I see nothing to dislike about the Lee vs. Gaara fight. Looking forward to owning it in 3 more volumes.
I see nothing to dislike about the Lee vs. Gaara fight. Looking forward to owning it in 3 more volumes.
WOW! You're an idiot. It's quite obvious I know the word is Japanese. Take some reading comprehension classes as you obviously don't have a grasp of the English language.Originally Posted by XanBcoo
Obviously not.
I'll say this for the record, since there's obviously some miscommunication going on here. "Jutsu" is pronounced JOOT-SOO (albeit with shorter, less dipthonged vowels, as I already explained). It is not pronounced JUT-SOO. English pronounciation rules have nothing to do with how this Japanese word is pronounced.
Your beef seems to be with how it is transliterated into Romaji (You're saying it should be Jootsu instead of Jutsu, right??). If that's the case, then I don't care. Take it up with the Hepburn Dictionary if you want. The dub uses the closest sounding pronounciation to the correct one, and that's good enough. Whether or not you think I'm an idiot, you still seem to think "Jutsu" is pronounced JUT-SOO...which is wrong. Like I said, listen to how they say it in Japanese.
Last edited by XanBcoo; Thu, 08-24-2006 at 04:02 PM.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
Who cares how you spell jutsu in english, it's a translation, and it's 'wrong' by definition. They should have just translated it to technique anyway, then it would sound to English speakers the way it sounds to Japanese when it's heard there. They hear the words 'Kage Bunshin no Jutsu' as we would hear 'Shadow Clone Technique'.
I'm guessing they didn't translate it because they thought jutsu sounded 'cooler' you must remember the market in America is all about the hip cool thing, not the right thing. My point is why bother arguing about the wrongness of something that was wrong to attempt in the first place. Would you argue that an athlete who used steroids used the wrong steroids?
Last edited by Yukimura; Thu, 08-24-2006 at 05:04 PM.
That's pretty much what it is. Viz is seriously catering to the fans with this dub. Take that any way you want to.
While you're right that it's useless to argue about this, I'm just trying to make the point that at least they're pronouncing the Japanese terms (like Jutsu, Sharingan, Byakugan, etc) correctly. There are some dubs that can't even do that right.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
1. Yes, I know I made your head hurt. Sorry it's so hard for you to comprehend English, but you eventually you got pretty close.
2. jut-soo or even jit-soo is a much closer pronounciation to the original Japanese pronounciation than JOOT-soo in the English language. So my problem is not the transliteration, but the incorrect pronounciation of the transliteration, NOT the original Japanese pronounciation. I know you have trouble comprehending, so I thought I'd spell that out for you.
Anyways, I don't think the use of Japanese technique names is fan service. I agree that it's to make it "cool" since they are Ninjas, thus in/around Japan.
Would it be cool if Ryu said fireball and dragon punch in Street Fighter than using the Japanese words? What if Goku yells ARTHUR! instead of Kamehameha in British airings of Dragon Ball? It was strange but fitting though that he pronounced Kamehameha properly in the dub unlike the Japanese because the VA sounded like a surfer.
The japanese voice actor mispronounced kamehameha while the english got it correct? Lol, right. Anyway, the only reason they left "jutsu" in the dub is so that they would have little kids running around on the playground screaming "FIREBALL JUTSU!!"
No. It's not. The word for "technique" or "skill" (Jutsu) in Japanese uses the rounded vowel similar to the oo sound in English (like in moon or food) in both syllables. Again, it's similar, not the same. Any other vowel (like the u in put or foot, the u in butt, or the i in hit) is wrong.
Following the rules of Romaji, the letter U is pronounced (and always pronounced) as "oo". Therefore, to pronounce "jutsu" (spelled in Romaji) you use the "oo" sound in place of the letter U's. The very fact that you use "SOO" as a replacement for "-su" at the end of the word shows that you understand this. Why, then, do you think that the first sound "jut" doesn't follow the same principle?? They're the same sound. I never said you had a problem with the Japanese pronounciation. You just seem to think "jutsu" is pronounced JUHT-SOO or even JIT-SOO, and you're wrong.
Hell, I'm not even saying JOOT-SOO is totally correct! But it's the most similar vowel sound to the one the Japanese word uses.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
Well your wrong. Suck a dick.
