Gibraltar is in Spain?!?! Well, duh... Now that's quite obvious to everybody who has a hint of common knowledge. But Gibraltar is still the closest ZAFT base while it was a little off from Berlin.
Gibraltar is in Spain?!?! Well, duh... Now that's quite obvious to everybody who has a hint of common knowledge. But Gibraltar is still the closest ZAFT base while it was a little off from Berlin.
Out of curiosity... I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this or noticed this yet but why does it seem like they are just doing the first season of SEED only from the other angle and new characters? I mean first there is the first fight with orb where Kira shows up right on time to blow up Minerva's bow gun just in time. Then there is the whole let me give back our prisoner against the captain's orders story. Then there is the lets take one government completely out of the running to expose the evil of the other government. In the end the little separate faction of good will prevail. Some elements have changed and new twists are fun. But for the past 30+ eps I've been watching the same anime again.
Hehe I guess the cliche thing to say is "History has a way of repeating itself."Originally posted by: Def_X
Out of curiosity... I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this or noticed this yet but why does it seem like they are just doing the first season of SEED only from the other angle and new characters? I mean first there is the first fight with orb where Kira shows up right on time to blow up Minerva's bow gun just in time. Then there is the whole let me give back our prisoner against the captain's orders story. Then there is the lets take one government completely out of the running to expose the evil of the other government. In the end the little separate faction of good will prevail. Some elements have changed and new twists are fun. But for the past 30+ eps I've been watching the same anime again.
I agree with ya Def_X, I think its common occurance with all production companies. The case could be a simple as the writers that run out of ideas, but in some cases they use similar themes because its a safe way to attract the same audience.
Destiny does have its moments, watching Shinn go beserk for all the wrong reasons and seeing his comrades encourage his behavior has been interesting.
DDBen, he's carrying her corpse. Bet you $20 on that.
FelixZeroWhatever your name is. Kira is not a guns-blazing guy at all. While I'll agree that the self righteous snot seems to believe he should be the only one with any sort of military firepower, and that he shoots like ten-frickin-laser-beams-at-a-time, he isn't trying to kill or doing anything more than fighting in the way he believes is best. Problem is, he's leaving half the people without any means to defend themselves (thats what happened to Heine) and totally disrespects anyone who believes that they are fighting for something. Kira seems to believe all the battles are stupid and pointless, that they need to be stopped, not finished. He is sick of fighting, disgusted at war, and unable to turn his back on the fight at the same time. He simply believes that he knows what is best for everyone else. God I hope we see the day where he is proved wrong.
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
masamuneehs, kira did doubt if his actions are right or not (when he and the captain of archangel talked, he asked her that) but at least kira believes in something and is focused on that certain thing. that's better than being confused (like athrun).
kira does nothing about the false lacus, but the real lacus does, so that already counts (teamwork? he he he). we just havent heard from lacus lately but we will soon.
and yes i agree heine wasnt pretty much disabled, he only lost one arm. dont tell me he doesnt know how to use his other arm. if he doesnt, then he sucks. it's just that he turned his back and realized gaia was behind him too late. sorry for him. and if he was a good pilot, he should have done something to avoid death. or maybe his zaku just isnt powerful that it can detect incoming presence from afar (only near ones?). that's what i think [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
kira and the archangel were fighting for what they believe is right. they don't take sides. they balance the situation. unlike minerva crew or ZAFT and EAF they are all like a dog. they follow whatever their master's command, they kill because they were asked to do so. the figther''s like shinn, rey or lunamaria - then neo, stellar and others, they fight and kill innocents without hesitation, coz that's the order.
Interesting....this is the longest topic for an episode discussion, I believe
very much agree with you, Terra. Flawed bastard beats invincible pureheart in my book.
Masa, again, you're right. HOW they're fighting is as counterproductive to ending the war as ZAFT (and Shinn)'s kill-em-all attitude.
actually i think that in Destiny ZAFT has NOT a kill-em-all attitudeOriginally posted by: kinggalaxia
Interesting....this is the longest topic for an episode discussion, I believe
very much agree with you, Terra. Flawed bastard beats invincible pureheart in my book.
