted by: telemari
did that old man also said I love you?

that's not even "i love you"
it was just "shinn, suki"
it's very clear that stellar doesn't have the knewledge of "love"
it's just meaning "shinn, like"

[PSJ]

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: darkshadow
no it was kira, he just wanted archangel to capture him, thats y you c murrue and crew standing there

o really...I dont see how Kira could of shot him with his back facing him as he flew by...

then check it again its clearly kira who is doing it. its the same as when he flew past impusle and chopped of its arm in a flash. he did a spinn and shot neo down while spinning.

[Motteh]

Originally posted by: heero
Destroy turned out not so great afterall since it did nothing but destroyed cities.

well if you just take a look at what the size of Destroy was
it would've been pretty useless against anything except large groups of enemies or bases/cities
just not accurate and manouverable enough to be able to find 1 on 1 against a decent suit with a decent pilot

[XwingRob]

I'm curious if ZAFT is gonna come up with their own version of Gundam Fortress...

[darkshadow]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: darkshadow
no it was kira, he just wanted archangel to capture him, thats y you c murrue and crew standing there

o really...I dont see how Kira could of shot him with his back facing him as he flew by...

then check it again its clearly kira who is doing it. its the same as when he flew past impusle and chopped of its arm in a flash. he did a spinn and shot neo down while spinning.

and the gotfried gun ( i think ) shoots beams that are WAAAAY bigger, and simultaniously, kira just flew down, did the spin psj said and shot neo

[masamuneehs]

Originally posted by: Curium
Oh, and I know somebody will mention Kira setting Stellar off after Shinn calmed her down, you can't really blame him for that. He knew nothing about Stellar, and probably didn't know that she couldn't see him. He was just hovering in the sky while Shinn talked to her. He didn't do anything to provoke her (and it wouldn't have provoked 99% of people). He was just there.

In fact, Kira is an idiot for not going all out 100% of the time against Stellar. Anyone who just killed that many defenseless civilians deserves to be killed. The onyl thing that could have saved her would be her getting out of the Destroy. But she'd never do that cuz she's fucking retarded!

Originally posted by: LokeXero

Whats this about "if kira didnt stop destroy shinn wouldnt be around anymore when you think about it". At no point in this episode does Kira save Shinn and more importantly all kira did was antagonise Stellar,Neo and Sting and even you have to admit that, Kira was a great cool guy end of SEED but so far in destiny hes been nothing but an annoyance that fights for his own ideals and disrupts the major players (ZAFT and EA). Maybe there wasnt anything wrong with lingering around when he wasnt needed

Destroy was attacking a ZAFT base, AA responded to the distress call but ultimately Kira and AA should have pulled out when Minerva came along, instead of staying around as they did and things wouldnt have ended as they did meaning we woudnt be having this conversation.

I believe I disagree with everything you just said. Archangel can do whatever the hell they want, they don't need to respect ZAFT's jurisdiction or anything. They wanted to destroy the Destroy before it destroyed more cities, can you blame them for backing up Minerva and giving them the support THEY NEEDED to take Stellar down?

Oh, and Shinn was standing right in front of those giant chest-mounted energy beams. Can't imagine those wouldn't have hurt him much... Nah, not at all. In fact, Stellar would suredly BE CAREFUL TO AIM AROUND SHINN!!! Because she likes him... oh wait, I don't think she aimed more than twice all episode long... And the bitch is crazy. Shinn woulda been scrap without Kira...

Good job Murasame pilots. You suck Sting.

Eat worms Stellar... or rather... worms eat Stellar.

What I want to see next: Deakka returns! Auel revived! Rey goes to the Dark Side after learning in Cloud City that Rau is his father! Kira chokes on a breadstick. Someone jacks that pansy Arthur in the groin to reveal in fact that he has no balls. Shinn cries, some more... Dullindal becomes the Emperor and overthrows the Council! "And it was never painfully obvious that I was evil ! Mwhaha!"
...and a lesbian kiss between Mia Campbell and Lacus.... giggity giggity gig gig giggity All Right!