This statement is so amazingly strange that I just couldn't leave it alone.
1) They aren't using the japanese technique names, they're using the japanese word for technique.
2) Fan service generally implies the creators doing something unessecary for anything other than entertaining the fans, ie not needed for the overall plot but because they think the viewers will see it as cool or appealing...
Note: Point 2 is based on my understanding of the meaning of fanservice, thus if you see fanservice differently I would like to know what your definition is, as my arguments would be weakened and your statement might make more sense to me.
3) The only examples I've ever heard of a dub tring to effectively keep true to it's Japanese roots is the addition of honorifics like Mr. or Lord in place of -san or -sama. Tenjou Tenge even did one better and actaully kept Aya's san's and sama's in verbatim.
4) Naruto doesn't take place in our world...so there is no Japan. It's merely a world imagined by a Japanese person, thus stronly influenced by the Japanese culture. While there are ninja's in that world, they only speak Japanese because that's the language the audience speaks.
EDIT: 5) Since when has coolness been linked to authenticity anyway? This dub isn't for people who watch subs, it's for all the common viewers, both sub viewers and regular folk, and there are a lot more of them than of us.
So to tally up, we have an erroneous statement, a contradiction, a redundant explanation for the underlying cause for the contradiction, and an unreasonable conclusion .
If I remember correctly Kamehameha roughly translates to Turtle Blast Wave...just out of curiousity where did ARTHUR! come from?
Last edited by Yukimura; Fri, 08-25-2006 at 02:27 AM.
Yes, the Japanese VA's mispronounce Kamehameha. The English VA's pronounce it correctly. It is the name of a Hawaiian king, not a Japanese word.
That's a matter of opinion. I care about the word sounding similar to the original vs matching vowels. Jutsu or jitsu more closely matches the Japanese pronounciation than jootsu in my opinion.
Again you show that you do not understand how to read or comprehend the English language. A vowel followed by two consonants is not pronounced in long form. In order to have a long oo sound it would need to be spelled jootsu or jutesu.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepburn...ion#Variations
There are variations in Hepburn. Even with your obsession with the "rounded vowel" you can convert the word to Jötsu.
So again, PLEASE take a reading and comprehension course before trying to argue English pronounciations of written words.
I might be mistaken on the dubbing. I was under the impression they say the full japanese technique names, not just jutsu at the end. I only watch the occasional airing on CN and don't watch very intently.
My idea of fanservice is wanting to please established fans of Naruto who have watched the original or subs, not the new fans they're making from the dubs.
As for Kamehameha, I understand the Turtle Blast Wave translation seeing as he learned it from Kame-sama, but the series is known for it's puns and Kamehameha IS a Hawaiian King's name.
Last edited by JaySee; Fri, 08-25-2006 at 12:07 PM.
I just want to clarify that the Japanese VA did not mispronouce Kamehameha. True enough, it's not a Japanese word, and it sounds the same as a Hawaiian King.
But Kamehameha (かめはめ波) is supposed to be a pun on the word Kame (かめ), which also means turtle (亀), which of course refers to Master Roshi, also known as 亀仙人 which means Kame Sennin (Turtle deity). And the last Ha (波) means wave, which is also the Ha in Hadouken (波動拳）.
Hope I manage the clear this bit up.
"Our hearts are full of memories but not all of them reflect the truth. The heart isn't a recording device. Even important memories change with time. They warp or fade, leaving us with but a shadow of what we hoped to remember." 天の道を行き、全てを司る。これは僕の世界。
I did some googling and apparently the creator's wife thought it up as a Japanese pun on Kame. It's just coincidence that it's an actual name apparently. Accidental double pun! Go figure.So I guess both Japanese and English VAs are pronouncing it right.
English VA's never pronounce anything right. That's the rule. They always make that L sound. Everyone knows L doesn't really exist. It's an imaginary letter.
The second episode of Lee vs Gaara!
Naruto - 49 English Dubbed part 1
Naruto - 49 English Dubbed part 2
Except it's not a matter of opinion. That's how the word is said. If you can't accept that, then this argument isn't going anywhere.