Masa, again, you're right. HOW they're fighting is as counterproductive to ending the war as ZAFT (and Shinn)'s kill-em-all attitude.
if there would be one who has it it would be the EAF, i mean whatever purpose did Destroy have?
and Curium, in real life i can't stand short fused punks myself but in Shinn's case it's a refreshing twist from the overall standard of the goody-doody "choir boy" routine
Love is fiction, misery is my only friend
ok, I'm wrong there...Originally posted by: Motteh
actually i think that in Destiny ZAFT has NOT a kill-em-all attitudeOriginally posted by: kinggalaxia
Interesting....this is the longest topic for an episode discussion, I believe
very much agree with you, Terra. Flawed bastard beats invincible pureheart in my book.
Masa, again, you're right. HOW they're fighting is as counterproductive to ending the war as ZAFT (and Shinn)'s kill-em-all attitude.
if there would be one who has it it would be the EAF, i mean whatever purpose did Destroy have?
and Curium, in real life i can't stand short fused punks myself but in Shinn's case it's a refreshing twist from the overall standard of the goody-doody "choir boy" routine
but at least some of us agreee that Shinn is a refreshing main character
I think it would be more accurate to say that "actually i think that in Destiny ZAFT has NOT a kill-em-all attitude yet."Originally posted by: Motteh
actually i think that in Destiny ZAFT has NOT a kill-em-all attitude
Originally posted by: kinggalaxia
Interesting....this is the longest topic for an episode discussion, I believe
very much agree with you, Terra. Flawed bastard beats invincible pureheart in my book.
Masa, again, you're right. HOW they're fighting is as counterproductive to ending the war as ZAFT (and Shinn)'s kill-em-all attitude.
You do realise the Arch Angel isn't fighting to stop the war at this point they are simply fighting to protect whats important to them until they can determine which side they should take.
I do acknowledge that Kira fights for what he believes is right. Same goes for ZAFT and EAF and anybody else. Destiny, and the original Seed too, focus alot on how the politicians and radicals manipulate the public and the soldiers to fight for their (the politicians') agenda. One of the best parts of this series is that it acknowledges that there is a line where "the cause" becomes forgotten and victory becomes both the ends and the means.Originally posted by: Motteh
masamuneehs - kira fights for what he believes to be right
but don't ZAFT and EAF do exactly the same thing?
war is about clashing ideals of 2 or more parties
ZAFT and EAF in this case
Kira and company are just trying to do the best they can to stop it before everyone forgets what eventually started the war and thus fight a battle that has no end
now i don't agree they choose the best way to do it
especially because they seriously lack intel and there's no way for us to know that this "Terminal" they do get intel from isn't "colouring" the information they pass
like Azreal and Rau in Seed who both followed their own respective agendas and so supporting both their respective sides and the enemy by deliberately leaking intel
My problem is when people try to "stop it before everyone forgets why it started." Firstly, what started this war (my speculation here) is 2 crazy bastards, Djibril and Dullindal, taking advantage of peoples' insecurities and differences, rigging a colony drop and responding with impossible demands on PLANT. These are manipulations, inflaming the people and leading them to believe that a vast majority of "The Enemy" are out to kill them, and that they need to strike back. Or that they are superior because "the other side is so barbaric"
So the cause of the war can be debated as not a very good reason to fight.
Why then do I think that Kira is wrong for stopping it?
1. Its the way he goes about it. I admire protecting innocent civilians (from the Destroy) or trying to reveal to a misled army what their old ideals and motives are all about (Orb). But simply going around on a battlefield and disarming everybody, leaving them virtually defenseless is not the way to stop the war. Its like saying, "if we took away all the guns there would be no war!" People will still fight, with swords or sticks or fists, if they believe its worth fighting over. Taking away a person's ability to defend themself on the battlefield, when you're just one guy and one ship is wrong because you can't disarm everyone. When someone dies because he couldn't fight back (Heine) and you were the one that disarmed him, but not the other guy (he did hit Stellar, but she still had an offensive capability) how is that any better than if he had died in normal combat? Its worse!