[masamuneehs]

DDBen, he's carrying her corpse. Bet you $20 on that.

FelixZeroWhatever your name is. Kira is not a guns-blazing guy at all. While I'll agree that the self righteous snot seems to believe he should be the only one with any sort of military firepower, and that he shoots like ten-frickin-laser-beams-at-a-time, he isn't trying to kill or doing anything more than fighting in the way he believes is best. Problem is, he's leaving half the people without any means to defend themselves (thats what happened to Heine) and totally disrespects anyone who believes that they are fighting for something. Kira seems to believe all the battles are stupid and pointless, that they need to be stopped, not finished. He is sick of fighting, disgusted at war, and unable to turn his back on the fight at the same time. He simply believes that he knows what is best for everyone else. God I hope we see the day where he is proved wrong.

[Motteh]

masamuneehs - kira fights for what he believes to be right
but don't ZAFT and EAF do exactly the same thing?
war is about clashing ideals of 2 or more parties
ZAFT and EAF in this case
Kira and company are just trying to do the best they can to stop it before everyone forgets what eventually started the war and thus fight a battle that has no end

now i don't agree they choose the best way to do it
especially because they seriously lack intel and there's no way for us to know that this "Terminal" they do get intel from isn't "colouring" the information they pass
like Azreal and Rau in Seed who both followed their own respective agendas and so supporting both their respective sides and the enemy by deliberately leaking intel

Originally posted by: XwingRob
I'm curious if ZAFT is gonna come up with their own version of Gundam Fortress...

i don't see this happening really
because apart from the ridiculously (if that's a word) big G.E.N.E.S.I.S cannon at the end of Seed
ZAFT has always preferred more agile and manouverable machines
for me the reason why they've used mobile suits instead of mobile armors from the start

[XwingRob]

Originally posted by: Motteh

Originally posted by: XwingRob
I'm curious if ZAFT is gonna come up with their own version of Gundam Fortress...

i don't see this happening really
because apart from the ridiculously (if that's a word) big G.E.N.E.S.I.S cannon at the end of Seed
ZAFT has always preferred more agile and manouverable machines
for me the reason why they've used mobile suits instead of mobile armors from the start

Ah, very good point indeed, Motteh.
Well... I'm sure there will be at least one more Gundam Fortress before the series is over...

[heero]

Originally posted by: Pervert-Sennin Jiraiya

Originally posted by: heero

Originally posted by: darkshadow
no it was kira, he just wanted archangel to capture him, thats y you c murrue and crew standing there

o really...I dont see how Kira could of shot him with his back facing him as he flew by...

then check it again its clearly kira who is doing it. its the same as when he flew past impusle and chopped of its arm in a flash. he did a spinn and shot neo down while spinning.

oo ya i see it now

Originally posted by: Motteh

Originally posted by: heero
Destroy turned out not so great afterall since it did nothing but destroyed cities.

well if you just take a look at what the size of Destroy was
it would've been pretty useless against anything except large groups of enemies or bases/cities
just not accurate and manouverable enough to be able to find 1 on 1 against a decent suit with a decent pilot

ya and I think it could of taken out archangel and minerver if Stellar aimed at them. There's no way they could dodged those beams

[masamuneehs]

Originally posted by: Motteh
masamuneehs - kira fights for what he believes to be right
but don't ZAFT and EAF do exactly the same thing?
war is about clashing ideals of 2 or more parties
ZAFT and EAF in this case
Kira and company are just trying to do the best they can to stop it before everyone forgets what eventually started the war and thus fight a battle that has no end

now i don't agree they choose the best way to do it
especially because they seriously lack intel and there's no way for us to know that this "Terminal" they do get intel from isn't "colouring" the information they pass
like Azreal and Rau in Seed who both followed their own respective agendas and so supporting both their respective sides and the enemy by deliberately leaking intel

I do acknowledge that Kira fights for what he believes is right. Same goes for ZAFT and EAF and anybody else. Destiny, and the original Seed too, focus alot on how the politicians and radicals manipulate the public and the soldiers to fight for their (the politicians') agenda. One of the best parts of this series is that it acknowledges that there is a line where "the cause" becomes forgotten and victory becomes both the ends and the means.