1. Again, we're talking about Japanese, not English. Stop referring to English spelling/pronounciation rules.
2. As I already mentioned, your problem is with how the word is spelled in English (how it is transcribed). I don't care if you want to spell it "jootsu" or "jutesu" because at least then you would be pronouncing it correctly. Saying "Jitsu" or "Juhtsu" is dead wrong. Did you even read my post?
No, you would convert the word to Jutsu with a horizontal line over the "u". That would make the correct pronounciation agree with English pronouncation rules.
It's a fucking Japanese word. For the last time, regular English pronounciation rules do not apply. I'll say it again (perhaps you'll see what I'm saying this time). Your problem is with the fucking spelling.
I agree with this, however I do think Viz was mindful of Naruto's already massive online fanbase. They knew they were getting a hot title, and they dealt with it knowing they needed to sell to not only new fans, but to already existing ones (which is where the profit would come in). That's just speculation though. Who knows why they decided to keep so many Japanese terms.My idea of fanservice is wanting to please established fans of Naruto who have watched the original or subs, not the new fans they're making from the dubs.
Thanks for the link dude. Can't watch it now. I'll post my opinions of it later though. I'm really looking forward to this ep.
<@Terra> he told me this, "man actually meeting terra is so fucking big", and he started crying. Then he bought me hot dogs
How it's spelled and pronounced in English IS a matter of opinion. My argument is that it
is better to get the overall sound of the word versus the proper pronounciation of the vowel (which is impossible). Similar to how Japanese use an "L" sound because they have no "R" sound. There is no short oo sound in English.
Again your failure to read and comprehend English comes into play.
1. I'm talking about English and you're arguing about Japanese. I agree totally with the proper Japanese pronounciation you're talking about, but you can't get it through your thick skull and keep arguing about your own topic that no one is arguing about.
2. Yes, I read your post. You read mine, but your low mental ability apparently can't comprehend it. My argument is that it's spelled and pronounced incorrectly in English, not in Japanese.
Again you miss the point completely.
Wrong. It's a Japanese word, written into a script for a VA in ENGLISH. The VA may or may not know the pronounciations of Japanese vowels. Thus, English spelling and pronounciatiation IS important and DOES apply. Your necessity to cuss and losing your cool reveals your 12 yr old mentality or that you are in fact 12. Maybe you're better off
trying to argue with someone like Mizuchi.
Come now gentlemen, let's not resort to trading petty insults. You both seem to be arguing in circles. You both have good evidence to support your points. We all know that when foreign words are imported to English, they will inevitably gain a different pronunciation, as we have seen happen here. Despite the large number of fans who watch fansubs and are aware of the original Japanese pronunciation, native English speakers will determine the pronunciation based on what seems intuitively right to them in the context of their own language. This wave of popular opinion can't be controlled with any predictable outcome. Languages change how they feel like. What we have here is a case of a new word being introduced into English. As such, there is no 'correct' pronunciation except for the pronunciation given to it by English speakers. Once it starts being used, it becomes a brand new English word, distinct from the original Japanese word. You may be unhappy with it, but you can't control it.
That's pretty much what I've been saying all along. Even when a proper pronouncation is given and spelled out quite accurately, like the word "pokémon" (which is actually 2 English words combined and shortened), English speakers STILL find a way to destroy it.
And for the record, this "argument" and "name calling" wasn't instigated by yours truely. I like all these childish neg reps I've been getting through out this "argument." I even got a blank neg rep. =D
HAHA! I even got a neg rep saying "Don't complain about reps" when I said that I liked it.
Last edited by JaySee; Tue, 08-29-2006 at 05:20 PM.
Jutsu is of Japanese origin and therefore spelled and pronounced in Japanese. Just because a word is used in the English vocabulary, which in this case it is not, the word is still pronounced in the language of origin. For example, cliché, décor and sabotage are all French words which have taken on a meaning in English, they are still pronounced using the French phonology. As opposed to the previous examples Jutsu contains no meaning in English it can only be translated to roughly equate to skill or art. Pokémon, which is not a combination of two English words but rather a combination of the two Japanese words Poketto Monsuta, is a word of Japanese origin that refers to a game made by Nintendo. I would also offer up the notion that there is no "English pronunciation" only the pronunciation used by the speaker of the origins word, which the majority of the English vocabulary is a mixture of Latin, Germanic, and French.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