2. It's his self-righteousness. Ignoring, for a moment, the fact that the war was caused by radicals, that the cause is fueled by propaganda, Kira is basically stopping everyone for fighting for what THEY believe in. Someone fighting to kill all Coordinators or Naturals is bad if they just go about killing indiscriminetley, but what about people fighting to protect their land, or to free prisoners, or just defending themselves after being attacked? Kira doesn't even question or think about why everyone else is fighting. He disrespects what they're fighting for, doesn't even let them do what he's doing...
3. He is missing the real problem. Cutting up everyone's weapons may end this battle, but what about all the other ones being waged around the world? A stalemate caused by Archangel and Freedom in one spot will most likely lead to a larger deployment of troops on both ZAFT and EAF sides to capture it later. He is creating confusion on the battlefield. He does nothing about the Blue Cosmos' propaganda nor ZAFT's false Lacus. He doesn't try to convince anyone to see it his way, he just blows up their rifle and flies off, leaving them pissed as hell and probably more determined than ever to fight next time.
4. He is practicing a double standard. He goes around with one of the most powerful MS ever, making every Zaku and Dagger into sitting ducks. "Just having the strength, or just wanting to do something, alone they are not enough" Wasn't that a theme from the original Seed? He is taking away from others the only means of expression that he employs to make his impact on the world, to further his cause, power. And he is actually showing both sides that they require MORE power if they ever want to achieve their goals. If you can't take down one friggin Gundam, even if it is the best, then obviously you're not going to win the war because he'll keep showing up and disarming everyone! Plus, the EAF Naturals must view Coordinators as even bigger monsters, even worse threats, after fighting Kira.
He had to kill dozens if not hundreds of people, fight dozens of pointless battles, damn near kill his best friend and nearly die before he started to realize his errors and start ot think they way he does now. He won't allow anyone else to repeat those errors, even though they may be necessary to learn about the horrible side of war.
Oh, and he's too fucking invincible out there (except Shinn scratched him once, maybe once, I believe. And Neo did too in Ep. 32) It pisses me off seeing the "hero" so immortal and so proud and self-righteous.
There, that's my rant. Suck it, suck it dry. Bitches.
Humans are different from animals. We must die for a reason. Now is the time for us to regulate ourselves and reclaim our dignity. The one who holds endless potential and displays his strength and kindness to the world. Only mankind has God, a power that allows us to go above and beyond what we are now, a God that we call "possibility".
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Originally posted by: masamuneehs
I do acknowledge that Kira fights for what he believes is right. Same goes for ZAFT and EAF and anybody else. Destiny, and the original Seed too, focus alot on how the politicians and radicals manipulate the public and the soldiers to fight for their (the politicians') agenda. One of the best parts of this series is that it acknowledges that there is a line where "the cause" becomes forgotten and victory becomes both the ends and the means.Originally posted by: Motteh
masamuneehs - kira fights for what he believes to be right
but don't ZAFT and EAF do exactly the same thing?
war is about clashing ideals of 2 or more parties
ZAFT and EAF in this case
Kira and company are just trying to do the best they can to stop it before everyone forgets what eventually started the war and thus fight a battle that has no end
now i don't agree they choose the best way to do it
especially because they seriously lack intel and there's no way for us to know that this "Terminal" they do get intel from isn't "colouring" the information they pass
like Azreal and Rau in Seed who both followed their own respective agendas and so supporting both their respective sides and the enemy by deliberately leaking intel
My problem is when people try to "stop it before everyone forgets why it started." Firstly, what started this war (my speculation here) is 2 crazy bastards, Djibril and Dullindal, taking advantage of peoples' insecurities and differences, rigging a colony drop and responding with impossible demands on PLANT. These are manipulations, inflaming the people and leading them to believe that a vast majority of "The Enemy" are out to kill them, and that they need to strike back. Or that they are superior because "the other side is so barbaric"
So the cause of the war can be debated as not a very good reason to fight.
Why then do I think that Kira is wrong for stopping it?
1. Its the way he goes about it. I admire protecting innocent civilians (from the Destroy) or trying to reveal to a misled army what their old ideals and motives are all about (Orb). But simply going around on a battlefield and disarming everybody, leaving them virtually defenseless is not the way to stop the war. Its like saying, "if we took away all the guns there would be no war!" People will still fight, with swords or sticks or fists, if they believe its worth fighting over. Taking away a person's ability to defend themself on the battlefield, when you're just one guy and one ship is wrong because you can't disarm everyone. When someone dies because he couldn't fight back (Heine) and you were the one that disarmed him, but not the other guy (he did hit Stellar, but she still had an offensive capability) how is that any better than if he had died in normal combat? Its worse!