My problem is when people try to "stop it before everyone forgets why it started." Firstly, what started this war (my speculation here) is 2 crazy bastards, Djibril and Dullindal, taking advantage of peoples' insecurities and differences, rigging a colony drop and responding with impossible demands on PLANT. These are manipulations, inflaming the people and leading them to believe that a vast majority of "The Enemy" are out to kill them, and that they need to strike back. Or that they are superior because "the other side is so barbaric"

So the cause of the war can be debated as not a very good reason to fight.

Why then do I think that Kira is wrong for stopping it?

1. Its the way he goes about it. I admire protecting innocent civilians (from the Destroy) or trying to reveal to a misled army what their old ideals and motives are all about (Orb). But simply going around on a battlefield and disarming everybody, leaving them virtually defenseless is not the way to stop the war. Its like saying, "if we took away all the guns there would be no war!" People will still fight, with swords or sticks or fists, if they believe its worth fighting over. Taking away a person's ability to defend themself on the battlefield, when you're just one guy and one ship is wrong because you can't disarm everyone. When someone dies because he couldn't fight back (Heine) and you were the one that disarmed him, but not the other guy (he did hit Stellar, but she still had an offensive capability) how is that any better than if he had died in normal combat? Its worse!

2. It's his self-righteousness. Ignoring, for a moment, the fact that the war was caused by radicals, that the cause is fueled by propaganda, Kira is basically stopping everyone for fighting for what THEY believe in. Someone fighting to kill all Coordinators or Naturals is bad if they just go about killing indiscriminetley, but what about people fighting to protect their land, or to free prisoners, or just defending themselves after being attacked? Kira doesn't even question or think about why everyone else is fighting. He disrespects what they're fighting for, doesn't even let them do what he's doing...

3. He is missing the real problem. Cutting up everyone's weapons may end this battle, but what about all the other ones being waged around the world? A stalemate caused by Archangel and Freedom in one spot will most likely lead to a larger deployment of troops on both ZAFT and EAF sides to capture it later. He is creating confusion on the battlefield. He does nothing about the Blue Cosmos' propaganda nor ZAFT's false Lacus. He doesn't try to convince anyone to see it his way, he just blows up their rifle and flies off, leaving them pissed as hell and probably more determined than ever to fight next time.

4. He is practicing a double standard. He goes around with one of the most powerful MS ever, making every Zaku and Dagger into sitting ducks. "Just having the strength, or just wanting to do something, alone they are not enough" Wasn't that a theme from the original Seed? He is taking away from others the only means of expression that he employs to make his impact on the world, to further his cause, power. And he is actually showing both sides that they require MORE power if they ever want to achieve their goals. If you can't take down one friggin Gundam, even if it is the best, then obviously you're not going to win the war because he'll keep showing up and disarming everyone! Plus, the EAF Naturals must view Coordinators as even bigger monsters, even worse threats, after fighting Kira.

He had to kill dozens if not hundreds of people, fight dozens of pointless battles, damn near kill his best friend and nearly die before he started to realize his errors and start ot think they way he does now. He won't allow anyone else to repeat those errors, even though they may be necessary to learn about the horrible side of war.

Oh, and he's too fucking invincible out there (except Shinn scratched him once, maybe once, I believe. And Neo did too in Ep. 32) It pisses me off seeing the "hero" so immortal and so proud and self-righteous.

There, that's my rant. Suck it, suck it dry. Bitches.

[Curium]

Originally posted by: DDBen
Lets see Kira as not killed a single person in GSD and I'm sorry but you can't prove otherwise as there isn't a single example of this at all.