2. It's his self-righteousness. Ignoring, for a moment, the fact that the war was caused by radicals, that the cause is fueled by propaganda, Kira is basically stopping everyone for fighting for what THEY believe in. Someone fighting to kill all Coordinators or Naturals is bad if they just go about killing indiscriminetley, but what about people fighting to protect their land, or to free prisoners, or just defending themselves after being attacked? Kira doesn't even question or think about why everyone else is fighting. He disrespects what they're fighting for, doesn't even let them do what he's doing...
3. He is missing the real problem. Cutting up everyone's weapons may end this battle, but what about all the other ones being waged around the world? A stalemate caused by Archangel and Freedom in one spot will most likely lead to a larger deployment of troops on both ZAFT and EAF sides to capture it later. He is creating confusion on the battlefield. He does nothing about the Blue Cosmos' propaganda nor ZAFT's false Lacus. He doesn't try to convince anyone to see it his way, he just blows up their rifle and flies off, leaving them pissed as hell and probably more determined than ever to fight next time.
4. He is practicing a double standard. He goes around with one of the most powerful MS ever, making every Zaku and Dagger into sitting ducks. "Just having the strength, or just wanting to do something, alone they are not enough" Wasn't that a theme from the original Seed? He is taking away from others the only means of expression that he employs to make his impact on the world, to further his cause, power. And he is actually showing both sides that they require MORE power if they ever want to achieve their goals. If you can't take down one friggin Gundam, even if it is the best, then obviously you're not going to win the war because he'll keep showing up and disarming everyone! Plus, the EAF Naturals must view Coordinators as even bigger monsters, even worse threats, after fighting Kira.
He had to kill dozens if not hundreds of people, fight dozens of pointless battles, damn near kill his best friend and nearly die before he started to realize his errors and start ot think they way he does now. He won't allow anyone else to repeat those errors, even though they may be necessary to learn about the horrible side of war.
Oh, and he's too fucking invincible out there (except Shinn scratched him once, maybe once, I believe. And Neo did too in Ep. 32) It pisses me off seeing the "hero" so immortal and so proud and self-righteous.
There, that's my rant. Suck it, suck it dry. Bitches.
*thinks about it a little*
hmm....Kira = Bush?
*HIDES*
Kira try's to stop a warOriginally posted by: kinggalaxia
*thinks about it a little*
hmm....Kira = Bush?
*HIDES*
Bush creates a war to get reelected
*gets a f****g big gun* be vewwy vewwy quiet I'm hunting kinggawaxia [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
(thanks Curium I forgot that)
for that joke to work right you need a "w" in the name, like saying kinggawaxia or something.Originally posted by: Deamon007
Kira try's to stop a warOriginally posted by: kinggalaxia
*thinks about it a little*
hmm....Kira = Bush?
*HIDES*
Bush creates a war to get reelected
*gets a f****g big gun* be vewwy vewwy quiet I'm hunting kinggalaxia [img][/img]
I do acknowledge that Kira fights for what he believes is right. Same goes for ZAFT and EAF and anybody else. Destiny, and the original Seed too, focus alot on how the politicians and radicals manipulate the public and the soldiers to fight for their (the politicians') agenda. One of the best parts of this series is that it acknowledges that there is a line where "the cause" becomes forgotten and victory becomes both the ends and the means.
My problem is when people try to "stop it before everyone forgets why it started." Firstly, what started this war (my speculation here) is 2 crazy bastards, Djibril and Dullindal, taking advantage of peoples' insecurities and differences, rigging a colony drop and responding with impossible demands on PLANT. These are manipulations, inflaming the people and leading them to believe that a vast majority of "The Enemy" are out to kill them, and that they need to strike back. Or that they are superior because "the other side is so barbaric"
So the cause of the war can be debated as not a very good reason to fight.
Why then do I think that Kira is wrong for stopping it?