I'm pretty sure he has killed a few Minerva crew members. When he took out the Tannhauser it was fully charged and ready to fire so it caused a rather large explosion. Also in the episode following it looks like body bags in the background in one scene.

Originally posted by: masamuneehs
Problem is, he's leaving half the people without any means to defend themselves (thats what happened to Heine)

To be fair, Heine did not die because he was left without weapons. He died because he turned his back on Gaia. I don't know if he thought it was disabled or not, but Kira was obviously moving on (the stare down with Saviour) and not intending on continueing against Heine. Gaia on the other hand was very much a threat.

[kinggalaxia]

Originally posted by: masamuneehs

Originally posted by: Motteh
masamuneehs - kira fights for what he believes to be right
but don't ZAFT and EAF do exactly the same thing?
war is about clashing ideals of 2 or more parties
ZAFT and EAF in this case
Kira and company are just trying to do the best they can to stop it before everyone forgets what eventually started the war and thus fight a battle that has no end

now i don't agree they choose the best way to do it
especially because they seriously lack intel and there's no way for us to know that this "Terminal" they do get intel from isn't "colouring" the information they pass
like Azreal and Rau in Seed who both followed their own respective agendas and so supporting both their respective sides and the enemy by deliberately leaking intel

I do acknowledge that Kira fights for what he believes is right. Same goes for ZAFT and EAF and anybody else. Destiny, and the original Seed too, focus alot on how the politicians and radicals manipulate the public and the soldiers to fight for their (the politicians') agenda. One of the best parts of this series is that it acknowledges that there is a line where "the cause" becomes forgotten and victory becomes both the ends and the means.

My problem is when people try to "stop it before everyone forgets why it started." Firstly, what started this war (my speculation here) is 2 crazy bastards, Djibril and Dullindal, taking advantage of peoples' insecurities and differences, rigging a colony drop and responding with impossible demands on PLANT. These are manipulations, inflaming the people and leading them to believe that a vast majority of "The Enemy" are out to kill them, and that they need to strike back. Or that they are superior because "the other side is so barbaric"

So the cause of the war can be debated as not a very good reason to fight.

Why then do I think that Kira is wrong for stopping it?

1. Its the way he goes about it. I admire protecting innocent civilians (from the Destroy) or trying to reveal to a misled army what their old ideals and motives are all about (Orb). But simply going around on a battlefield and disarming everybody, leaving them virtually defenseless is not the way to stop the war. Its like saying, "if we took away all the guns there would be no war!" People will still fight, with swords or sticks or fists, if they believe its worth fighting over. Taking away a person's ability to defend themself on the battlefield, when you're just one guy and one ship is wrong because you can't disarm everyone. When someone dies because he couldn't fight back (Heine) and you were the one that disarmed him, but not the other guy (he did hit Stellar, but she still had an offensive capability) how is that any better than if he had died in normal combat? Its worse!

2. It's his self-righteousness. Ignoring, for a moment, the fact that the war was caused by radicals, that the cause is fueled by propaganda, Kira is basically stopping everyone for fighting for what THEY believe in. Someone fighting to kill all Coordinators or Naturals is bad if they just go about killing indiscriminetley, but what about people fighting to protect their land, or to free prisoners, or just defending themselves after being attacked? Kira doesn't even question or think about why everyone else is fighting. He disrespects what they're fighting for, doesn't even let them do what he's doing...

3. He is missing the real problem. Cutting up everyone's weapons may end this battle, but what about all the other ones being waged around the world? A stalemate caused by Archangel and Freedom in one spot will most likely lead to a larger deployment of troops on both ZAFT and EAF sides to capture it later. He is creating confusion on the battlefield. He does nothing about the Blue Cosmos' propaganda nor ZAFT's false Lacus. He doesn't try to convince anyone to see it his way, he just blows up their rifle and flies off, leaving them pissed as hell and probably more determined than ever to fight next time.

4. He is practicing a double standard. He goes around with one of the most powerful MS ever, making every Zaku and Dagger into sitting ducks. "Just having the strength, or just wanting to do something, alone they are not enough" Wasn't that a theme from the original Seed? He is taking away from others the only means of expression that he employs to make his impact on the world, to further his cause, power. And he is actually showing both sides that they require MORE power if they ever want to achieve their goals. If you can't take down one friggin Gundam, even if it is the best, then obviously you're not going to win the war because he'll keep showing up and disarming everyone! Plus, the EAF Naturals must view Coordinators as even bigger monsters, even worse threats, after fighting Kira.

He had to kill dozens if not hundreds of people, fight dozens of pointless battles, damn near kill his best friend and nearly die before he started to realize his errors and start ot think they way he does now. He won't allow anyone else to repeat those errors, even though they may be necessary to learn about the horrible side of war.

Oh, and he's too fucking invincible out there (except Shinn scratched him once, maybe once, I believe. And Neo did too in Ep. 32) It pisses me off seeing the "hero" so immortal and so proud and self-righteous.

There, that's my rant. Suck it, suck it dry. Bitches.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chitgoks]

masamuneehs, kira did doubt if his actions are right or not (when he and the captain of archangel talked, he asked her that) but at least kira believes in something and is focused on that certain thing. that's better than being confused (like athrun).

kira does nothing about the false lacus, but the real lacus does, so that already counts (teamwork? he he he). we just havent heard from lacus lately but we will soon.

and yes i agree heine wasnt pretty much disabled, he only lost one arm. dont tell me he doesnt know how to use his other arm. if he doesnt, then he sucks. it's just that he turned his back and realized gaia was behind him too late. sorry for him. and if he was a good pilot, he should have done something to avoid death. or maybe his zaku just isnt powerful that it can detect incoming presence from afar (only near ones?). that's what i think [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[kinggalaxia]

*thinks about it a little*

hmm....Kira = Bush?

*HIDES*

[DDBen]

Originally posted by: Curium

Originally posted by: DDBen
Lets see Kira as not killed a single person in GSD and I'm sorry but you can't prove otherwise as there isn't a single example of this at all.

I'm pretty sure he has killed a few Minerva crew members. When he took out the Tannhauser it was fully charged and ready to fire so it caused a rather large explosion. Also in the episode following it looks like body bags in the background in one scene.

There is absolutely no way to know if anyone was killed when Kira took out the Tannhauser as far as random techs or crew members I would have to say its VERY unlikely that anyone would be sitting around inside a active main cannon of a ship considering its a energy weapon that does not require loading and that the ship simply didn't take that much damage from it.

masamuneehs as far as your comments go lets get a few things straight here. The ArchAngel isn't fighting for either side in the current war they are simply gathering facts and preventing as many deaths as they can in the process. They specifically only stopped battles involving Orb who should be neutral and specifically Kira did so at the request of his sister. Its not like every battle Kira is running around in the middle of trying to stop it by disarming everyone. I simply don't see the ideals being shown on either side here. I believe the archangel actually intended to aid Zaft in disarming the EA so that the war could be avoided but a assassination attempt on your Girlfriend tends to make you not trust someone.

I'm sorry people but Kira is not acting the least bit selfrightous at all in GSD he is fighting specific battles for very specific reasons and is simply trying to protect his loved ones as best he can. As far as Heine goes he got himself killed end of story.

[Deamon007]

Originally posted by: kinggalaxia
*thinks about it a little*

hmm....Kira = Bush?

*HIDES*

Kira try's to stop a war
Bush creates a war to get reelected

*gets a f****g big gun* be vewwy vewwy quiet I'm hunting kinggawaxia [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

(thanks Curium I forgot that)

[Curium]

Originally posted by: Deamon007

Originally posted by: kinggalaxia
*thinks about it a little*

hmm....Kira = Bush?

*HIDES*

Kira try's to stop a war
Bush creates a war to get reelected

*gets a f****g big gun* be vewwy vewwy quiet I'm hunting kinggalaxia [img][/img]

for that joke to work right you need a "w" in the name, like saying kinggawaxia or something.