1. Its the way he goes about it. I admire protecting innocent civilians (from the Destroy) or trying to reveal to a misled army what their old ideals and motives are all about (Orb). But simply going around on a battlefield and disarming everybody, leaving them virtually defenseless is not the way to stop the war. Its like saying, "if we took away all the guns there would be no war!" People will still fight, with swords or sticks or fists, if they believe its worth fighting over. Taking away a person's ability to defend themself on the battlefield, when you're just one guy and one ship is wrong because you can't disarm everyone. When someone dies because he couldn't fight back (Heine) and you were the one that disarmed him, but not the other guy (he did hit Stellar, but she still had an offensive capability) how is that any better than if he had died in normal combat? Its worse!
2. It's his self-righteousness. Ignoring, for a moment, the fact that the war was caused by radicals, that the cause is fueled by propaganda, Kira is basically stopping everyone for fighting for what THEY believe in. Someone fighting to kill all Coordinators or Naturals is bad if they just go about killing indiscriminetley, but what about people fighting to protect their land, or to free prisoners, or just defending themselves after being attacked? Kira doesn't even question or think about why everyone else is fighting. He disrespects what they're fighting for, doesn't even let them do what he's doing...
3. He is missing the real problem. Cutting up everyone's weapons may end this battle, but what about all the other ones being waged around the world? A stalemate caused by Archangel and Freedom in one spot will most likely lead to a larger deployment of troops on both ZAFT and EAF sides to capture it later. He is creating confusion on the battlefield. He does nothing about the Blue Cosmos' propaganda nor ZAFT's false Lacus. He doesn't try to convince anyone to see it his way, he just blows up their rifle and flies off, leaving them pissed as hell and probably more determined than ever to fight next time.
4. He is practicing a double standard. He goes around with one of the most powerful MS ever, making every Zaku and Dagger into sitting ducks. "Just having the strength, or just wanting to do something, alone they are not enough" Wasn't that a theme from the original Seed? He is taking away from others the only means of expression that he employs to make his impact on the world, to further his cause, power. And he is actually showing both sides that they require MORE power if they ever want to achieve their goals. If you can't take down one friggin Gundam, even if it is the best, then obviously you're not going to win the war because he'll keep showing up and disarming everyone! Plus, the EAF Naturals must view Coordinators as even bigger monsters, even worse threats, after fighting Kira.
He had to kill dozens if not hundreds of people, fight dozens of pointless battles, damn near kill his best friend and nearly die before he started to realize his errors and start ot think they way he does now. He won't allow anyone else to repeat those errors, even though they may be necessary to learn about the horrible side of war.
Oh, and he's too fucking invincible out there (except Shinn scratched him once, maybe once, I believe. And Neo did too in Ep. 32) It pisses me off seeing the "hero" so immortal and so proud and self-righteous.
There, that's my rant. Suck it, suck it dry. Bitches.[/quote]
to respond to this crazy long post all i have say is what lacus said first you decide then you see it through all the way
Considering how people react towards Shinn, it's not hard to understand why producers stick with the selfless & goodguy heroes... seen from a financial viewpoint, of course.
Myself, I agree that Shinn is a fresh breath of air when it comes to main characters. And I've been saying that since episode 1. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Completely agreed. I love Shinn due to the fact that he's such very 'human character,' as opposed to Kira, the classical naive to the maximum white knight.Originally posted by: Terracosmo
Myself, I agree that Shinn is a fresh breath of air when it comes to main characters.
As for the Episode, it sure was some heavy stuff. The scene in the end with Shinn holding Stellar almost made me shed a tear, which I don't do easily. The action was also great, and it simply made me laugh to see Sting getting owned by cannon fodder as he was trying to retreat. Such a sad thing.
/ No, you warrant no villain's exposition from me.
well Kira is a knight in shining armor type of guy perhaps but to say he's less "human"Originally posted by: Nai
[Completely agreed. I love Shinn due to the fact that he's such very 'human character,' as opposed to Kira, the classical naive to the maximum white knight.
i just like the way Shinn has a very very short fuse
there were some eps in the original Seed where Kira (among others) was like that
i found those eps to be the most satisfying to watch personally
Love is fiction, misery is my only friend
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